Channel 4 model railway challenge

[rue_d_etropal]

They need about 50 people to commit themselves to build it, as well as lots of local support

 

We’ll need 4 teams of 10-14 people who will need to be able to commit to the whole filming period. We’ll also need an army of local volunteers who will be able to dip in and out.

 

 

 

The location might be easier to build, but getting enough of the right people might be a problem. I still think it is a great idea, but will hold my breath concerning how well it will work. Having been involved in practical conservation work, many years ago, some in the wilds of Scotland, I know how much time it takes to plan and organise even a small team working in a small area.

I am trying to steer away from being negative, but when I see an alternative which is more positive I will follow that path.

[Colin_McLeod]

Commercial TV has average budget of £500,000-800,000 per hour, so money's no real object.

If money is no object then why do they need volunteers? IMO there would be more takers if suitable payment was offered.

[Nile_Griffith]

I don't see it myself.

 

Yes I would heartily agree that anything that opens up the hobby to a new audience and generates interest can't be a bad thing........ But......

 

How do you turn this into "Telly" with the sort of budgetary constraints companies like "Love Productions" work with? Now before you all go wittering on about "Bake Off". What makes "Bake Off" a great platform from a production point of view, is that it's pretty contained. You go to a quality marquee company like De Boers hire yourself a couple of decent sized tents, one for your studio the other for production (kit storage, portable gallery, crew catering etc) a couple of decent generators and plonk it down in some nice rural idyll for about six weeks. Week one set build and technical set up. Week two spent going through production notes, presenter and crew rehearsals, test shoots and snagging. Then you are into four weeks of filming of the competitors themselves. Throw into the mix maybe one or two PSC (portable single camera) crews running around the country with an AP (Assistant Producer) doing all the competitors at home footage over a period of about seven or eight weeks and the obvious edit and post production time. And by and by you have a fairly neatly contained and importantly, quite economic hit series.

 

But building a model railway over miles of Scottish country side? This sort of production moves away from the Studio based approach of something like "Bake Off" (temporary studio it maybe) and on to something that has all the logistical challenges of a major outdoor sporting event. You move away from the advantages of a studio fitted with a number of remote control hot head camera's working alongside one or two camera men on the studio floor grabbing the action. Too having to work on the logistics of three maybe four or five camera crews looking to cover quite large areas. Assistant directors and producers in tow having to communicate with more senior directors as to progress in their respective area's, with all the creative and technical requirements of capturing what might be critical stages of development or pieces of light hearted entertainment.

 

And then how do you securities the site? That sort of activity always attracts interest and you can bet sure as eggs are eggs there is either some opportunist about or some b*gger who just wants to cause trouble by being willing to get in there and spoil it for everyone.

 

James May's Model train exploit was a good illustration of how these geographically spread out projects are just such hard work to get right. How many of us had watched the entertaining piece on building a Meccano Bridge across a very narrow stretch of the river Mersey or the life size Airfix Spitfire, to then feel slightly let down by the rebuild of a real railway line in OO gauge?

 

Yes I would love to see the program work, but somehow this all smacks to me of another TV production company clutching at straws trying to find a follow up to a success.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Nile_Griffith

[Huw Griffiths]

This year's challenge is not for me, I'm afraid.

 

However, when I spoke to the researchers at "Ally Pally", I got the impression that they might be looking to do other challenges in future years - some of which might be more workable for me.

 

Time will tell - but I'd be happy to be kept "in the loop".

 

 

One thing which came across very strongly in conversation was that they are keen to portray the hobby in a positive light - and make it clear that a number of skills are involved in the hobby. As I suggested when I chatted with them on Sunday, the NMRA website offers some potential ideas here:

 

nmra.org/beginner/why-model

 

I could also add that it offers a credible excuse - sorry - reason - to do some electronics stuff. Do you like lights inside your model trains? You could always add a homebrew circuit board inside the roof, complete with a number of small LEDs and resistors - and your soldering iron also gets a workout!

