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Channel 4 model railway challenge


Nearholmer
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Engineering is a very broad term. I was trained as a mechanical engineer and generally worked with or on things made of metal. But surely the engineering in this show is civil and structural. The fact that the vehicle is rail based is to some extent irrelevant, it could just as well have been a radio controlled car running on a road surface.

 

I really don't think the term model engineering fits the bill as the locos were commercially available and the civil engineering small scale but real.

 

Model to me means a smaller scale representation of a full sized prototype so if they had built a model of the Forth rail bridge then it would be a model.....

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Engineering is a very broad term. I was trained as a mechanical engineer and generally worked with or on things made of metal. But surely the engineering in this show is civil and structural. The fact that the vehicle is rail based is to some extent irrelevant, it could just as well have been a radio controlled car running on a road surface.

 

I really don't think the term model engineering fits the bill as the locos were commercially available and the civil engineering small scale but real.

 

Model to me means a smaller scale representation of a full sized prototype so if they had built a model of the Forth rail bridge then it would be a model.....

 

By that definition, the Craig & Mertonford isn't a model ;-)

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Engineering is a very broad term. I was trained as a mechanical engineer and generally worked with or on things made of metal. But surely the engineering in this show is civil and structural. The fact that the vehicle is rail based is to some extent irrelevant, it could just as well have been a radio controlled car running on a road surface.

 

I really don't think the term model engineering fits the bill as the locos were commercially available and the civil engineering small scale but real.

 

Model to me means a smaller scale representation of a full sized prototype so if they had built a model of the Forth rail bridge then it would be a model.....

 

 

Jeff

 

I see where your thought train is coming from, but looking at some of the structures in someways its modelling but also light engineering and a great deal of DIY skills.

 

The trestle bridge for example,

 

Was it a model of something ? Not really. But it was built along the lines of the real thing

Was it highly engineered, again in some terms no, but a very well designed and built civil engineering structure 

 

 

But it took a model train over an obstacle faultlessly, so perhaps it was a model which was engineered after all

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@ John and Jeff... Which is why I say engineering in "miniature" rather than modelling, just a smaller version (not model) of the various types of structures... I agree it gets into a grey area when we look at Garden Railways but in the smaller scales i wouldn't call any of my model bridges engineering!

 

Thanks for clarifying the helix, I mis-read the original post to read that the company had supplied it... :)

Edited by Hobby
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By that definition, the Craig & Mertonford isn't a model ;-)

Do I want to get drawn into commenting??????

 

 

@ John and Jeff... Which is why I say engineering in "miniature" rather than modelling, just a smaller version (not model) of the various types of structures... I agree it gets into a grey area when we look at Garden Railways but in the smaller scales i wouldn't call any of my model bridges engineering!

A passing comment. P. D. Hancock was a member of the Edinburgh and Lothians MINIATURE Railway Club which in 1951 was a spin off from the local model engineers society. I have had many an interesting discussion with people at model railway exhibitions as to the use of the word Miniature rather than the word Model in the club title but the club's founder, one W Loch Kidston of O Gauge Guild and Protofour fame, was adamant the club would build railways in miniature rather than models of them. Needless to say he and the club parted company after a brief relationship!

 

Apologies for the topic drift.

 

Malcolm

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@ John and Jeff... Which is why I say engineering in "miniature" rather than modelling, just a smaller version (not model) of the various types of structures... I agree it gets into a grey area when we look at Garden Railways but in the smaller scales i wouldn't call any of my model bridges engineering!

 

 

The distinction is quite interesting. though probably impossible to define.  A miniature railway is not necessarily a scale model of the full size railway but a miniature version of it. So, Henry Greenly designed the RHDR as a miniature railway representing, in the 1930s, the latest thing in fast main line railways whereas the Eaton and Duffield Bank Railways were built by Sir Arthur Heywood using the same 15 inch gauge but as full size minimum gauge railways. It's quite interesting to compare the RHDR or the Ratty which are arguably miniature railways with the equally wonderful Perrygrove railway which is a full size fifteen inch narrow gauge railway to experience the distinction.

 

For an article I'm writing I've been looking again at this plan that appears in the post war edition of Henry Greenly's "Model Railways" and has always intrigued me

post-6882-0-48769600-1517769487_thumb.jpg

 

It is a design for a roughly 5/8-2/3 scale version of a French main line "OCEM" coach of the 1930s but designed for 600mm gauge which is less than half of standard gauge. It's not exactly a scale model in its body either because it was designed to accomodate full size passengers so there are five instead of eight compartments and each of them has four rather than six or eight seats. Some other features such as the toilet are also full size and things like doors and corridor are also wider than scale though still a bit tight for anyone of above average girth. So, is this a model or a miniature? 

Edited by Pacific231G
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There are many debates raging in this estimable, and quite large compared to other fora, collection of new, "average" and highly skilled modellers, engineers and bodgellers.

 

This is probably the least meaningful of any of them. Does anyone, bar a few pedants, give a sh1t? Shall we just leave it to them, on a new thread PLEASE?

 

 

 

For me, I am far more concerned about how to get anywhere the level of verisimilitude that others achieve, than I am about what the fcuk it is called.

