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Another Beyer Garratt 0-4-4-0


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Thanks for the pointers, chaps, 

 

image.jpg.e385f056fedb81a06001ac6cd1feb2ff.jpg
 

image.jpg.76f6187d70272cc2dcb68a4dc8f07020.jpg

 

JST connectors araldited to piece of brass stuck to motor with very adhesive double sided foam tape,

Mating socket fitted to wires, two larger ones for the pickups, two smaller for the motor.
Same arrangement for the rear, with the wires routed into the firebox through a U shaped cutout under the cab floor.

 

The use of shrinkwrap allows the wire to be formed to shape whilst hot, it seems to have the good manners to stay in that shape when it cools.  
 

The white pivot is temporary, and the wrong height!

 

I’m going to make a cradle that will fit within the firebox, which will support the decoder & adaptorplatine, the KA cap, and the speaker, and will retain the ashpan, hopefully all retained by a single screw.  With a little luck, I’ll be able to incorporate a firebox glow too, I think that can be synchronised with the firing sounds.   That subassembly can then be slipped out for painting, maintenance, etc.  It would be handy to be able to disconnect the harness that goes through the boiler, but connectors do add complexity and risk of failure, and take up space.  I shall ponder.  I assembled the ashpan yesterday evening.  Like much of this kit, it’s more an aid to scratchbuilding than a set of parts that fit together.  Shall we just say that some fettling and some extra bits of metal were required, but the result is satisfactory?

 

In parallel, I've drilled and tapped holes for the coupler pivots - they will swing from side to side as the real one, but will not be sprung, I soldered up the links on the couplers, and filed the hooks to a better profile too, and will blacken them when finished.  Need to fire up the lathe to make the pivot bushes & screws, but the family are still abed, and it’s noisy, so will do that later.  I’ve also temporarily fitted the buffers, sprung Bagnall ones (with the steps filed off) from Graham at NMRS, who is unfailingly helpful.  They may interfere with the cylinders & valve covers.  That would be a nuisance, but solutions are possible if it is the case.
 

still pondering valve gear...

 

atb

Simon

 

 

 

 

 

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I used Stelfox castings for the expansion link - which were every nice. I dare say thesearen'y available any more, but something similar must be available. I also used their castings for crosshead, slide bars, and valve guides - but the rest were the etchings from the kit (silver soldered).

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I’ll try something simpler first.  The prototype’s buffers have backing plates to move them forward from the planks.  
 

how difficult can it be to make four identical square plates about a millimetre thick,  with central holes?  
 

if when I can do that, I’ll try the con rods.  
 

I can continue to use the coupling rods I have, but they’d be nicer in steel, with oil pots, etc., so I guess they might be #3.
 

then the valve gear proper...

 

cheers

Simon

 

 

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Here are a few photos from the engine build


F6AC6A15-F096-44D5-83CE-9F6EA6456875.jpeg.505b3f1b14d8c59f924e8a4979d0dbd3.jpeg

 

FED9E316-AE5C-4CD6-BA93-3F84A79E9A9D.jpeg.52e55d40f80eb54de601292fb1c7d66a.jpeg

 

18C17A8D-3357-40DE-9727-BEE9B69A46CA.jpeg.28243ee95cebecd4af2ffd91145787a4.jpeg

 


 

A73C3FB3-FAAE-4039-8673-123C7E60E0E0.jpeg.0abaeafad5ed303cb7bf46e2081a0c5c.jpeg

 

The frames, buffer planks, pivot plate, motion bracket and cylinder formers are milled from 1.2 mm engraving brass.  The inner frames provide the hornways, and were aligned with the outers by use of the 1mm wires for the brake pivots.  

 

I’m much impressed with the split axle pickup.  This works well, and is easy to hide, perhaps more of a benefit with a bar-framed loco than with full depth plate frames, but is definitely less hassle than through-frame or backscratchers.  If I do it again, I’ll use all-metal wheels, because there’s something daft about de-insulating insulated wheels...