 

Seriously though, this hobby involves a lot of skills - especially if you build things yourself (I know - shocking concept - it'll never catch on). Exactly how many skills are involved - and to what extent - are matters of personal choice.

 

However, there's certainly a lot more to railway modelling than shaking RTR models out of a box - and long may this continue.

 

 

Huw.

[Nile_Griffith]

This year's challenge is not for me, I'm afraid.

 

However, when I spoke to the researchers at "Ally Pally", I got the impression that they might be looking to do other challenges in future years - some of which might be more workable for me.

 

Time will tell - but I'd be happy to be kept "in the loop".

 

 

One thing which came across very strongly in conversation was that they are keen to portray the hobby in a positive light - and make it clear that a number of skills are involved in the hobby. As I suggested when I chatted with them on Sunday, the NMRA website offers some potential ideas here:

 

nmra.org/beginner/why-model

 

I could also add that it offers a credible excuse - sorry - reason - to do some electronics stuff. Do you like lights inside your model trains? You could always add a homebrew circuit board inside the roof, complete with a number of small LEDs and resistors - and your soldering iron also gets a workout!

 

Seriously though, this hobby involves a lot of skills - especially if you build things yourself (I know - shocking concept - it'll never catch on). Exactly how many skills are involved - and to what extent - are matters of personal choice.

 

However, there's certainly a lot more to railway modelling than shaking RTR models out of a box - and long may this continue.

 

 

Huw.

 

 

As much as I would endorse your comments about the hobby and skills that are involved. I really would take anything a series producer who has no tangible experience of the subject says to me, with a very large pinch of salt.

 

Over the last five years I think maybe 20% of the pilots I have been involved with have actually made it through to production and of those possibly only one in five actually got anywhere near to the original premise. 

 

I'd lay an even bet that a series producer will quickly home in on the inter-personal and characters of the hobby over modelling value. To repeat what I mentioned in an earlier posting. Joe Public's appetite for reality is based on the level of "superiority" they feel they engender to themselves as viewers. Thats not to say I don't think there is purpose in presenting the hobby to a wider public. I just don't think this sort of programme will do it.

[Nile_Griffith]

Actually as a thought.

 

If there was any Telly mileage in such a production. I'm fairly certain that someone with the hobby insight, business savvy and media connections of Pete Waterman, would have snapped up something by now.

[Nearholmer]

Something that might be worth bearing in mind is that nobody "owns" the way our hobby is portrayed outside of the closed circle of model railway publications. It will be portrayed, if at all, however "the media" see fit.

 

For a long time, that meant a portrayal hinging around geeky, 'sad' imagery ....... isolated social inadequates, basically. That portrayal has changed a bit, but what I've never seen portrayed is the essential "clubiness" of the hobby, the fact that, while some prefer to pursue the hobby alone, a huge number pursue it collectively, with a bunch of mates. A lot of people build model railways together, 'play trains' together, and organise a quite staggering number of public events each year, collectively, voluntarily, and 'self organised'.

 

So, it may not be quite as daft as it first sounds to create a programme around teams of railway modellers ....... if they were labelled clubs, instead of teams, it would sound quite ordinary. And, watching a bunch of people self-organise to achieve an objective is always interesting ......... although there is clearly a risk that teams will be deliberately arranged to ensure that there is entertaining conflict within them!

 

Kevin

[Nile_Griffith]

Something that might be worth bearing in mind is that nobody "owns" the way our hobby is portrayed outside of the closed circle of model railway publications. It will be portrayed, if at all, however "the media" see fit.

 

For a long time, that meant a portrayal hinging around geeky, 'sad' imagery ....... isolated social inadequates, basically. That portrayal has changed a bit, but what I've never seen portrayed is the essential "clubiness" of the hobby, the fact that, while some prefer to pursue the hobby alone, a huge number pursue it collectively, with a bunch of mates. A lot of people build model railways together, 'play trains' together, and organise a quite staggering number of public events each year, collectively, voluntarily, and 'self organised'.

