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Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work


Jack P
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On 15/03/2021 at 22:53, jafcreasey said:

 

Some absolutely exquisite modelling there, @Jack P.  It seems 'harsh' to single-out just two subjects, but the weathering of the PO wagons and Warwell (especially) deserve special mention... :clapping:

 

Thanks mate, I appreciate the kind words. 

 

I tried to figure out where I had the most work to do, and the stark reality shewed that coaching/freight stock has taken a backseat to locomotive activities. So i'm trying to 'catch up'! It also means doing things i've not done yet, like weathering coaching stock, modifying wagons, etc. all good fun!

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13 hours ago, Jack P said:

DMR Z

 

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I spent Friday and Saturday getting to grips with the DMR Z. And this is the current state of play, things have just been plonked together in the photos though. If I'm honest, I've had a real mare of a time keeping things square, I re-did the reason footplate curve a few times, but for whatever reason, wasn't able to get it right, this means that the bunker might need shimming up ever so slightly to avoid an odd upward slope. I followed DLT's steps in adding the extra 0.4mm each side of the rear bunker plate to avoid having it curve inwards. I've also cheated a little and instead of using the thin rain strips I've used brass rod, it doesn't look so good in bare metal, but it's less obnoxious when painted - this was so I could make the cab roof removable. I also followed Dave's steps with the smokebox saddle, although mine isn't as nice as his, I chose to take the difficult route and solder the riveted saddle plate to the scratchbuilt lower half, instead of the smokebox. it doesn't extend as far back as it should, but the sand box will hide that. I may still just cut the saddle down a touch instead.

 

Overall I'm a little disheartened with how it's turned out, as I tried really hard to go slowly and try to get everything to match up, but keeping it square has been so difficult. Having said that, paint will hide a multitude of sins, and it will certainly look like a Z. annoyingly the crossheads were missing from the kit, so now I need to go through the process of getting some replacements. Plenty more to be getting on with in the mean time, everything needs a really good clean.

 

Interested that you have started your Z, "er indoors" bought me the kit for Christmas, although it is in a queue and therefore won't be started for a while, I will be interested to see how you get on.
You shouldn't be disheartened Jack, in the photos it looks really good.

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On 15/03/2021 at 07:55, Jack P said:

......liquor advertising paraphernalia and other exciting things. I believe this kick-started a lifetime of tinkering.

 

And drinking...??

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15 hours ago, Jack P said:

I spent Friday and Saturday getting to grips with the DMR Z. And this is the current state of play, things have just been plonked together in the photos though. If I'm honest, I've had a real mare of a time keeping things square, I re-did the reason footplate curve a few times, but for whatever reason, wasn't able to get it right, this means that the bunker might need shimming up ever so slightly to avoid an odd upward slope. I followed DLT's steps in adding the extra 0.4mm each side of the rear bunker plate to avoid having it curve inwards. I've also cheated a little and instead of using the thin rain strips I've used brass rod, it doesn't look so good in bare metal, but it's less obnoxious when painted - this was so I could make the cab roof removable. I also followed Dave's steps with the smokebox saddle, although mine isn't as nice as his, I chose to take the difficult route and solder the riveted saddle plate to the scratchbuilt lower half, instead of the smokebox. it doesn't extend as far back as it should, but the sand box will hide that. I may still just cut the saddle down a touch instead.

 

Overall I'm a little disheartened with how it's turned out, as I tried really hard to go slowly and try to get everything to match up, but keeping it square has been so difficult. Having said that, paint will hide a multitude of sins, and it will certainly look like a Z. annoyingly the crossheads were missing from the kit, so now I need to go through the process of getting some replacements. Plenty more to be getting on with in the mean time, everything needs a really good clean.

 

The Z is looking great Jack, you should definitely not be disheartened!  You have dealt with the main issues; bunker shape and smokebox saddle; the other thing I found that needed a bit of fiddling and filing was getting the boiler sitting between the tanks, and level, with the tanksides remaining vertical.  Thinking back, I remember that the footplate had a tendency to twist inwards in the middle, making the tanks slope inwards.  To locate the rear of the boiler I had to file the tanks back a bit and attach some sort of support on the front of the cab to give it a positive location.  Otherwise its a bit hit & miss.

I see your kit has whitemetal chimney and dome, that's odd, mine were brass.

 

Looking at all you other recent updates, some really stunning stuff.

 

All the best, Dave.

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6 hours ago, gz3xzf said:

Interested that you have started your Z, "er indoors" bought me the kit for Christmas, although it is in a queue and therefore won't be started for a while, I will be interested to see how you get on.
You shouldn't be disheartened Jack, in the photos it looks really good.

