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Aha. The video description says the shots are in the wrong order.

 

I wasn't sure the station was any of the Folkestone ones due to it being on such a pronounced curve, but I can't see it not being Folkestone, especially given the card before that clip, but it might be wrong, after all, the clips are in the wrong order so it may be a case of a false location. 

 

Screenshot_20200625_202704_com.google.android.youtube.jpg.500e416452a58c7da985632d116b9ef0.jpg

 

I was thinking Dover Harbour/Town? 

 

58112631_unnamed(5).jpg.3eaf866510a69fa5d87f6d1082b7c628.jpg

 

But then, the platform alignments don't work out. 

 

More pondering to be done... 

 

Also, Stephen, I had a look at the Midland resource and the download link - very useful stuff! 

 

As for through locomotives, as you've said, they were rare on scheduled services, with a Brighton tank typically taking over duties at Croydon or Kensington, I'd imagine. As for plodding onto Hastings, well... Anything goes, I'd say. Probably a less impressive tank. 

 

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Looking at the last station on the tight curve, I’m inclined to Folkestone Harbour. Can’t find a decent shot, but there’s a map showing that beyond the Harbour station that used to be, the line did an S-bend on to a platform on the pier itself, with an access footbridge behind crossing a few sidings. The train is leaving the pier to pass through the harbour station proper, which would explain the two R tanks on the front to get it up to the Junction. The LNWR running an Orient express?? Without Pullman cars?!?! For shame!!

AB7B42E3-7B38-4DA0-B71E-C601272DE41E.gif.c530e1b6a000704a8e4e477384ee80cf.gif

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I've just looked in Bradshaw (1922 iirc, I was hasty when making scans) and the only reference to excursion trains are to Folkestone Central and Junction (later, East). 

 

But that doesn't explain the R tanks, unless, again, they were moving the train to a siding. The LNWR didn't run a long distance complete boat train, though it did run, from the 1870s I believe, through coaches to Dover and Folkestone for the tidal crossing. 

 

 

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Regarding the other locations in the film, I think the shots of the train coming in and of the passengers going down the subway are taken on the same station judging by the platform buildings and signage. It can be seen in the first shots that the passengers are boarding on Platform 1, which is not an island platform as they're entering it from the right. Then after the train leaves there is just enough space behind the other platform to suggest it's an island one, certainly that it's labelled Platform 2, and what I think is the subway can be seen on the left of the shot. Then the shot of the passengers going down the subway is clearly shot on an island platform numbered 2 and 3 (the train is in platform 2). I think this is the shot that is supposed to go after the home time card at the end.

 

Therefore the first shots are of a southbound train and the subway shot shows a northbound train standing on the right.

 

EDIT: Went down the rabbit hole on this one. Looked up every station between Watford and Crewe and even some on the Liverpool/Manchester lines and I couldn't find anything that fit the bill. The clue came when I looked up the video's description on Youtube. Apparently the train is carrying Lever Brothers employees to the Brussels Exhibition. Lever Brothers works were, as is well known, at Port Sunlight on the Wirral. After some more checking of photographs I'm pretty sure that it's Bebington & New Ferry Station.

 

The other station is pretty definitely Folkestone Harbour I think, as it was in SECR days.

 

Therefore it's a special train running from Bebington direct to Folkestone and back, seemingly using LNWR stock for the entire journey (Presumably there would have been an engine change to an LBSCR or SECR engine somewhere further south?) The train also seems to be carrying some sort of temporary headboard or possibly a reporting number. At Folkestone the workers would board the ferry to Calais and then probably another train to Brussels. Judging by the fashions I would say they are attending the 1910 Exhibition there.

 

It is also clear that it is worked by two R tanks leaving Folkestone which again indicates that it is the Harbour station depicted in that bit of the film.

Edited by SD85
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As some of you may recall, I bought a Hornby Lord Nelson last year for my birthday, somewhat under pressure, and I was unable to access it until recently due to having fallen out with the person who was working on weathering it. 

 

I now have it back, and thankfully I've been able to more or less complete the work on it, with the only thing required now is another varnish and a front bogie nut which went missing at some point. 

 

This is definitely one of those purchases that I look at and I regret to a certain point. It isn't suitable for my layout at all, and though they're a nice class, they also didn't interest me in the first place. It's one to chalk up to experience. 

 

I'll be selling it on once it's done. I don't expect to get a full return on what I paid for it, but we'll have to wait and see. 

 

 

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Further to my "workbench" today, I decided to do a quick build of a private owner wagon, this one being H. Syrus, coal merchant of Hastings. 

 

I read in a 1925 newspaper article that Hastings freight was typically routed via Bexhill and held there for up to three days! Madness. So, I see no reason why anything coming from London or Kent couldn't come via Blackstone, including, perhaps, a few of these wagons? 