 

you can’t see it here but I milled up a couple of blocks about 4.5 mm thick, which I drilled to take 0.8mm piano wire springs.  These are mounted below the pivot support plates, you can see the screws in some of the other photos..This is not CSB because it’s an 0-4-0 chassis, It could be done but is more work; it’s a pair of unequal cantilevers. the wire is straight, which avoids issues with ensuring bends are accurate and matched, and the rear axle has much shorter (= stiffer) springs than the leading axle, hence controls the rock from side to side.  So far, it seems to cope with any track irregularities I can throw at it, but I didn’t build the track to pose challenges!
 

atb

Simon
 

 

 

 

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On 14/06/2020 at 14:55, Simond said:

Here are a few photos from the engine build


F6AC6A15-F096-44D5-83CE-9F6EA6456875.jpeg.505b3f1b14d8c59f924e8a4979d0dbd3.jpeg

 

FED9E316-AE5C-4CD6-BA93-3F84A79E9A9D.jpeg.52e55d40f80eb54de601292fb1c7d66a.jpeg

 

18C17A8D-3357-40DE-9727-BEE9B69A46CA.jpeg.28243ee95cebecd4af2ffd91145787a4.jpeg

 


 

A73C3FB3-FAAE-4039-8673-123C7E60E0E0.jpeg.0abaeafad5ed303cb7bf46e2081a0c5c.jpeg

 

The frames, buffer planks, pivot plate, motion bracket and cylinder formers are milled from 1.2 mm engraving brass.  The inner frames provide the hornways, and were aligned with the outers by use of the 1mm wires for the brake pivots.  

 

I’m much impressed with the split axle pickup.  This works well, and is easy to hide, perhaps more of a benefit with a bar-framed loco than with full depth plate frames, but is definitely less hassle than through-frame or backscratchers.  If I do it again, I’ll use all-metal wheels, because there’s something daft about de-insulating insulated wheels...

 

you can’t see it here but I milled up a couple of blocks about 4.5 mm thick, which I drilled to take 0.8mm piano wire springs.  These are mounted below the pivot support plates, you can see the screws in some of the other photos..This is not CSB because it’s an 0-4-0 chassis, It could be done but is more work; it’s a pair of unequal cantilevers. the wire is straight, which avoids issues with ensuring bends are accurate and matched, and the rear axle has much shorter (= stiffer) springs than the leading axle, hence controls the rock from side to side.  So far, it seems to cope with any track irregularities I can throw at it, but I didn’t build the track to pose challenges!
 

atb

Simon
 

Oh!! Those frames look nice!! Much better than mine! They are probably symmetrical for a start!

 

I made my valve gear from the etchings  supplied, slightly modified. They worked out alright, with a bit of work.

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Thanks Phil,

 

on the up side, the frames are symmetrical, straight and square (and far stronger than any model will ever require!).  On the down side, the motion plate, the buffer beam and rear transverse plate are rather too thick to ideally represent the prototype.
 

if I were making a habit of making these things, I’d use thinner material for those bits, but the motion plate would have to be perhaps double thickness in the middle, due to the expense of sub 1mm slot drills (and my propensity for snapping them...). (And if I were smarter, I’d have incorporated a few more holes in the original machining too, but then again, if my Auntie had had a pair, she’d have been my Uncle!)


having obtained the Woodpecker micro CNC mill, I’m quite keen to see if I can make the motion in steel.  As Giles suggests, it’ll likely be a somewhat slow job, but material is cheap, and it can sit on the floor next to the bench cutting the second, third and fourth parts, whilst I’m doing something more interesting.  I haven’t taken the bold step of throwing away the kit parts!


more soon

Simon
 

 

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Little bit of a fight with the rear engine electrical connector, but it’s been relocated, and the wiring re-routed, and fingers crossed, it’ll all work!

 

image.jpg.880b7137579015f615f14e4d761cc3e9.jpg

the plate to which the plug was glued has been inverted so it is nearly flush with the top of the motor.  
 

image.jpg.fc543ee5498cc1802b0ccb90218147d4.jpg

 

which means the tank top / coal space floor can be fixed in place, and I can then move onto fitting the vents, which are not well supplied in the kit!  

image.jpg.3b2dddac61cf57c862950865c21b2c79.jpg

 

on which subject, if anyone has a good photo of the coal space, it would be most welcome!