 

Ah Excellent Bryan, as you've probably seen on DLT's thread, he has built two of them and the associated log makes for extremely helpful reading. Thank you for your kind words about my build so far!

 

4 hours ago, DLT said:

 

And drinking...??

 

Not at 10, I waited a few (not many) extra years.

 

4 hours ago, DLT said:

 

The Z is looking great Jack, you should definitely not be disheartened!  You have dealt with the main issues; bunker shape and smokebox saddle; the other thing I found that needed a bit of fiddling and filing was getting the boiler sitting between the tanks, and level, with the tanksides remaining vertical.  Thinking back, I remember that the footplate had a tendency to twist inwards in the middle, making the tanks slope inwards.  To locate the rear of the boiler I had to file the tanks back a bit and attach some sort of support on the front of the cab to give it a positive location.  Otherwise its a bit hit & miss.

I see your kit has whitemetal chimney and dome, that's odd, mine were brass.

 

Looking at all you other recent updates, some really stunning stuff.

 

All the best, Dave.

 

Thanks Dave, I appreciate your support! I feel like there could be something to locate the boiler on the front cab face, without that there's a lot of trial and error. I should've added a support at the front of the tanks, but at this late stage I probably won't bother. Weirdly one side seems to fit perfectly, but the other has a bit of a gap. More tweaking is needed. This is the state of play after much adjusting last night, looks the same, but the smokebox saddle is now soldered in position, and the boiler is soldered in place. The cab/tanks are still just sitting in place, and you can see the rear isn't pushed fully home.

 

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I was actually going to PM you about that, I wasn't sure if yours were cast, or if it was just the lighting. Strange... Mine was also missing the crossheads and all of the vac/steam heat pipes. I called Phoenix and they asked me to email them - nothing yet, but I did call Friday morning UK time, so we shall see. 

 

I'll probably take a break from the body and tackle the rest of the chassis The basic construction is complete, next steps will be the brake rigging and as much of the motion as I can mange without the crossheads.

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  • Jack P changed the title to Southern Railway Modelling - DMR Z and other stories

Update!

 

I've put the Z away for now, just to get a bit of a break from kitbuilding. Still waiting on a response from phoenix RE: the crossheads. 

 

Terrier!

 

Wooo! Nearly a year after ordering it, my sound fitted rails terrier arrived.

 

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With some help from a friend, and the book: 'Stroudley and his Terriers' by Tom Middlemass, I settled on 2662 as the backdated number of this project. I need to knock up the tank top ventilators, as they aren't sold separately by Dapol, and in 1947 2662 had them fitted. Speaking of separately fitted, there is a  wealth of detail that this model has had applied. Weirdly it seems to have been applied with a sort of 'tacky-wax' instead of glue, it's not a big deal, because it meant that I could remove it all without breaking anything. Once the painting is complete, it can all be glued back in place.

 

Frustratingly, lots of southern locos seem to have the cab interiors painted yellow, the upcoming SECR D looks to suffer from this and the terrier was also no exception. I took the opportunity to correct this while the terrier was in bits, and also painted the floor cream (ready for weathering to look like wood). The splashers and tool cabinets (?) in the cab were painted black. I picked out some of the backhead detail. I still want to add some fuse wire running to the gauges. 

 

The rest of the body came apart easily and is now ready for primer and paint. I ended up having to strip the side tanks with cellulose thinners to get the rest of the lining off. Not a big deal, but time consuming. Hoping to have this one finished before we head off for Easter.

 

 

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2662 was a good choice as we found out ;) For reference, we found that a lot of the Terriers during the war were held up dead inside like Fratton or didn't move around at all (like works or dock shunter). 2662 was still being used on Hayling Island Branch, while being based at Fratton. Six Terriers were based there, four of them were in storage there, while 2 were being used. I must have skipped over it, but I did not see what number the other Terrier based at Fratton was. We both opted to not use any IOW bunker Terriers.

 

It's too bad Hornby's 2662 Olive is incorrect for both pictures that book had! For everyone else, Hornby produced 2662 with a flush riveted smokebox and no condensing pipes. A mid 1937 pic showed her with condensing pipes and riveted smokebox. The second pic showed her in 1947 with no condensing pipes, but still with the riveted smokebox. Why did I buy this Terrier at the same time as I bought the book? The world may never (or I saw a good deal on it XD )

 

Now what to do with this Terrier I have? I'm thinking a Bluebell black Stepney! I will follow Jack with a purchase of a Dapol Terrier only for the fact the smokebox plate is super easy to remove. 

