Channel 4 model railway challenge

[Suzie]

I think that they are taking on board some of the feedback from the earlier consultation as to what might add to the success. Security of the site is going to be a lot better when it is a long way from habitation and guarded by midges!

 

Although it is quite a long way to go I might be tempted to help if there was a chance of collecting a bit of gauge-1 track for the garden, but if they are still intent on silly little 0-gauge...

[Shovelto]

Well, as one of those who had discussions with them originally I have not heard anything further yet. I'll not hold my breath but who knows?

[tractor_37260]

I think that they are taking on board some of the feedback from the earlier consultation as to what might add to the success. Security of the site is going to be a lot better when it is a long way from habitation and guarded by midges!

 

Although it is quite a long way to go I might be tempted to help if there was a chance of collecting a bit of gauge-1 track for the garden, but if they are still intent on silly little 0-gauge...

 

Assuming they use 0 gauge track ? - the track cost alone would be somewhere around £900,000 ! for 74 miles worth .........130,000+ yard lengths....doubtful there's that amount in the country..............unless of course the plan is to lay a section, run a loco along it. then lift the track to re-lay it in front for the next section..........and so on...........and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Edited March 4, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Suzie]

Assuming they use 0 gauge track ? - the track cost alone would be somewhere around £900,000 ! for 74 miles worth .........130,000+ yard lengths....doubtful there's that amount in the country..............unless of course the plan is to lay a section, run a loco along it. then lift the track to re-lay it in front for the next section..........and so on...........

 

My understanding is that there is sponsorship for this project from a large UK manufacturer that has an 0-gauge range they want to promote which is tying their hands a bit, but I guess making it possible.

[tractor_37260]

My understanding is that there is sponsorship for this project from a large UK manufacturer that has an 0-gauge range they want to promote which is tying their hands a bit, but I guess making it possible.

 

A big huge outlay for any company, but I shall watch with interest........................................

[Huw Griffiths]

Well, as one of those who had discussions with them originally I have not heard anything further yet. I'll not hold my breath but who knows?

 

This sounds like a fair point to me.

 

Whether or not the programme makers wish to involve any / all of the people they've previously been in contact with, I'd regard it as a matter of common courtesy for all of these people to be contacted again, unless they've specifically said they wish to hear nothing further.

 

However, a comment earlier in this thread about the programme makers "putting out calls for people at ModelRail Scotland" makes me wonder how keen they might be to involve too many people from the opposite end of the UK.

 

Ultimately, I can't see many people wishing to be out of pocket if they take part in this endeavour.

 

A number of these people won't have their own cars, so would be reliant on public transport (or hire cars) to get to and from the filming location. Even those with their own cars would probably want to be paid more than some nominal "fuel only" rate for this purpose - and they'd also expect to be housed, fed and watered during the time they'd be there. Using local people might well reduce these costs considerably, if large numbers of people are involved.

 

It'll be interesting to see how many people from outside the area are contacted with a view to them being actively involved - and how many of these people have specialist skills (eg electrical engineering). In practice, I guess it might end up being something of a "numbers game" - the more people the production company needs, the wider they "cast their net".

 

 

I think that they are taking on board some of the feedback from the earlier consultation as to what might add to the success. Security of the site is going to be a lot better when it is a long way from habitation and guarded by midges!

 

Although it is quite a long way to go I might be tempted to help if there was a chance of collecting a bit of gauge-1 track for the garden, but if they are still intent on silly little 0-gauge...

 

As I've never been any further North than Cumbria (and that a rapidly receding memory of my 22nd birthday), I hadn't given any thought to the midges - I hope the production company have.

 

Getting power to the loco(s) might also be an issue - if they use 12V DC, it wouldn't take too many lengths of track for the (Ohmic) voltage drops across the rails to reduce the supply to a level at which the loco motor would stop working properly - there's also the issue of lack of continuity (or reduced continuity) at track joints. If they're going down this route, they'd need a lot of car batteries to maintain the track supply voltage at a suitable level.

 

Another possibility might be what some of our friends in the US might refer to as "dead rail" - that's right, "onboard" batteries and radio control. I've never done any of this with model trains, but a number of people have - I'm sure that suitable equipment would be available, albeit at a price.

 

As for the O gauge track, I wonder how many people might want a few dozen lengths of the stuff as "souvenirs". After all, it probably wouldn't be too much of a problem for people to clean a number of lengths of this stuff for use on their own (as yet unbuilt) layouts, if they're getting it "gratis" - but the resale value of this stuff after it's been laid on the ground would probably be negligible.