 

So, it may not be quite as daft as it first sounds to create a programme around teams of railway modellers ....... if they were labelled clubs, instead of teams, it would sound quite ordinary. And, watching a bunch of people self-organise to achieve an objective is always interesting ......... although there is clearly a risk that teams will be deliberately arranged to ensure that there is entertaining conflict within them!

 

Kevin

 

 

 

Be careful what you wish for. TV has a way of highlighting eccentricities while gently letting "the norm" slip quietly into the back ground. There is a general term that people buy people. The likes of "Bake Off" isn't about the cakes. The cakes are common currency. All of us need to eat and most of cook and prepare food to one level or other. What people buy into with such shows are the personalities. I don't recall anyone commenting the following day about specific ingredients or methods of preparation. It's the personalities they comment on and how they coped with various situations.

 

From a programme makers point of view, why spend two or three minutes looking into the intricacies of soldering, which quite frankly is going to be as knicker gripping to most of Joe Public as watching paint dry, when you could have three minutes of "personality clash" that pretty much anyone can formulate an opinion on.

[Nearholmer]

NG,

 

Well, I hadn't heard the phrase, but the concept that people like watching other people is quite obvious, and, up to a point, it genuinely IS interesting to watch a group of people people thrashing out a 'self organisation' ....... the 'thrashing' ticks all three boxes: inform, educate, and entertain.

 

However, personally, I'm not into programmes like The Apprentice, where the "thrashing" is both the central purpose of the show, and quite obviously engineered by the casting team, who presumably use all the techniques that one uses to create an effective project team, but inverted.

 

In this case, there does seem to be an intent to succeed in the challenge, which must impose a limit on how volatile the human mix can be permitted to become ....... all out war within teams might be entertaining (probably not), but it would definitely cripple the ability to achieve the objective.

 

Where does that take it? Good mix of participants; some outright eccentrics; not all sweetness and light; some hissy-fits and tears before bedtime; but, balanced enough to succeed.

 

So, pretty much like the 'storming, norming, and forming' in the early years of a model railway club, then.

 

Kevin

[rue_d_etropal]

I checked my diary, and I am attending 2 exhibitions over those 2 weeks. Lets me off, as I was starting to get tempted to apply.

The Bake-off show started as a one off for one of the BBC charity programs. I am not keen on competition, but there is more about the characters, and that is what grabs people's attention. Nothing new, remember the year long community survival program the BBC did back in 2000. What I don't see is how they can do anything in just 2 weeks.

Hopefully if it gets some interest they might start to look at other related programs. Maybe something about model railway exhibitions, as they are something that shows the hobby in good light. Even the ones that fall fat get more people in the doors than the average art or craft exhibition. I know, as I have done them as well, yet they get all the applause, and there has just been a pottery series and an art painting series. Neither appealed to me as they were too focused on skill rather than creative thinking. Maybe those at Love Productions might have noticed that when they attended Ally Pally.

[blueeighties]

Just out of interest, has anyone reading/commenting on this thread been invited to a meet and greet session with Love Productions?

[Guest eddie reffin]

The production company had a meeting with Inverness MRC a while back but from the impression I got at the club on Tuesday night was that there would be virtually no help coming from the members. They didn't know what the terrain was like and the scale of the task in hand.

The majority of our members, like quite a few clubs, are in their 60s, in fact I'm one of the youngest at 43! Whilst they can still be described as mobile, 2 weeks in the Great Glen doesn't appeal to them.

Has the production company said much more about the project?

[blueeighties]

The production company had a meeting with Inverness MRC a while back but from the impression I got at the club on Tuesday night was that there would be virtually no help coming from the members. They didn't know what the terrain was like and the scale of the task in hand.

The majority of our members, like quite a few clubs, are in their 60s, in fact I'm one of the youngest at 43! Whilst they can still be described as mobile, 2 weeks in the Great Glen doesn't appeal to them.