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7 hours ago, Ribird said:

2662 was a good choice as we found out

 

Indeed! However, I might need to add a Westinghouse pump and the associated pipework/front vacuum hose. As far as we can tell, the one photo we've been able to find of 2662 in Sunshine livery, has the 3 pipes at the front, which I think implies the existence of a pump on the cabside. No huge deal, just wish I'd realised before the loco got to the stage it's at!

 

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The loco was primed and painted black, my new go to is Tamiya Semi gloss Lacquer. Dries super fast and is extremely easy to use. Riley is right, the Rails model had a front numberplate that was extremely easy to remove. It's a plate with two prongs on the back that clip into two small holes above the top strap in the smokebox door. I mixed up some tamiya putty and filled the holes, sanding it down when all was dry.

 

I decided that The cab needed something 'more', there has been much debate about which is better (Hornby/Rails), both have their advantages and disadvantages - but the Hornby model has the more detailed cab, hands down. Using some of the smallest fuse wire I had, I decided to add the pipe runs from the gauges down the sides of the backhead. I know these should be copper coloured, but painting them before bending/gluing them in place wasn't working so well. I also gave the floor a wash of dirty brown, not exactly like wood, but pretty close. Reverser painted red and weathered with a dirty wash and some metalcote. I also added a piece of L shaped plasticard over the top of the firebox door, it looks like compared to prototype photos firebox door is too far up the backhead. There is also a shelf present and the plasticard helps to represent that too. It's not the most extra detailing I could've done, there are plenty of other little gubbins all around the cab, but this is an improvement I think. Once there's a crew in place I think it'll hide most of it anyway.

 

The loco is now all back together, with the separately fitted detail glued in place and screw links added. She also received a coat of gloss varnish, I'll now let this dry for the next few days and then follow through with numbering and lettering. It will also allow me time to figure out whether or not I need to add the westinghouse stuff.  I was pretty happy when the body went back onto the chassis with no issues. 

 

Some of the photos aren't great, it's a combination of the loco being super glossy and my phone camera being zoomed in. Hopefully more updates soon!

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32 minutes ago, Jack P said:

 

Indeed! However, I might need to add a Westinghouse pump and the associated pipework/front vacuum hose. As far as we can tell, the one photo we've been able to find of 2662 in Sunshine livery, has the 3 pipes at the front, which I think implies the existence of a pump on the cabside. No huge deal, just wish I'd realised before the loco got to the stage it's at!


Well like you pointed out today, my Hornby model of 2662 is incorrect from the factory! As every other picture I look at of the Hornby model, has rivets on the smokebox! Attached below is my model, which I mistakenly bought at the same time as the book, whoops, not realizing there would be so many differences between each one during their A1x rebuilds! 
 

Here is the caption from the Stroudley and his Terrier book about Martello. Along with the picture of Martello in 1947

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ED05FCA7-3BB0-4CF0-B71C-7D64939F0162.jpeg

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The ‘three pipes’ you mention definitely imply Westinghouse gear. The one beneath the buffer beam is stream heat (and all passenger engines had that) with vac and air pipes above. 
 

One thing though, 2662 has an Isle of Wight bunker in all the BR pictures I’ve seen (I’ve considered modelling it) and which it retains in preservation. 
 

Adam

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1 hour ago, Adam said:

The ‘three pipes’ you mention definitely imply Westinghouse gear. The one beneath the buffer beam is steam heat (and all passenger engines had that) with vac and air pipes above. 
 

One thing though, 2662 has an Isle of Wight bunker in all the BR pictures I’ve seen (I’ve considered modelling it) and which it retains in preservation. 
 

Adam

 

Dapol sell the pump as a spare, I've ordered one on the off chance that it comes with the pipework too. I'll figure out the Vac/air pipe arrangement with what i've got in the spares box. Time to start on the pipework under the footplate.

 

I'm not sure if you've seen this image of 2662 in BR early crest:

 

 

32662 Newhaven with the dock cranes

 

There's also this one, the loco by now has the IOW bunker and late crest:

 

32662 Eastleigh Stroudley Terrier tank

 

I'm pretty sure that at the end of southern days it had the standard bunker, but I haven't been able to find any direct side on shots to confirm this. Riley's photo above certainly looks like the smaller of the two, but as it's a front 3/4 shot I can't be 100% sure.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Adam said:

The ‘three pipes’ you mention definitely imply Westinghouse gear. The one beneath the buffer beam is stream heat (and all passenger engines had that) with vac and air pipes above. 
 