 

Can we just return to the point of this thread, which is about how much we do or do not enjoy the spectacle of apparently sane adults, for no remuneration whatsoever other than the production company, attempting to do what the good ol' Victorians had decided was a complete waste of time and money? I enjoy it, as do the majority I think, and a seriously large viewing figure, but a large number do not. Fair summary?

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There are many debates raging in this estimable, and quite large compared to other fora, collection of new, "average" and highly skilled modellers, engineers and bodgellers.

 

This is probably the least meaningful of any of them. Does anyone, bar a few pedants, give a sh1t? Shall we just leave it to them, on a new thread PLEASE?

 

 

 

For me, I am far more concerned about how to get anywhere the level of verisimilitude that others achieve, than I am about what the fcuk it is called.

 

Can we just return to the point of this thread, which is about how much we do or do not enjoy the spectacle of apparently sane adults, for no remuneration whatsoever other than the production company, attempting to do what the good ol' Victorians had decided was a complete waste of time and money? I enjoy it, as do the majority I think, and a seriously large viewing figure, but a large number do not. Fair summary?

Yep, fair summary.

 

Regards, Ian.

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I am looking forward to the last episode tonight and suspect I am not alone in this. I want to see if they make the distance and if the train gets to trundle over those structures they have made. Is it a model railway? Is it modelling? Is it engineering? Do I care? Not a jot just a bit of fun for an hour a week!

Cheers

Mark

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A splendid end to all that hard work. I liked the model of Inverness station. It had never occurred to me before that Inverness was named after the River Ness.

 

I liked the way the series created friendships for people from different backgrounds and it created some interest in model railways for people outside the hobby who saw the television series.

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Can we just return to the point of this thread, which is about how much we do or do not enjoy the spectacle of apparently sane adults, for no remuneration whatsoever other than the production company, attempting to do what the good ol' Victorians had decided was a complete waste of time and money? I enjoy it, as do the majority I think, and a seriously large viewing figure, but a large number do not. Fair summary?

 I don't think it can be said too often, that the West Highland and the Invergarry and Fort Augustus wasted a great deal of time and money to try and promote a railway through the Great Glen in the bared teeth of opposition of the Highland Railway who were intent on preventing the monopoly of rail access to the (then) town of Inverness wrested from them by their competitors.

 

It was a route that might have been of value in two World Wars and as a freight corridor but equally the sheer lack of population would have made it a pretty unprofitable line as far as passenger services were concerned.

 

That aside, it was a pretty enjoyable journey!  The Scots seem to pride themselves on re-opening closed lines, we may well see the Waverly route reopened.  Perhaps they should look at the tourist potential of a Light Railway from Fort William to Inverness...

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The Bournemouth Echo references the fact that a company there builds helixes (and baseboards) and some footage of one of their products appears on the show. The design on the show was entirely ours (inc Alex the production engineer!). I have the notebook to prove it! Simon Haydn did the sums, everyone else did the work, I wrote on a whiteboard and gobbed off to camera!

 

 

 

"The TV programme featured a model helix produced by this firm."

 

The impression given by the programme was that the helix was built by the team who were there, like the bridges... So who's telling the truth? Or did they have the firm as "consultants" to show their design which was then built by the team on the ground?

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I was quite impressed with the helix. It’s not a tremendously difficult shape to define, but (as I know from experience of building a spiral ramp in a car park once) it requires considerable attention to accuracy in its construction.

 

I was also intrigued that Roundhouse were able to accurately define what the loco could manage, in terms of gradient and curvature.

 

Well done, all

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"The TV programme featured a model helix produced by this firm."

 

The impression given by the programme was that the helix was built by the team who were there, like the bridges... So who's telling the truth? Or did they have the firm as "consultants" to show their design which was then built by the team on the ground?

 

 

 

The Bournemouth Echo references the fact that a company there builds helixes (and baseboards) and some footage of one of their products appears on the show. The design on the show was entirely ours (inc Alex the production engineer!). I have the notebook to prove it! Simon Haydn did the sums, everyone else did the work, I wrote on a whiteboard and gobbed off to camera!

 

 

It was probably just lazy journalism, missing out those all important

words "of the type", from between 'helix' and 'produced'!

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Just watched the final episode. So glad that the team completed the task. I am sure that it was an experience they will never ever forget. Congratulations to all involved. It was a very enjoyable programme and I have thoroughly enjoyed watching it. I wish I had the chance to take part, but unfortunately there was no way my previous employer would have let me hot foot up to Scotland during term time. 

 The show also brought back great memories because my honeymoon was spent in Fort William and then Inverness. I remember sitting up by the castle on the very last day - before we caught the sleeper home.

 

 It is a shame that the Team C leader came across less well again. This could have been unkind editing again. Good to see Jenny's wit showing through again from her desire to just "band the track down" to needing people with the "ability to breathe" raised a smile. Cameron came across very well again.

 

Congrats to all. A great achievement.

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Great last episode with Ronald the Runaway Rhino bringing some much needed personality to a little battery loco!  Absolutely bonkers British telly at its best, Sunday night is going to be a little bit dull from now on.....

 

Well done all who took part.

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