Dapol's new Class 68 locomotives

[classy52]

This discussion around viability of further runs of the TPE 68 is quite interesting and whether Accurascale have enough pre-orders to make money off their two Mk5 sets remains to be seen thus it makes perfect sense for Dapol to test the water before committing, there may be quite a few who may come out of the closet and pre-order the one TPE 68 or both as I have done.

Now I would throw up a huge assumption to say over 90% of those customers who all snapped up 68019 'Brutus' will purchase an Accurascale TPE Mk5 set and too be honest @£225 for a new tooled 5 coach set it is a bargain in my books that could not be possibly replicated or matched by anyone else at this point in time.

I think Dapol & Accurascale are a match made in heaven with the TPE 68 & TPE Mk5 coach sets and quite confident Dapol will go ahead with their next run of TPE 68's which in turn will boost sales for Accurascale because anyone buying the TPE 68 will purchase a set or two of TPE Mk5's and again it is only my assumption...but why wouldn't you?

[YesTor]

On 28/01/2020 at 19:35, TomScrut said:

It's a funny one. Hornby can do runs of red class 60s year in year out (2 this year!) without bother...

 

Ummm, not so sure that's accurate... we had to wait something like five years after DB red 60s first appeared on the network before Hornby even thought about doing a DB version... and those are still available for sale even now.  This year's announcement is only the second time a DB red 60 has been done, and in fact more accurately only the first time with the later DB only branding.

 

cheers
Al

Edited January 30, 2020 by YesTor

[adb968008]

Dont want to dampen the party, but a retailer I asked last week suggested interest for the TPE 68 was less than they were expecting, making two wasnt resulting in two potential sales, but split orders of one or the other. They were happy to supply me with it, should I order, but weren't expecting a rush at the door... Rocket on the other hand however...

 

just saying, could be isolated. no idea how that plays out nationally.

Edited January 30, 2020 by adb968008

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Just now, adb968008 said:

Dont want to dampen the party, but a retailer I asked last week suggested interest for the TPE 68 was less than they were expecting, making two wasnt resulting in two potential sales, but split orders of one or the other. They were happy to supply me with it, should I order, but weren't expecting a rush at the door.

 

Thank you for letting us know. 

 

Out of interest which retailer were you speaking to? I'm just interested to know if the retailer was a large retailer thus likely more known and may have received more pre-orders/expressions of interests than smaller retailers. 

 

I understand what they and you are saying. I would assume that most won't need x2 TPE 68s because to have them both operational in a prototypical fashion would mean buying two sets of MK5s at £225 each. Off the top of my head that's around £722 for those four items. Personally, I don't think that many will spend that amount of money on TPE stock/trains alone, especially this year when we have various newly tooled models arriving: Bachmann 20/3s, Accurascale 37s. Heljan 47s, Accurascale 55s, Hattons 66s, Accurascale 92s and Bachmann 158s just to name a few that will also be bought by many modern image modellers, thus their money will have to stretch further to afford these other items. 

[adb968008]

It was a smaller retailer, but local enough to TPE.

 

its worth considering, limited edition Rocket of 1500 looks like its going to be the biggest hit of the year, the GA one not far behind it.

 

Think about the number.. theres not a lot of difference between 1000 and 1500, or 1500 and 2000. But Hornby has chose a number that they must feel is both safe to achieve, maximises revenues and a headline grabber... then put the rest to a GA batch... if they felt 1000, 2000, 5000 would have the same impact, thats what they would have chosen... 30 years ago it wasn't unusual to find limited editions were in range of 3000-5000 models.

 

So those suggesting numbers of 2000-3000 TPE 68’s could be way off in their thinking... I cant see a TPE 68 being more popular than Rocket, especially not on a second run, even with TPE mk5’s.

 

Ive no idea the numbers that would make it work, but if I was strained to a guess, my guess would be 500 of each, and if I were to guess the demand, I’d say the biggest orders would be the usual large retailers, who cater to the “modelling informed”... but the rest of the nations model shops I suspect it would be a just another re-release to their community, much the same as any other, not a specific shelf flyer like Rocket looks set to be.

 

I was recently privvy to pre-order quantities of a very large retailer, who showed me a screen during an enquiry about a yet to be released new model I was waiting for, the screen inadvertently displaying that data.. I was shocked by the number.. it was much lower than I would have ever guessed... the hobby isn't as big as people think.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

28 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

I was recently privvy to pre-order quantities of a very large retailer, who showed me a screen during an enquiry about a yet to be released new model I was waiting for, the screen inadvertently displaying that data.. I was shocked by the number.. it was much lower than I would have ever guessed... the hobby isn't as big as people think.