 

More soon!

 

Simon

 

 

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Found a photo, which shows, as I suspected, a pair of riveted “turrets” to support the tank vents.  These, and the vents, are supplied as w/m castings, which won’t do, both are too small, and the turrets have no detail on them.  Ideally I want some K&S square tube but I don’t think I’ve got any of an appropriate size to make the vents (says he, wistfully thinking of going to a railway show and pending money face to face rather than over the www) so I’ll have to see what I do have.  The turrets will be a sheet metal exercise.

 

the buffer spacers.  They’re essentially a square block with rounded corners and a hole in the middle.  The question is how best to make them:
1. I could use the CNC to cut them from sheet. As the material will be 1.2mm brass, I could saw a strip and mill them on the end of it.

2. Alternatively, turn a bit of rod and drill it in the lathe, and part off washers which I can then hold on a mandrel whilst the CNC does the square

3. I could even use the manual mill to square up the turned rod before parting off, and file the corners.  
4. As 2 but “solder chuck” to hold them whilst milling
 

I think 2 is the most promising.  I’ll get to try 1 and 4 with the valve gear.

 

atb

Simon

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Photo of coal space here

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/beyer-peacock-company-works-no-6841-william-francis-0-4-00-4-0t/

 

A bit more cleaning up needed, and vents still required, but turrets better than the rather plain whitemetal lumps provided.  
 

there should be a riveted strip around the base of each turret.  I need to find some suitable strip to do that.

 

you can also see where I blanked off the non-prototypical hole for the lubricator (it’s on the other side, where there is also a hole - the one on this side is on the front engine!)


image.jpg.a89a0cd105418a9e4047f09e929f1ad0.jpg

 

I’ve has to put the milling job on hold, as the throat of the CNC is not deep enough, to allow for the length of the cutter, the ER collet holder and the vice.  I’ve ordered some more 2020 slot 5 extrusion, and will modify the miller to give a greater workpiece height.

 

I keep chewing over creating a universal multi-axis table that can carry lots of different tools, but I don’t need it at the moment, and it would be a lot of work.  I’ll stick with the woodpecker for now.

 

atb

Simon

 

 


 

 

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50030503387_b14007f8e2_k.jpgBUNKER 2 by giles favell, on Flickr

 

50029684638_9938cf9319_k.jpgBUNKER by giles favell, on Flickr

 

Here's more of the Bressingham loco taken more than thirty years ago when I was going to do a kit with Gladiator.  I think I have forty or fifty (dodgy) shots if various details  - but probably never of exactly what you need.... let me know.....

 

(There is a very slight flat ledge at the top of the coal plate, which gives the reinforcing angle something to sit on - i never worried, because of the coal!)

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Thanks Giles,

 

I’ve done the vents, I had some square tube which is a bit larger than the apparently undernourished w/m castings that came with the kit.  Looking at your photos, the vents are actually rectangular in plan, and they, and the castings, have what appear to be two slots, or a handle, recessed into the top.  I drew a line.  I could mill the slots, or more accurately, could have milled the slots before I soldered them onto the tanks, but I wasn’t sure that it would be a worthwhile risk - there’s always the chance of making a bo77ox of what you’ve done for a small detail,, and...  well, maybe I should have but I haven’t...

 

photo of them in production,

 

B1967784-B825-468D-A6D7-F21CAD6CF188.jpeg.88f823d14502e832211164f09fe57c33.jpeg
 

and fitted


34D151E8-3487-402C-9C9B-9AB68034F7B1.jpeg.be1369df77b0b00743d741499cfa0539.jpeg

 

the flanges around the vent tops were sized by the simple expedient of placing a strip of scrap etch on the square tube, and filed the flange down until the thickness of the etch stopped further progress, turn 90 degrees, repeat three times, and gently round the corners.

 

the vents were then soldered on using the resistance probe, and solder paste.

 

the tanks are in the ultrasonic at the moment, and once cleaned & dried, there’ll be no more modelling tonight, as I’m rather replete following an excellent Father’s Day roast, courtesy of MrsD.  Young Sir and little Miss are not here, but the bottle of Highland Park they have kindly provided will be sampled later in the evening!  I shall raise a glass to their good taste.

