Replacing Mashima motors

[cctransuk]

I have used two so far,both on High Level boxes. The only problem is the mounting holes are at 45 degrees instead of vertical so slightly wider when fitted. Just ensure the model has enough space for fitting.

 

.... or drill new mounting holes in the High Level gearbox etches before assembly.

 

Buy your motors from me, and I provide a template.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/

[micklner]

Or a alternative view.

 

As long as you have enough space, then the slanted motor is much better fitting option . Why ?, because it allows you to remove the motor from the gearbox easily. Fitting the motor vertically, means its almost impossible to release the bottom mounting screw when installed in the chassis.

[ScRSG]

Have now mounted two Mitsumi on to DJH gearboxes, if you have unused mounting brackets and you solder them up with the half etched line to the OUTside then the motor will almost sit vertically to the box, any slight offset is unlikely to affect fitting in the loco body.

[davefrk]

Fitted a new small motor on a HL gearbox last night. The motor is small enough to sit vertically in a narrow firebox small boilered loco, nice runner, not too fast but the torque wow, it is incredible and just at the right revs for our needs, finger on top of loco and the wheels still spin. We will see how it performs with a train once the coupling rods are made up and on but even with just one axle driven the 0-6-0 can crawl steadily at less than 1mph....

Testing will need to be done to check motor heating and longevity.

 

More anon.

 

Dave Franks.

[5050]

Fitted a new small motor on a HL gearbox last night. The motor is small enough to sit vertically in a narrow firebox small boilered loco, nice runner, not too fast but the torque wow, it is incredible and just at the right revs for our needs, finger on top of loco and the wheels still spin. We will see how it performs with a train once the coupling rods are made up and on but even with just one axle driven the 0-6-0 can crawl steadily at less than 1mph....

Testing will need to be done to check motor heating and longevity.

 

More anon.

 

Dave Franks.

How did you fit it to the HL gearbox to get it vertical Dave?  I've had many ideas on how to achieve this, most of them fiendishly complicated!

 

Edit - make that 'overcomplicated,!

Edited November 7, 2017 by 5050

[whart57]

A member of the 3mm Society has been experimenting with the N20 motors available over the internet. As these come with a spur gear box that reduces them down to 300 rpm he has also designed, and had etched, a motor mount that uses crown and pinion gearing rather than a worm wheel. Given that over half of a small motors power is lost to friction in the worm and wheel - even with good lubrication - the results of using these cheap motors with spur and crown and pinion gears are good. I am playing with one at the moment. I have an additional challenge in that I use 9mm gauge rather than one of 3mm scales standard gauges, but perhaps I should report back to this forum. I'm looking to power a Class 158 three coach set so it is a decent test.

[Nile]

N-Drive have a replacement for the 1015 available through ebay.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Ruston]

N-Drive have a replacement for the 1015 available through ebay.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I have just bought a couple of very similar motors direct from China. They don't have a shaft at both ends but the shape and dimensions are exactly the same, as is the shaft diamter. I haven't tried them yet but for just a couple of quid each, plus the cost of a length of brass tube to sleeve them up to 1.5mm) they've got to be worth a punt. Search eay for Minebea N20 6-12v motors.

 

 

Regarding the 16/20 Mitsumi motors, They are even cheaper if you buy direct from China and cut out the middlemen here in the UK. I bought 5 for £2.64 inc. postage. I have now ftted these to 4 locos, with High Level gearboxes, and they all perform well. I haven't bothered with mounting plates and screws and have turned collars up on the lathe. The collar fits over the boss on the motor to bring it up to the size of the hole in the gearbox, which automatically lines everything up without the need for extra mounting plates, or making fresh holes in the gearbox plate. I fix the motors in place by using a small amount of solder. It may sound rough but it works and if you do have to remove the motor it's just a quick touch of the iron to melt the solder and remove it. With all HL boxes now having grub screws in the gear on the axle there's no need to remove/refit the motor whilst building the loco now.

[whart57]

Just an FYI for people that Geoff Helliwell's piece on using N20 motors and spur gear trains is in this month's Railway Modeller. Geoff has done a lot of work on this and this is well worth a read.

[Stanley Melrose]

Just an FYI for people that Geoff Helliwell's piece on using N20 motors and spur gear trains is in this month's Railway Modeller. Geoff has done a lot of work on this and this is well worth a read.

Hi

 

Is this month's the March or April edition?

 

Stan

[Ruston]

Hi

 

Is this month's the March or April edition?

 

Stan

April.

[Stanley Melrose]

April.

 

Ta muchly!

 

Stan

[johnarcher]

Has anyone given the small (1015/1020 size) motors a proper work-out yet - I suppose the N20 or the N-Drive one?

I wonder as they seem to be 3 pole, and just trying one (not put it in anything yet) there does seem to be considerable cogging when trying to start up gradually.

[micklner]

N Drive to be installed this week hopefully, in a chassis. A update will be posted once done.

[micklner]

I bought a couple of these, via eBay from China.

 

 

 

Mouse over image to zoom

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Have one to sell? Sell it yourself

Mini N20 Motor DC 6V-12V 33500RPM High Speed Metal Brush Motor DIY Toy 12*15mm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Only just over a £1 each, however they overheated within a minute when not even loaded on 12 volts , I suggest avoid !!

Edited April 29, 2018 by micklner

[Pebbles]

From my browsing, the N20 motors carry a caveat that whilst they will operate at 12 volts prolonged use at this voltage is not recommended. "There is no substitute for cubes".