 

It's been an easy build, but the double sided tape used to secure the painted sides to the card was very stubborn. I'll just fill this wagon high, I think... 

 

I've got no three links or spoked wheels left currently, but no matter. I'm waiting for the solvent to dry, after that, I will add the brake levers and paint the metalwork in black. 

 

Overall, I'm happy with this little kit. Though I am concerned about some of the transfers and their potential weakness - I know @Skinnylinny has had issues with them flaking off or falling off entirely in the past.

 

IMG_20200701_124347.jpg.892e15df7e96989e7c59546b6e61a22b.jpgIMG_20200701_124304.jpg.d5e925b03f5ef83eb768435322241f07.jpg

 

Either Hornby or Bachmann do an RTR wagon for this trader, by the way, in a nice red oxide. That's awfully tempting to add to the fleet... 

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Hi Alex.

 

Is this a Powsides kits with pre-painted sides and ends and their transfers applied to a Slaters P.O. wagon kit ?

I have built a few of these and they do fill a few gaps in the ready to run ranges.

 

If it is, I believe that after painting and fixing the transfers, they spray them with Letraset type matt varnish. This normally fixes them quite well.

I normally apply weathering using dilute acrylic paints and finish with a coat of tainted Humbrol matt varnish, (a few drops of paint mixed in), from their enamel range, first testing and making sure that the varnish dries properly before hand. Once fully dried, this normally solidifies everything very well and nothing should come adrift.

Beware however, if you do weathering and use enamel paint thinned with thinners, the thinners may attack the transfers. I had that happen on one occasion.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

All the best

Ray

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It might be advisable to apply a further coat of matt varnish (Humbrol rattle can) as a barrier layer after completing the painting and before applying any weathering. For a pre-Great War private owner wagon, weathering should not be overdone - just enough to tome down the colour and bring out the detail. Grey-black, not "track colour" or rust. These wagons were well-maintained and were typically repainted every three-and-a-half years or thereabouts.

  

7 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

Either Hornby or Bachmann do an RTR wagon for this trader, by the way, in a nice red oxide. That's awfully tempting to add to the fleet... 

 

Bachmann. Of course it was an RCH 1923 7-plank 12 ton wagon, so grossly over-size for the original, which was a Gloucester RC&W Co. product of 1898, for which the Slaters/POWSides kit is spot on barring the round-bottomed axleboxes, which are an earlier Gloucester type. MJT do the correct Gloucester 4S axleboxes, if you are so minded, and POWSides also do a sheet of the Gloucester builder, owner, and repair plates. The Syrus wagon has all three, indicating that H. Syrus had hired the wagon from the Gloucester Co., the deal including a repairs and maintenance contract. I'm not so convinced by POWSides' interpretation of lettering "shaded dark blue".

 

To illustrate just how gross an RCH 1923 wagon looks compared to one of these Gloucester 10 ton wagons, here's my POWSides Huntley & Palmers No. 24, one of a batch of five 10 ton 6-plank wagons supplied by Gloucester in 1908, alongside Bachmann's application of the same livery to an RCH 1923 12 ton wagon, right down to the legend Load 10 Tons:

 

896246973_HPwagonsNo.24(Gloucester1908)andNo.21(BachmannRCH1923).JPG.c89150e2169e44ac739ef874296cbefb.JPG

 

The Bachmann model is a good representation of an RCH 1923 wagon but it's a very poor representation of H. Syrus' wagon No. 1.

 

End of homily.

 

 

Edited by Compound2632
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https://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/long-and-unfortunate-saga-hastings-harbour-1043794

 

Whilst doing a little reconnaissance surrounding Rye Harbour and Hastings' time as a port, I stumbled across the above article which features some fabulous photos and testimonies of Hastings in the 19th century. It's very bizarre, seeing such large sailing vessels beached on the seafront, especially further toward the 'newer' town as opposed to the Old Town where one would expect to see such items. But, evidently, it did happen. 

 

 

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A number of those photographs are credited to F.S. Mann, who was a professional photographer in the town. Am I right in thinking that he is also well-known for early photographs of Brighton locomotives, or am I confusing him with someone else?

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That's a question to field to @BlueLightning or one of the other Brighton Brethren, I should think. Though I don't see why it wouldn't be the same gentleman. The two towns were hardly inaccessible from one another during the Victorian era. Probably a longer journey, but still doable. 

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Oh I see - you may be right there. 

 

I was sent a photo of Hastings in the 1860s, I believe, by Ian Maccormac, which I think shows an LBSCR train waiting in the western platform.