 

 

Assuming they use 0 gauge track ? - the track cost alone would be somewhere around £900,000 ! for 74 miles worth .........130,000+ yard lengths....doubtful there's that amount in the country..............unless of course the plan is to lay a section, run a loco along it. then lift the track to re-lay it in front for the next section..........and so on...........and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

I'm not sure that doing this would allow this stunt to qualify as "the longest model railway in the world" - which is a stated aim for the whole exercise.

 

However, after the run has been completed, I could imagine the loco (or locos) involved needing a lot of "TLC" to be usable elsewhere. Whether this worries the production company remains to be seen.

 

 

My understanding is that there is sponsorship for this project from a large UK manufacturer that has an 0-gauge range they want to promote which is tying their hands a bit, but I guess making it possible.

 

Perhaps. I could imagine the availability of stuff they need (especially at an advantageous price) being helpful - but I wonder if any manufacturer / supplier sponsorship would actually be a "deciding issue".

 

Ultimately, I'd imagine that the production company would have done their sums before pitching the series to TV channels - so, when it comes to what they charge the network, they'd have a pretty good idea of the "break even point". Whoever ultimately owns any production company, I can't see them being prepared to make programmes unless they're certain of making a significant profit.

 

Exactly how significant this profit is would be commercially sensitive - but the quoted price for one of this company's series (which used to be on BBC) suggests they're probably reasonably "switched on" in this department.

 

 

As previously said by a number of people in this thread, developments are likely to be interesting.

 

 

Huw.

[dibber25]

I understand that devising the way of powering the train will be part of the challenge, something with its own on-board power source presumably being the logical option. 

[uax6]

The ideal way would be live steam wouldn't it? although how much meths and water would you need to do 70 odd miles?

 

Andy G

[Scottish Modeller]

When I spoke to them last time they didn't have a clue. Their last plan was to use Corse Scale O gauge, as it clipped together. When I mentioned things like volt drops and current requirements of motors, you could hear their eyes glaze over. 

 

With the location change I can't see them getting very many volunteers.

 

Marc   

Hi Marc,

 

From the 3 discussions/interuptions to modelling they subjected me to at Modelrail - they still do not have a clue.

 

They do not seem to understand what the Great Glen Way is or the obstacles it encompasses are.

 

They are still talking about 7mm scale being the intended standard thay are working with.

 

At one time or other I have walked, ridden and/or driven most of the route they are looking at using.

 

It's not flat, it's not straight, it includes what in a wet summer will still be marshy ground.

 

They have arranged a meeting with one of the Scottish MRC's 'for further discussions'.

 

Thanks

[MarcD]

I thought the original plan need a lot doing to it and the proposed track bed was to be the towpath of the Leeds Liverpool. A fairly man made environment. If my memory is correct the Caledonian is a ship canal and doesn't have a towpath.

Having been to the great glen at a number of different times of the year you would need a five year drought to dry out some areas.

I am starting to think that dear old Nessy is not going to be the only mythology creature in the great glen for the tourists to look for.

Marc

[Suzie]

Perhaps it will be done in the winter when the ice will make a nice flat track bed...

[AMJ]

If this idea was posted on 1/4/2017 many of us would have given it very little time.

 

As previously mentioned the major issue is going to be enough manpower to lay maintain and run this. I wonder if the researchers have read the history books and realised yet that all schemes proposed for the great glen failed. It was only on the onset of the first world war that the Highland realised another route to Inverness through a sparsely populated region would have been beneficial.

 

As an idealist I would like to see this succeed but the reality is it will fail.

[Hilux5972]

James May failed on his Toy Stories to make a 10 mile model railway first time around due to thefts and damage. Only on his 2nd attempt, with the backing of Hornby, did they make the 10 miles between Barnstaple and Bideford. 70+ miles is a huge amount.

[Chris M]

Battery radio control would be fine. My G scale locos will run for about 5 hours just using AAA rechargeables. With higher tech batteries a much longer running time will be easily attained.

 

The sheer distance is a problem. I reckon my G scale locos running flat out don't do more than 4mph. So that's at least 19 hours running flat out!

[andyram]

They would have a little more chance of achieving it with G scale, but even so I doubt the scheme is possible and the costs are astronomical!

[Grasshopper John]

I don't think money is a problem, didn't they sell 'Bake off' to channel 4 for around £25 Million

[Nearholmer]

I'm amazed by the somewhat negative tone here. I thought that railway modellers were an ingenious bunch, who relished a challenge.

 

If you flip the question, and say: We ARE going to run an 0 gauge train the full length of the Great Glen, in less than a fortnight; so, exactly HOW are we going to do it?

 

Answers will begin to flow. Even if you add sensible cost constraints, answers will still flow.