[johnarcher]

Thanks Mick, but personally I'd probably never use it at 12v, or for long periods. How did you find it for slow running, starting etc., any cogging?

 

Good luck with the N-drive one.

[Ruston]

Has anyone given the small (1015/1020 size) motors a proper work-out yet - I suppose the N20 or the N-Drive one?

I wonder as they seem to be 3 pole, and just trying one (not put it in anything yet) there does seem to be considerable cogging when trying to start up gradually.

I have an N20 in this:

 

 

 

And an N Drive 10/15 in this:

 

 

Both have chugged up and down my own little layout with no problems but the N20 one has had a good workout of several continuous circuits of the Keighley club test track with no problems, even though it was run at full power for most of it.

[micklner]

Thanks Mick, but personally I'd probably never use it at 12v, or for long periods. How did you find it for slow running, starting etc., any cogging?

 

Good luck with the N-drive one.

 

The motor overheated in one minute held in my fingers as said under no load. I wouldn't even think of using it in a Loco. To my mind its useless. The motor is advertised as suitable for 12v which it clearly is not. I have another two coming from other sources at the moment. It will be interesting to see if they are as bad.

[johnarcher]

I have an N20 in this:

Hudswelll3-006.jpg

 

 

Hudswel;Frames-002.jpg

 

And an N Drive 10/15 in this:

 

MWI-Leodis02.jpg

 

Both have chugged up and down my own little layout with no problems but the N20 one has had a good workout of several continuous circuits of the Keighley club test track with no problems, even though it was run at full power for most of it.

I do like the Manning especially. How is that N Drive one for slow running, smooth starting?  If it runs as well as it looks I'm convinced.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The motor overheated in one minute held in my fingers as said under no load. I wouldn't even think of using it in a Loco. To my mind its useless. The motor is advertised as suitable for 12v which it clearly is not. I have another two coming from other sources at the moment. It will be interesting to see if they are as bad.

 

Many of the motors available cheaply from the Far Easty are spin offs from other applications. It may be that these are 12v rated but designed for intermittent cycle usage, such as in some car applications or similar. Many are advertised as being for automobile use, such as door mirrors, central locking, etc. with a very short operating time followed by long periods of inactivity, which is not how we use them.

 

If you look at the much more expensive 12v motor manufacturer sites such as Portescap, Failhauber, etc you will find that they are aimed at much more demanding applications.

[whart57]

Many of the motors available cheaply from the Far Easty are spin offs from other applications. It may be that these are 12v rated but designed for intermittent cycle usage, such as in some car applications or similar. Many are advertised as being for automobile use, such as door mirrors, central locking, etc. with a very short operating time followed by long periods of inactivity, which is not how we use them.

 

If you look at the much more expensive 12v motor manufacturer sites such as Portescap, Failhauber, etc you will find that they are aimed at much more demanding applications.

 

It could be said that operation on the typical terminus to fiddleyard layout fits that intermittent pattern. Long continuous running is a different matter.

[Michael Edge]

The posts above seem to be looking at two different motors, the ones that have a gearbox attached are perfectly happy on 12v DC control and on DCC. I have two locos running perfectly well with these, one has been running for over a year now, including two exhibitions. I did try some similar sized motors without the gearbox and they behaved as described - instant overheating on 12v, only £3 wasted though (£1 really, I only tried one).

[Jol Wilkinson]

It could be said that operation on the typical terminus to fiddleyard layout fits that intermittent pattern. Long continuous running is a different matter.

 

Indeed it does up to a point.  If we are looking for motors that suit all railway modelling applications, then I guess we need something that will reliably run at 75%  max power for several minutes to cover all eventualities.

 

With the Mashima we had a choice of motor sizes and outputs to fit almost every application. At present, it seems no one has been able to find a selection of motors that can do that. The N20 with gearbox suits some applications but you need to source the final 90 degree drive gears. Wizard have been able to source a Canon 12v motor replacement for the M1420  (or 1620 as some people term it), but nothing else.  Other 12v can types people have found need existing etched motor mounts adapted to take the mounting screws. 

 

The very fact that Mr Mashima built a successful business supplying specialist 12v motors to our hobby with little obvious competition is perhaps indicative of the fact that few other suitable motors were available elsewhere. In comparison to what people are looking at now they weren't cheap. but neither were they that expensive. Hornby, Bachmann and co presumably are able to commission suitable motors owing to the volumes they need. Perhaps that is the answer, but I doubt if any of the hobbies usual Small Suppliers could fund it alone, especially if several different versions were required.

[Ruston]

I do like the Manning especially. How is that N Drive one for slow running, smooth starting?  If it runs as well as it looks I'm convinced.

It runs no differently to the equivalent Mashima, which I have in other similar small industrial locos. I can't say how well it works under continuous running as, apart from half an hour on rollers to test, it only runs up and down a 4ft. plank and being in a small shunting loco I doubt if it is ever run at full voltage. But then small shunting locos are really the only types that these motors will be used for anyway and if you run them at near to realistic speeds they're never going to get 12 volts. I can only imagine that the poster who had one overheat within a minute and under no load simply had a duff one.

 

Apart from sticking two wires to them to see if they work at all, I haven't tested the N-Drive lookalikes, that I bought for a couple of quid each but I will fix one to a spare gearbox and see how well it runs under different voltages.