 

[I've asked if I can post the photo in question - if I can, I'll edit it in]

 

It's startling how empty the town is at this point, behind the station - clearly development  began to boom from the end of the 60s, which can be identified in the prevalence of Gothic, Queen Anne and Italianette styles of construction - even Scottish Baronial styles made their way into the town. 

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-78530329.html

 

image.png.721488604581c352b5100e925e87312e.png

 

It's one thing I do miss about Hastings, its strange meld of architectural styles across the town. University always amused me as the library building (Havelock on Havelock Road) is a 1950s/1960s-era office block, formally BT (though they still use part of it) butted onto 19th century apartments/flats. It just looks so out of place. And then toward the end of the road you have the John Logie Baird branch of Wetherspoons (boo), with the Cafe Nero on the corner being the building in which the aforementioned gentleman experimented with television broadcasting. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

And then toward the end of the road you have the John Logie Baird branch of Wetherspoons (boo), with the Cafe Nero on the corner being the building in which the aforementioned gentleman experimented with television broadcasting. 

The railway connection is that the receiving end of his first transmission was in Glasgow Central Station Hotel.

 

Jim

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A friend sent me a photo (probably well-known in railway circles) of an SER-built Royal Mail van of 1896, one of a pair. It's rather dinky and sweet, and was fairly quickly moved to secondary work under the SECR and then the Southern, but even so, I quite like it.

 

image.png.b2db03c02de8457ada3e8452933c3506.png

 

The panelling style is very obviously South Eastern, but the depth of the waist was hard to replicate. 

 

image.png.716069d364ad771c4c6b2463dccb757c.png

 

The doors aren't quite right, nor is the roof or panelling, and there are no gangways, but at any rate, I like it. I might even be swayed to build a pair and employ them on an early morning Blackstone mails train, or attach them to an Up London train. This is also its as-built appearance; in 1911, one of the vans received hinged doors nearer the ends. It isn't specified in Gould if both ends received a door or not, but it is noted that they were panelled in the same style so as to not interrupt the lines of the carriage. This is not very clear at all on the SECR line drawing:

 

image.png.1d9b5b16fbc6f8ba98a8df43791148cd.png

 

I presume it's the recess on the top side of the lower drawing? If so, Gould doesn't seem to have it right with his notion of 'end of the van'... 

 

The pair ran with a six-wheel van, too, and allegedly were trialled alongside an LNWR mail van at one point but the LNWR Society are highly doubtful of this, finding no record of such a thing happening. I believe they would have possibly remained in lake for longer than other passenger-rated vehicles by virtue of their importance and lesser use than actual passenger-carrying stock? Interestingly, the six-wheel vehicle appears to have been used on the end of the set, and they were fitted throughout with telescopic buffers and gangways. 

 

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Post Office vehicles were built to GPO specifications, so their layout is rather consistent between companies, although panelling style*, length, and other details followed company practice; Wolverton built 42 ft, 50 ft and finally 57 ft vehicles for WCJS and LNWR use; Derby, 43 ft, 48 ft, and 54 ft for M&NEJPS and Midland postal trains. I believe 44 ft was a standard SER carriage length? The sliding doors on the nearside (corridor side) were de rigueur. These slid on the inside; on the northern lines these carriages were usually equipped with traductor arms for dropping off mailbags into the lineside appartus, which would be in the way of an outside sliding door. It's evident from the photograph that the South Eastern mail route was not so equipped. The offside of the carriage would have had sorting pigeonholes along most of its length; I strongly suspect that one of the pair had a different internal arrangement with some part of the carriage given over to "staff accommodation" - probably the means to make tea, but not a loo. That the diagram only lists qty 1 suggests that the other was on a different diagram owing to different internal arrangements. What the offside of the vehicle looks like is a problem, in the absence of a photo - it looks as if there might be a window, possibly sliding? 

 

I'm uncertain of the purpose of the box to the side of each door, with a vertical pipe. On LNWR and Midland PO vehicles, these are more semicircular in plan and the pipe clearly extends above the eves - are they for ventilation? These SER vehicles have a rather interesting low clerestory, obviously for ventilation, surmounted by a row of skylights - these would make for an attractive and unusual model (code for: looks tricky to do). The location of the lettering V (crown) R POST OFFICE suggests that a letterbox was hung nearby, taken in seconds before departure, though its not obvious where this would be fixed. Some PO vahicles had built-in letterboxes but on photographs of Midland vehicles there is a bracket, whilst one photo of a LNWR vehicles shows the box in situ

 

PO vehicles ran in rigidly set formations; consequently the Derby-built 6-wheelers of 1879  that were intended for one end of the formation only had a gangway at one end. Did the SER 6-wheeler have gangways at both ends?

