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5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Based on those pictures, I would agree that the GWR paint is the better choice.

 

The 'proper' SE&CR paint looks too dark and too brown.  

 

Will you apply over a 'red oxide' undercoat, e.g. Halford's red primer?

 

Out of interest, below is a comparison between a rather old school or traditional depiction of SE&CR lake, flanked by two coaches in GWR 1912 lake livery, of which, I feel the left hand one is too brown. The right hand one might better pass for the SE colour.

 

20210413_145351.jpg.dca048b12a18c4afa6fd93067909ca19.jpg

 

 

I will be using a red primer, yes - I've got a pound shop one I need to use up, really. It's more brown than red, but still useable. I'll have to look at getting a truer red primer. And I agree, I like this example of SE&CR lake above, it's more 'right' to my eye (and I see the correct lake-painted Mansells, too - a feature a lot of modellers seem to skip). The carriage on the right does look very good, perhaps a worn-in SE&CR livery option? As I say, I don't mind having 1001 lake shades running around, I think it looks more interesting than the same old paint tin. 

 

Incidentally, I've just finished detailing the Kirk Maunsell underframes, they'll be due for a matte black spray soon. 

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Well good morning to you all from dreary London of all places. 

 

As some of you will know, I've had to undergo a personal medical intervention that's been a long time coming. I'm recovering slowly, and feeling far better than I expected to. By the time I'm home on Sunday, I'll be on full time rest and recuperation, so I don't know how much modelling I'll get done, but I'll certainly try to chime in on threads and updates from time to time, and with any writings I may have done (I've a few small ideas for my dissertation I may try and do some drafts for in the meantime).

 

Thank you all for your support, both personally and with my railway academia, it means a huge amount and I'm glad to have such a supportive community around me. 

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Good evening all,

 

Just a quick post regarding something I found in a newspaper archive that's got me thinking, especially since I received my Rails/Dapol D class. 

 

From the Saturday 20 April 1907 edition of the Hastings St Leonards Observer, the author of the article, Hastings and the SER, suggests that whenever they have enquired as to why 'powerful express engines' can't be used on the route (And by that I am assuming the author means the D and E classes), the correspondent replied by saying the turntable at Hastings was too small. Now, I believe that the turntable at the time was 42' (later extended to 45'?), and so therefore was much inadequate to turn these locomotives, hence the reliance on the older Stirling designs, and possible usage of LCDR M series engines, too. This explains the profusion of Stirling designs in photos of Hastings trains, along with the occasional M3 spotted at the station, too (I believe these were on Brighton through services from Ashford, due to their dual-braking). 

 

It's interesting to me, as often when the D and later L classes are discussed they're noted for their work on the Hastings line as well as on the Kent Coast trains, so for them to not be able to be used so early on in their career on a 'prestige' route seems odd?

 

 

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11 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

It's interesting to me, as often when the D and later L classes are discussed they're noted for their work on the Hastings line as well as on the Kent Coast trains, so for them to not be able to be used so early on in their career on a 'prestige' route seems odd?

Is it a question of cascading? Was the Hastings line simply not regarded, in the early days of the SECR, as being of equal status to the Kent Coast and Channel Ports services, and there was insufficient number to run to Hastings as well? Then, when more powerful locos became available for those routes, they were transferred to lesser duties including Hastings, perhaps.

 

Just a guess, but it's how things worked - and still do to some extent. 

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11 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

From the Saturday 20 April 1907 edition of the Hastings St Leonards Observer, the author of the article, Hastings and the SER, suggests that whenever they have enquired as to why 'powerful express engines' can't be used on the route (And by that I am assuming the author means the D and E classes), the correspondent replied by saying the turntable at Hastings was too small.

 

Stirling's F class, built between 1883 and 1898, were no doubt still masters of their task on that route, so why replace them?

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Also a very valid point which I expect the article author hadn't taken into consideration. It was just something I found interesting to consider. But you're quite right, the Stirlings were still in their prime, so it would be fruitless to replace them so early on. 

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A break in-between reading articles on postcolonial and orientalist theory; 

 

Bexhill-On-Sea Observer, August 16th 1930, West of England Train Service:

 

'The Southern Railway announces a restaurant car through train to the west of England, leaving Bexhill Central each day at 10:8am, and providing a connection at Brighton at 11:30am. It serves nineteen stations between Salisbury and Plymouth, arriving at the latter place at 6:37pm.'

 

This might be a bit of supposition but was this train a connecting service for passengers to join the actual Brighton - Plymouth service, or was it a 'proper' through train? Because the Southern seems to be a bit coy about the facts, I've noticed. A train that went properly along the coast wouldn't be unheard of - see services between Hastings or Deal and Portsmouth or even Chatham and Portsmouth - but I'm finding myself a little unconvinced at the moment. If it were to be a fully-fledged through service, I anticipate the use of an Ironclad restaurant car, possibly, or perhaps a Maunsell D. 2651, inserted into a set somewhere? I can dream of an LSWR restaurant all I like, it's likely not going to happen... 

 

This begs the question, though, what was the purpose of such a long route on home metals, unless it was to avoid having to break journeys along the way? 

 

Thoughts are welcome as ever. 

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25 minutes ago, AVS1998 said:

leaving Bexhill Central each day at 10:8am, and providing a connection at Brighton at 11:30am.

 

That doesn't sound "through" to me. 

 

25 minutes ago, AVS1998 said:

This begs the question, though, what was the purpose of such a long route on home metals, unless it was to avoid having to break journeys along the way? 

 

Despite being apparently so slow and stopping everywhere, it would probably provide the quickest way to travel between Bexhill and Exeter, averaging around 35 mph between Brighton and Plymouth. If you allow 3 minutes on average for twenty stops, that goes up to a running average of 40 mph. 

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1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That doesn't sound "through" to me. 

 

That's what I thought. I'm definitely learning that it's all in how things are phrased when it comes to 'new', 'through' and 'direct' services!

 

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Despite being apparently so slow and stopping everywhere, it would probably provide the quickest way to travel between Bexhill and Exeter.

 

That would make sense, as otherwise I expect it'd be a journey all the way into London and then all the way back out?

 

Still a 260 mile journey though, thereabouts. 

 

So it's likely more a connection from Bexhill to Brighton, thence onward to the west. Disappointing but realistic. 

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4 minutes ago, AVS1998 said:

That would make sense, as otherwise I expect it'd be a journey all the way into London and then all the way back out?

 

Which is what one would do nowadays, travelling light. But with mountains of luggage and fares calculated per mile...

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Indeed. 

 

The Sussex Agricultural Express clarifies things (August 15th, 1930); 

 

'Every week-day the Southern Railway is running a through restaurant car service from Brighton to the West of England. The train leaves Brighton at 11:30am and there are connecting trains from other East Sussex stations.' 

 

That's the matter settled, then. 

 

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