 

I've been pondering the ashpan, and how I will retain it to the firebox.  No conclusions yet.  That might be a job for tomorrow evening.  There are a couple of vent pipes to add, and the lifting rings, and the shunter’s’ handrails, that’ll finish the tanks, so I might try to get them sorted over the next couple of evenings.

 

atb

Simon

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I'm so sorry - I hadn't realised that you were under a misapprehension ! Although re-reading your posts does make that quite clear.... sorry!

 

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On 21/06/2020 at 15:50, Simond said:

I've been pondering the ashpan, and how I will retain it to the firebox.  No conclusions yet.  That might be a job for tomorrow evening.  There are a couple of vent pipes to add, and the lifting rings, and the shunter’s’ handrails, that’ll finish the tanks, so I might try to get them sorted over the next couple of evenings.

 

atb

Simon

 

Here's how I fited the ashpan to the lower firebox. I'd cut them off from the lower firebox side eteches, as per Giles' suggestion and had to refit them. This is how I did it.

 

 

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Thanks Phil,

 

I’ve built the ashpan as a separate assembly, and the firebox no longer has a bottom, which will allow me build a subassembly of the decoder & speaker, which, with the ashpan, can be bolted in from below.   I hope...

 

tried to make new lifting lugs for the tanks today.  Nothing to see here folks.  Will have another try tomorrow, perhaps.  It’s only brass...

 

atb

Simon

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  • 3 months later...

I’ve made a little progress for the first time in months.

 

I sorted out proper pivots to replace the plastic temporary ones, and I’ve finally fixed the ashpan to the underside.  

 

I still need to finish the fixings on the rear pivot, and may adapt it further as the 6BA nut is a b to fit, whereas the 8BA on the front is rather easier.  Should be easy enough to modify as it’s two brass bits soldered together, I’ll just unsolder them, drill in the lathe, and then solder back together.  Even a meerkat could do it.


I also need to fix the smokebox down, and probably the cab too.

 

Having got the  ashpan fitted, I can now think how to use the boiler as a soundbox, and get the decoder, stay-alive and speaker installation sorted.

Then engine details, mainly valve gear & brakes, but there are some pipes & stuff too, then the cab, and boiler furniture, and undergubbins, and I reckon sometime in 2022, paint...

 

let’s not get carried away, here are a few photos of where we are at

 

image.jpg.7c1238e06ca3764520ee5c295c33283b.jpg

 

image.jpg.c54cb5513f5d40f8d2541c9c86a888f0.jpg

image.jpg.6fc16eaebd032727c770275f7d46c1bb.jpg

 

image.jpg.003f5022a61c625e95c9c952dc605250.jpg

 

More soon

keep well!

Simon

 

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thanks Giles

 

yes, they are rigid and square, which helps, I guess!  And quite heavy.

 

reflecting on my progress yesterday, I think a small revision is on the cards tonight, I think I will modify the front fixation of the ashpan so it is on the frames rather than the firebox, and arrange that the boiler/firebox/cab assy lifts of for access to the electronics.  Currently the ashpan has a pin through a vertical bit of brass hanging down from the front of the firebox, and a screw into the floor under the cab, but I'll revise it to eliminate the fixations to the firebox itself.  This will avoid having issues with accessibility once the brakes and steam pipes are installed.  

 

If I'd thought a bit longer I'd have done it that way first, but then again, if I were still thinking about it, we'd not be discussing it now :)

 

I am happy with the pivots, as you'll see I inverted them so the actual swivel is down at the motor bogie, rather than up under the footplate - it's 7.2mm difference, I doubt it has any practical effect, but will reduce any tendency of the bogies to "wheelie".

 

I will see how we go with making valve gear at some point.  I ordered some of the D cutters you suggested but they have not yet arrived.

 

atb

Simon

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That all sound extremely sensible......

 

I find that the D cutters are usually a 'nominal' size (The box of 0.8mm are actually more like 0.9mm) so with a new box I tend to cut a test square and measure it to check, and adjust the drawing or tool paths to compensate. (Not trying to teach my Grandmother etc........!)

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