 

 

I do wonder in part about your last statement. We are now incredibly blessed to have a huge choice, covering models and eras that a few years ago we would never have even dreamt of getting in RTR form. This must have a diluting effect where the number of models sold of each is less than it would have been in the past. I think back to a few years ago and, in diesel form there was 08, 20, 24, 25, 37, 47, 50, HST (probably missed one or two) and that was it. Now look....

 

Roy

Edited January 30, 2020 by Roy Langridge

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

50 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It was a smaller retailer, but local enough to TPE.

 

its worth considering, limited edition Rocket of 1500 looks like its going to be the biggest hit of the year, the GA one not far behind it.

 

Think about the number.. theres not a lot of difference between 1000 and 1500, or 1500 and 2000. But Hornby has chose a number that they must feel is both safe to achieve, maximises revenues and a headline grabber... then put the rest to a GA batch... if they felt 1000, 2000, 5000 would have the same impact, thats what they would have chosen... 30 years ago it wasn't unusual to find limited editions were in range of 3000-5000 models.

 

So those suggesting numbers of 2000-3000 TPE 68’s could be way off in their thinking... I cant see a TPE 68 being more popular than Rocket, especially not on a second run, even with TPE mk5’s.

 

Ive no idea the numbers that would make it work, but if I was strained to a guess, my guess would be 500 of each, and if I were to guess the demand, I’d say the biggest orders would be the usual large retailers, who cater to the “modelling informed”... but the rest of the nations model shops I suspect it would be a just another re-release to their community, much the same as any other, not a specific shelf flyer like Rocket looks set to be.

 

I was recently privvy to pre-order quantities of a very large retailer, who showed me a screen during an enquiry about a yet to be released new model I was waiting for, the screen inadvertently displaying that data.. I was shocked by the number.. it was much lower than I would have ever guessed... the hobby isn't as big as people think.

 

 

That's interesting. 

 

I did have doubts though that they would be popular enough to produce two more TPE 68s, when one has already been produced even with the MK5s now available. If they haven't been as popular as anticipated I think this may be because these locos and coaches will only operate on a specific line and routes, thus they are restricted to the north. So anyone who doesn't model the north and doesn't wish to won't be interested in any locos or coaches. Another reason I think they might not have been popular is just due to money. Alone the 68s and MK5s are very reasonably priced but 2020 is a really big year for modern image modellers, with so many newly tooled models appearing and thus many won't be able to afford everything they want to buy and sacrifices will have to be made. I would say this makes it more likely those wanting these locos and coaches will just opt for one set costing £361 as opposed to £722 for two sets. 

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I do wonder in part about your last statement. We are now incredibly blessed to have a huge choice, covering models and eras that a few years ago we would never have even dreamt of getting in RTR form. This must have a diluting effect where the number of models sold of each is less than it would have been in the past. I think back to a few years ago and, in diesel form there was 08, 20, 24, 25, 37, 47, 50, HST (probably missed one or two) and that was it. Now look....

 

Roy

 

I think that could well be it  There's just so much coming and some fairly high ticket items , that money is getting rationed . I would like a Hattons 66,  An LNER Azuma and a 7 car APT . I've got my order in for Rocket already and a TPE Mk5 set as I was fortunate to get TPE 68 last year  . But I', thinking that's all a bit much to spend on a hobby , so I'll be making some choices this year based on whats likely to be around in the future

 

I would have thought there would be enough orders for a TPE 68 though .  Brutus sold out very quickly and , of course we have Accurascale Mk5s to look forward to. Not so sure about further Scotrail editions , even though I would quite like one , as there have already been at least 2 runs of them and the real things seem to have short contracts ahead of them.

 

I still rate the 68 as the best diesel model available.

 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

I think that could well be it  There's just so much coming and some fairly high ticket items , that money is getting rationed . I would like a Hattons 66,  An LNER Azuma and a 7 car APT . I've got my order in for Rocket already and a TPE Mk5 set as I was fortunate to get TPE 68 last year  . But I', thinking that's all a bit much to spend on a hobby , so I'll be making some choices this year based on whats likely to be around in the future

 

I would have thought there would be enough orders for a TPE 68 though .  Brutus sold out very quickly and , of course we have Accurascale Mk5s to look forward to. Not so sure about further Scotrail editions , even though I would quite like one , as there have already been at least 2 runs of them and the real things seem to have short contracts ahead of them.