 

*Derby-built PO vehicles followed the standard Midland panelling style in use when they were built but Wolverton-built vehicles differed from the standard LNWR panelling style by having a waist panel. The SER copied the LNWR panelling style for ordinary carriages, so it's interesting to see that Wolverton practice has been followed for PO vehicles.

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That box on the side of the mailvan was a little lamp, with the pipe forming a chimney. It’s purpose was to melt sealing wax should the postal workers require to seal any envelopes or packages.

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3 hours ago, bbishop said:

Alex, they look like single sliding doors to me.  Bill

 

I know the main doors were sliding, I meant on the other side, there was allegedly a hinged door, visible on the lower drawing. 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

That the diagram only lists qty 1 suggests that the other was on a different diagram owing to different internal arrangements. What the offside of the vehicle looks like is a problem, in the absence of a photo - it looks as if there might be a window, possibly sliding? 

 

Yes, both were initially the same internal diagram but were both downgraded to storage only, but possibly not at the same time, hence the two diagram variations. 

 

No. 350 had a gangway at one end only, 351 being through-gangwayed.

 

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

PO vehicles ran in rigidly set formations; consequently the Derby-built 6-wheelers of 1879  that were intended for one end of the formation only had a gangway at one end. Did the SER 6-wheeler have gangways at both ends?

 

I thought it was a door, but a window may also make sense, if it called at a station on the "wrong" side, things could be passed through it? 

 

The 6-wheel carriage had gangways at one end, according to this:

 

unknown.png.62268e7aa6cd783153e3471fb60bcea1.png

 

But Gould states that the 6-wheel van they ran with, 240, had through gangways fitted around 1896.

I'm not certain this is the correct diagram.

 

It's interesting to hear that the SER adopted Wolverton style panelling, I didn't know that. It certainly explains why people have said in the past some LNWR carriage kits may (and that's a very tentative may) be suitable for bashing into SER vehicles. 

 

At any rate, one for the SECRSoc. 

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2 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

Yes, both were initially the same internal diagram but were both downgraded to storage only, but possibly not at the same time, hence the two diagram variations. 

 

No. 350 had a gangway at one end only, 351 being through-gangwayed.

 

 

I thought it was a door, but a window may also make sense, if it called at a station on the "wrong" side, things could be passed through it? 

 

The 6-wheel carriage had gangways at one end, according to this:

 

So if you have a three-car PO set 350 / 351 / the 6-wheeler in your diagram, would the gangways all match up with non-ganwayed ends at the extremities?

 

The working would be arranged to ensure that platforms were always on the nearside of the PO vehicles - the train being turned on a convenient triangle for the return journey (I think both Cannon Street and Dover Marine provided those? But some sides of the Dover triangle were LCDR not SER?) Anyway, was the SER postal non-stop?

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The PO van illustrated in this article (scroll well down) would appear to be a later and possibly longer vehicle of SECR build - it's marked E (crown) R rather than V (crown) R. The sealing wax lamps on this appear to have the same half-round shape as those on LNWR/WCJS and Midland post office vans.

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This photo by C. Laundy (who he?) appeared in the August 1920 Railway Magazine.  Gladstone (B1) class 0-4-2 No 174 (formerly "Fratton") heading a London Bridge to Eastbourne and Hastings train.  Set number 124 prominent on the brake end of the first carriage.

Gladstone-1920.jpg

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Now that's an interesting photo, which, when I was looking up the numbers for the set, led me to finding a photograph In Gould of set 40 (a ten carriage set) on Hastings duties. According to him, this was typically an out and back Brighton to London rake. 

 

I've only four carriages left for 40, which I imagine were Billinton thirds or composites. 

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3 hours ago, Tom Burnham said:

This photo by C. Laundy (who he?) appeared in the August 1920 Railway Magazine. 

Presumably Cecil Ernest Laundy, of Harrow and later Dorking, whose photographic collection (820 negatives, 8 prints, 5 lantern slides) is in the NRM archives -
C Laundy
Cecil Laundy was born on 1 March 1880 and was a cousin of Kenneth Leech, whose work is
also represented in the NRM collections. The museum acquired the Laundy collection in 1985
and it is composed almost entirely of glass and film negatives, together with eight prints which
show Laundy's family at the turn of the century. Most of the photographs are by Cecil Laundy,
but a small number are possibly by H Gordon Tidey and Robert Brookman (qv). The subjects
covered include the railways of Hertfordshire, particularly the Great Northern, Midland and
LNWR lines near Potters Bar and Hitchin. There are also some LBSCR views, whilst other
lines covered include the Southern, South Eastern & Chatham Railway, LNER, Midland & Great
Northern Joint, Great Central and Great Eastern Railways. Laundy died in 1945. 

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