Has the production company said much more about the project?

Hi Eddie. 'Meet and Greet' interviews for casting are taking place this coming weekend, 29+30th.

[Guest eddie reffin]

Ah! Thanks for that Lee. So they seem to still plan to go ahead then.

They are going to need a massive group to achieve this. Having cycled only a little bit of the route, I can see it going the same way as version 1 of James May's attempt. But I wish them all the luck with it.

Is there an "incentive" for those participating in the programme? Accommodation, food etc?

[blueeighties]

Ah! Thanks for that Lee. So they seem to still plan to go ahead then.

They are going to need a massive group to achieve this. Having cycled only a little bit of the route, I can see it going the same way as version 1 of James May's attempt. But I wish them all the luck with it.

Is there an "incentive" for those participating in the programme? Accommodation, food etc?

I know it's now generally accepted that this is going to be a monumental challenge, but I would be very surprised in this health and safety mad age if a large company was not going to provide basics such as food, accommodation and occasional breaks!! I shall know a bit more after this weekend   

[ian]

I know it's now generally accepted that this is going to be a monumental challenge, but I would be very surprised in this health and safety mad age if a large company was not going to provide basics such as food, accommodation and occasional breaks!! I shall know a bit more after this weekend   

 

ISTR that on their website they mentioned that the teams would be camping.

[blueeighties]

ISTR that on their website they mentioned that the teams would be camping.

Yes I know that. You're missing the point somewhat though. I can't see it being camping and fend for yourself.Not in this day and age.

[Blobrick]

Just out of interest, has anyone reading/commenting on this thread been invited to a meet and greet session with Love Productions?

 

 

Hi Blueeighties,

 

I ve been invited down to London for the second "Meet and Greet" on Sunday 30th at 13:00. (First one being Saturday 29th)  Rebecca told me the session should run up to about 18:00, with a couple of "challenges" for the participants to have a go at

[blueeighties]

Hi Blueeighties,

 

I ve been invited down to London for the second "Meet and Greet" on Sunday 30th at 13:00. (First one being Saturday 29th)  Rebecca told me the session should run up to about 18:00, with a couple of "challenges" for the participants to have a go at

See you there :-)

[Phil Parker]

Yes I know that. You're missing the point somewhat though. I can't see it being camping and fend for yourself.Not in this day and age.

 

It's not Bear Grills or a survival challenge, that's not the point. Teams will be "living like navies" in the sense that they will be under canvas and move with the project along the line. There's no suggestion you'll be foraging for food or killing wild haggises with weapons you've made yourselves.

[Nearholmer]

"Navies" live in ships, don't they?

 

Anyway, all this talk of "glamping" is making it sound a tad tame and dull ....... wood-fires, dirt, and sharing your bed with woodlice are what make camping interesting.

 

Kevin

[PatB]

"Navies" live in ships, don't they?

 

Anyway, all this talk of "glamping" is making it sound a tad tame and dull ....... wood-fires, dirt, and sharing your bed with woodlice are what make camping interesting.

 

Kevin

I don't remember the woodlice so much as the hordes of very small, pale slugs which always seemed to converge on my sleeping form or investigate the insides of my boots whenever I slept in the open in the UK .

[ardbealach]

And what about the midges?

[alaneggleston]

And what about the midges?

 

Free, with every Scottish holiday!

[ruggedpeak]

Hi Blueeighties,

 

I ve been invited down to London for the second "Meet and Greet" on Sunday 30th at 13:00. (First one being Saturday 29th)  Rebecca told me the session should run up to about 18:00, with a couple of "challenges" for the participants to have a go at

 

Remember, an efficient and organised team of skilled individuals delivering the project quickly and efficiently does not make good TV.

 

Whereas, on the other hand, a bunch of characters carefully put together to rub each other up the wrong way in a remote location renowned for rubbish weather and midges undertaking an arguably pointless task.......