 

Kevin

Edited March 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[MarcD]

I was told a story about two men who came across an angry bear. the first man started to run the second man stopped and put on his running shoes. the first man then asked the second man why he was putting on his shoes. to which the second man said I don't have outrun the bear I only have to beat you!

 

If the object of the program is to build the worlds longest model railway and the current record is 10 miles then to brake the record you only need to build one that is 10miles 1 inch. If 10 miles was competed in 4mm then doing it in 7mm or G makes things easer larger motors, thicker rails, more robust stock etc. Why make thing difficult by building it in a remote part of the highlands? build it on the side of an existing preserved railway, a goods branch, abandoned track bed. If they want they could rebuild the Wisbech and Upwell.

 

The task will have enough challenged without making extra ones that don't need to be there.

 

Marc

[Suzie]

They would have a little more chance of achieving it with G scale, but even so I doubt the scheme is possible and the costs are astronomical!

 

 

I can't see that the cost of making 45mm track will be significantly greater than 32mm track, and 65 miles of it is probably enough to justify setting up manufacturing to make economy gauge 1 track in reasonable lengths.

[Chris M]

I can't see that the cost of making 45mm track will be significantly greater than 32mm track, and 65 miles of it is probably enough to justify setting up manufacturing to make economy gauge 1 track in reasonable lengths.

At the moment g scale track is around £5 per foot.

G would be good as the stock is designed to run outside on fairly rough track and is expected to just run all day long in the sun or rain. O gauge stock may be able to cope with these conditions but wasn't designed for it.

[Hroth]

I thought the original plan need a lot doing to it and the proposed track bed was to be the towpath of the Leeds Liverpool. A fairly man made environment. If my memory is correct the Caledonian is a ship canal and doesn't have a towpath.

Having been to the great glen at a number of different times of the year you would need a five year drought to dry out some areas.

I am starting to think that dear old Nessy is not going to be the only mythology creature in the great glen for the tourists to look for.

Marc

There's bits of the Leeds & Liverpool that go over (or under) very rugged terrain with no towpath at all.  ie FOULRIDGE TUNNEL.  http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/ll/ll48.htm

Then there's all the other users, walkers, bikers, a rude and unpleasant lot, even worse than the anglers.and even some boaters.

Also consider the gradients at locks; (lots of those on the L&L) just one moderate lock lifts a boat 8 - 10ft over a distance of 70ft.  For fun, google Bingley five rise locks...

 

Thats why that was a non-starter, really.

 

As for the Great Glen.  It'll be interesting to see if it gets off the ground, as it were....

[Steamport Southport]

I thought the original was going to be Liverpool to Goole via the Trans Pennine Trail rather than via the Leeds Liverpool Canal?

 

 

 

Jason

[Huw Griffiths]

I thought the original was going to be Liverpool to Goole via the Trans Pennine Trail rather than via the Leeds Liverpool Canal?

 

When one of the researchers phoned me last July, she was talking about the Leeds Liverpool Canal - and saying that somebody had been along the route on a pushbike.

 

As for the currently projected location, I personally don't know anything about it - but a number of people's posts here suggest that the exercise could turn out to be "challenging", to say the least.

 

Wherever anyone's coming from, I don't see these comments as "negativity". Rather, I see them as warnings - potential "red flags", which should at least be investigated - so the people making any decisions can satisfy themselves that there aren't underlying problems which might force the whole scheme to be abandoned. Far better to be aware of anything like this now - before loads of money, equipment and, ultimately, people get committed to an impossible undertaking.

 

If the whole endeavour is genuinely workable, then all's well and good - and a number of people might be in for an interesting and rewarding time. However, if this is not the case, it's better to be realistic about it - and change the exercise, location or whatever else as appropriate.

 

A number of us are likely to follow any developments on this with interest.

 

 

Huw.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Ok - so there is some 'negativity' shown in peoples postings.

 

Maybe that is because they are realists.

 

Maybe that is because they know the challenges of the projected route

 

Maybe it it that they know the difficulties in getting amodel engine to run for this distance

 

Maybe it is that they realise that the organisers have not really thought this idea out.

 

No matter what the reasons - they are valid causes for doubt in the viability of this scheme.

 

If you are interested in seeing how this works out - feel free to volunteer by contacting the production team!

 

First though, I suggest you go onto Google Earth and take a look at the location, follow the Great Glen Way and see what it is like for yourselves.

 

That way you will begin to gain an understanding as to why some of us see this as an unrealistic challenge.

 

Thanks

[ruggedpeak]

As someone who worked with the tv and film industry for a number of years, there are wise words above. Negativity and being realistic are not qualities found in TV land. Read Simon Kohler's blog about his experiences. If this goes ahead it will be an adventure and possibly a nightmare all at once.

 

Good luck.

Edited March 5, 2017 by ruggedpeak