 

I still rate the 68 as the best diesel model available.

 

 

I'm in the same boat. 

 

This year I would like a few Bachmann 20/3s, a few Accurascale 37s, a couple of Hattons 66s, Hornby Network Rail and ScotRail MK2s, a rake of TPE MK5s and the KUA twin pack. Not to mention I have pre-ordered both of the TPE 68s in question. This wishlist has already been cut back but I could do with making further reductions because if I don't that's the best part of £4000 in one year on a hobby. It's just becoming more and more difficult because the more I remove from my wishlist the closer I am to the 20/3s and 37/6s of which I definitely want because I have waited years for them. It's typical all of these years I have been waiting for these items that everything is due to arrive in the same year. 

 

I agree, the Dapol 68 is fantastic. I have several of them and they are the best locos I have ever bought. 

[TomScrut]

4 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

If they haven't been as popular as anticipated I think this may be because these locos and coaches will only operate on a specific line and routes, thus they are restricted to the north. So anyone who doesn't model the north and doesn't wish to won't be interested in any locos or coaches.

 

One thing I would say though is quite a lot of people just buy what they like, and one thing that can be said about the 68/mk5s is that they are a short, prototypical, loco hauled train in what I think is one of the best, if not the best, livery on the network.

 

But that doesn't mean everybody wants one.

 

I will be very disappointed if they don't do them.

Edited January 30, 2020 by TomScrut

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

58 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

One thing I would say though is quite a lot of people just buy what they like, and one thing that can be said about the 68/mk5s is that they are a short, prototypical, loco hauled train in what I think is one of the best, if not the best, livery on the network.

 

But that doesn't mean everybody wants one.

 

I will be very disappointed if they don't do them.

 

I completely agree. Originally I bought Freightliner only models, now I have a large DRS fleet as well, plus some other locos and operators. I even now have a GWR HST set which I never thought I would buy any passenger stock. I have seen people from various areas of the country pre-ordering the TPE MK5s from Accurascale so as you say people do buy and model what they want, which is sensible because otherwise you just end up restricting yourself and not buying the stuff you want. 

 

I will be disappointed as well. Even if I cancel one of the two pre-orders I have I would really like a second one to go with 019. But, I am sure next year or in 2022 when the DRS liveried 68s have sold out with retailers the demand will resurface for the DRS 'Swoosh' livery, thus Dapol may just announce some additional TPE 68s with another one or two DRS 68s, as they have done previously and they may not go down the expressions of interest route. Certainly from when I have spoken to Dapol they have always said they will make all of the running numbers of the 68s, in what livery etc who knows but Dapol do plan to keep producing the 68s for the foreseeable future. So if we don't manage to get 023 & 032 produced this year, they or other TPE 68 numbers will be produced at some stage in the future. 

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

I completely agree. Originally I bought Freightliner only models, now I have a large DRS fleet as well, plus some other locos and operators. I even now have a GWR HST set which I never thought I would buy any passenger stock. I have seen people from various areas of the country pre-ordering the TPE MK5s from Accurascale so as you say people do buy and model what they want, which is sensible because otherwise you just end up restricting yourself and not buying the stuff you want. 

 

I will be disappointed as well. Even if I cancel one of the two pre-orders I have I would really like a second one to go with 019. But, I am sure next year or in 2022 when the DRS liveried 68s have sold out with retailers the demand will resurface for the DRS 'Swoosh' livery, thus Dapol may just announce some additional TPE 68s with another one or two DRS 68s, as they have done previously and they may not go down the expressions of interest route. Certainly from when I have spoken to Dapol they have always said they will make all of the running numbers of the 68s, in what livery etc who knows but Dapol do plan to keep producing the 68s for the foreseeable future. So if we don't manage to get 023 & 032 produced this year, they or other TPE 68 numbers will be produced at some stage in the future. 

 

Yes, whilst I aim to only model present day York area I do allow artistic license for stuff I like. I keep flirting with ScotRail 68/mk2fs and Inter7City rakes. I'd also have a 397 if anybody did one.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes, whilst I aim to only model present day York area I do allow artistic license for stuff I like. I keep flirting with ScotRail 68/mk2fs and Inter7City rakes. I'd also have a 397 if anybody did one.

 

You're very much like me. 

 

I opted to model both ScotRail 68s with a rake of Hornby ScotRail MK2fs. I've chosen to leave the ScotRail HST for the time being just because I can't afford it this year. Yes I would really like a TPE 802 and 397. I fear though that we could be waiting a few years at least for a 397 given that this is brand new class of loco, their are only x12 of them currently, all in the same livery and working the same/similar routes/diagrams. I mean we still haven't seen a 180 or 185 in OO Gauge and look how many years old they are now. 

[TomScrut]

22 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

You're very much like me. 

 

I opted to model both ScotRail 68s with a rake of Hornby ScotRail MK2fs. I've chosen to leave the ScotRail HST for the time being just because I can't afford it this year. Yes I would really like a TPE 802 and 397. I fear though that we could be waiting a few years at least for a 397 given that this is brand new class of loco, their are only x12 of them currently, all in the same livery and working the same/similar routes/diagrams. I mean we still haven't seen a 180 or 185 in OO Gauge and look how many years old they are now. 

 

The only thing that might work in the favour of the 397 is if there is anything common with the 195 and 331 although I don't think there will be much

[Roy Langridge]

I made the comment about the sales of models being diluted not so much on the basis of cost (which a few posts have referenced) but more that there is now such a wide choice nobody will buy everything. Indeed, some people in the past will have compromised on their purchases to eras / models which may not have been their first choice simply because their preference was not available. Now we have models coming such as the Hattons Genesis stock - some people who would have loved to model that era now will, but perhaps no longer purchasing their second choice. In total the same number of models may be sold, even slightly more, but the number of each particular model will be less (if that makes sense).

Roy

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

The only thing that might work in the favour of the 397 is if there is anything common with the 195 and 331 although I don't think there will be much

 

Yes it is a shame to an extent that the 397 is considerably different to other units, thus no part of the manufacturing process can be used to create other classes of loco at the same time. It's the same situation really with the 195 & 331. Whilst their are considerably more of the prototypes of these units they are restricted to the north and so far have only worn one livery for one operator. Although with Northern Rail becoming nationalised from March 1st and becoming Northern Trains Limited maybe their will be some vinyl/branding. If so the Northern Rail livery could easily be the shortest lived livery on the 195s and 331s ever when compared to other modern image stock. 

 

38 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

I made the comment about the sales of models being diluted not so much on the basis of cost (which a few posts have referenced) but more that there is now such a wide choice nobody will buy everything. Indeed, some people in the past will have compromised on their purchases to eras / models which may not have been their first choice simply because their preference was not available. Now we have models coming such as the Hattons Genesis stock - some people who would have loved to model that era now will, but perhaps no longer purchasing their second choice. In total the same number of models may be sold, even slightly more, but the number of each particular model will be less (if that makes sense).

Roy

 

I understand your point but regarding specifically these two TPE 68s that Dapol are asking for expressions of interest in, because they have only announced two running numbers their may well be less of each loco but I would bet their will be a considerably high MOQ/minimum order quantity that the factory will insist on just because this run if it goes ahead will be a single livery production run. It's very rare that any manufacturer offers this and makes it work. I have often thought about it in terms of Bachmann and their Class 70s. They have produced six in Freightliner livery so far but only one in Colas livery. This is most likely because five out of the six Freightliner variants were produced before the final sixth variant of Freightliner and the first variant of Colas. Thus now Bachmann can't quickly keep churning out more Colas 70s even though the demand is likely to be their because what would they produce them with? The last Freightliner version produced was 70015 and this arrived with retailers nearly two years ago and their are still some available with retailers. This would suggest that the demand has been met for the Freightliner 70s but not so much for the Colas 70s. The situation is similar to Dapol and their 68s because they have already produced eight in DRS liveries alone without accounting for other liveries, thus the demand for the main and most popular livery has already been met, unfortunately before Accurascale announced their TPE MK5s. In these situations for manufacturers it's often just the timing between the prototypes and models not sitting quite right for one reason for another, which makes it difficult to produce more models of particular liveries even if they deem demand to be their. 

[TomScrut]

Yep, I want a Colas 70 too!

[TomScrut]

I wonder how long it will be before they say something about the run of TPEs?

 

I suppose the answer to that probably lies with whether they have spoken to China before ordering closed to find out what they needed to know or if they are having to wait until after New Year and the virus issue subsides.

Edited February 4, 2020 by TomScrut

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

On 31/01/2020 at 07:31, TomScrut said:

Yep, I want a Colas 70 too!

 

That makes two of us. I really do like the Colas livery. 

 

2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

I wonder how long it will be before they say something about the run of TPEs?

 

I suppose the answer to that probably lies with whether they have spoken to China before ordering closed to find out what they needed to know or if they are having to wait until after New Year and the virus issue subsides.

 

I have emailed Dapol yesterday, asking when we will find out if the TPE 68s will be produced or not. I haven't received a reply as of yet, but when I do I will post the response on here to let yourself and others know. 

 

I have seen recently on some other forums that people are wanting to see more DRS 'Swoosh' 68s produced. Then I checked on the Dapol website, Hattons, Rails & Kernow and all four still have several 004, 026 & 034 in DRS liveries available to buy and that doesn't include the smaller retailers. DRS also still have stocks of 68001 at £200. 

 

With this in mind if the TPE variants are not produced in batch four by themselves without further DRS liveried 68s then I doubt that we will see further TPE variants for the foreseeable future. So here's hoping that 023 & 032 get a single liveried production batch of their own. 

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

That makes two of us. I really do like the Colas livery. 

 

 

I have emailed Dapol yesterday, asking when we will find out if the TPE 68s will be produced or not. I haven't received a reply as of yet, but when I do I will post the response on here to let yourself and others know. 

 

I have seen recently on some other forums that people are wanting to see more DRS 'Swoosh' 68s produced. Then I checked on the Dapol website, Hattons, Rails & Kernow and all four still have several 004, 026 & 034 in DRS liveries available to buy and that doesn't include the smaller retailers. DRS also still have stocks of 68001 at £200. 

 

With this in mind if the TPE variants are not produced in batch four by themselves without further DRS liveried 68s then I doubt that we will see further TPE variants for the foreseeable future. So here's hoping that 023 & 032 get a single liveried production batch of their own. 

 

026 is an odd one as it is very niche with its livery timescale isn't it. The other ones, well I'd probably have another swoosh one in due course to go with 034 but not high on my priorities given how much other stuff is on the way this year.

[adb968008]

I should point out theres variations in TPE livery on class 68’s, especially around the vertical lines at the cab ends, quite dramatic angular differences.

 

There was a thread on here a while back.

Edited February 5, 2020 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

24 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I should point out theres variations in TPE livery on class 68’s, especially around the vertical lines at the cab ends, quite dramatic angular differences.

 

There was a thread on here a while back.

 

Yes there are, although I doubt the model will reflect these?

 

I think it was @newbryford who pointed it out with some pics. Sorry if I am wrong tagging you in stuff incorrectly!

[classy52]

Will be a shame if Dapol withdraw from doing another 2 TPE 68's as I have both on pre-order but if they do then Accurascale will get 2 more sales from me for their TPE Mk5 sets.

Too be honest I'm not that fussed either way considering all the other stuff coming out this year.

[TomScrut]

13 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Will be a shame if Dapol withdraw from doing another 2 TPE 68's as I have both on pre-order but if they do then Accurascale will get 2 more sales from me for their TPE Mk5 sets.

Too be honest I'm not that fussed either way considering all the other stuff coming out this year.

 

I am really keen to have them as I live near Scarborough so are our local trains (along with the 185s).

 

If they don't do it I'll have the Accurascale set I have on order and run it with 034. If they do I'll have both TPE ones and long term may buy a second set of mk5s depending on availability when money isn't tied up on pre orders

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

5 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

026 is an odd one as it is very niche with its livery timescale isn't it. The other ones, well I'd probably have another swoosh one in due course to go with 034 but not high on my priorities given how much other stuff is on the way this year.

 

It is and we will most likely never see another one in the DRS Basic livery produced by Dapol. I was tempted to buy it, but it's the fact that the livery was so short lived. From my records it last around 18 months at the most, during 2017 & 2018. But I opted for some more of the 'Swoosh' liveried DRS machines instead because these serve a much wider period of time. 

 

I was considering buying even more 'Swoosh' DRS 68s but I can't at the moment because what with everything else due this year, I simply don't have the money. But like you I wasn't desperate for them anyway. So I would rather have some new items that I don't yet have any of.