One thing though, 2662 has an Isle of Wight bunker in all the BR pictures I’ve seen (I’ve considered modelling it) and which it retains in preservation. 
 

Adam

Although most passenger locos were equipped for steam heating, the general practice was to remove the pipes during summer, when no heating would be required/provided.  So three pipes only should appear in colder times, although most layouts are set in summertime.

 

1 hour ago, Jack P said:

 

Dapol sell the pump as a spare, I've ordered one on the off chance that it comes with the pipework too. I'll figure out the Vac/air pipe arrangement with what i've got in the spares box. Time to start on the pipework under the footplate.

 

I'm not sure if you've seen this image of 2662 in BR early crest:

 

 

32662 Newhaven with the dock cranes

 

There's also this one, the loco by now has the IOW bunker and late crest:

 

32662 Eastleigh Stroudley Terrier tank

 

I'm pretty sure that at the end of southern days it had the standard bunker, but I haven't been able to find any direct side on shots to confirm this. Riley's photo above certainly looks like the smaller of the two, but as it's a front 3/4 shot I can't be 100% sure.

 

 

According to Middlemass, 32662 was sent to Eastleigh for a last repair and repaint in January 1961:- "Brighton shed staff must have been agreeably surprised when No. 32662 reported back in April 1961, carrying an Isle of Wight type bunker which had once belonged to 'Terrier' No. 32677.  Patently there was life in the old dog yet!"

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5 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

32662 Eastleigh Stroudley Terrier tank

 

Yes, 2662 did gain an IOW bunker later on, forgot what year! But definitely was in BR days when it received it. Also, of course all of the pictures of 2662 in the Stroudley book show its left side. 

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21 hours ago, Ribird said:


Well like you pointed out today, my Hornby model of 2662 is incorrect from the factory! As every other picture I look at of the Hornby model, has rivets on the smokebox! Attached below is my model, which I mistakenly bought at the same time as the book, whoops, not realizing there would be so many differences between each one during their A1x rebuilds! 
 

Here is the caption from the Stroudley and his Terrier book about Martello. Along with the picture of Martello in 1947

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E79842B2-DCB9-4CF1-95AC-E176F0849E27.jpeg

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That's definitely an air pipe above the buffer beam, you can just about see the tap. This clearly shows the routing of the vac ejector pipe along the boiler that I was questioning in the other thread - some had it router differently, with a kink near the smokebox. 

 

I wonder why Hornby didn't include it on 2662, when they did on others?

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9 minutes ago, Nick C said:

That's definitely an air pipe above the buffer beam, you can just about see the tap. This clearly shows the routing of the vac ejector pipe along the boiler that I was questioning in the other thread - some had it router differently, with a kink near the smokebox. 

 

I wonder why Hornby didn't include it on 2662, when they did on others?

No idea? Oh yes, that's something else I have to add, that pipe for the vac ejector on top of the boiler. 

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So the consensus: westinghouse pump to be added, along with a suite of pipework, and another bufferbeam vac/air hose (whichever it is). I'll also add those tank vents, should've done that last night but instead I was doing this:

 

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She now has an identity. Aforementioned details still to go, but that will have to wait (international shipping..)

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On 01/04/2021 at 01:40, Nick C said:

The hoses she's got onthe bufferbeams look like air to me, so you'll need to add Vacuum. Will you also be replacing the coal rails with ones correctly aligned with the edges of the bunker?

 

That's a good question - These ones are easy enough to remove, so I don't see why not. I'll have a play around with making some when I get back home.

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  • 2 weeks later...

A few updates:

 

0395

 

After seeing DLT's work on the 0395 for Beaminster Road, I decided to grab mine off the shelf and check how far I'd managed to get. Mike Edge and DLT had remarked on the cab cutouts looking wrong. As such, I had already decided to make a new cab. I also really liked the look of the members of the class that later received Ex-LCDR M3 boilers. On a slighlty foolish impulse, I also ordered one of the Martin Finney Adams 3300 Gal tenders, from Brassmasters.

 

The brief was now: M3 boiler, Round spectacle cab, Adams 3300 Gal Tender. Luckily 3506 is exactly the loco I'm after. 

 

A postwar portrait of former LSWR, Adams 0395 class 0-6-0 no. 3506 of 1885 vintage at Guildford. 3506 would be BR branded with the number 30580 in April 1948 whilst allocated to Guildford mpd and would be withdrawn at the same shed in June 1957. [Mike Morant collection]

 

This meant it was time to start cutting. I had a pair of 0395 frames from Alan Gibson, which were an excellent starting point, I added a riveted ashpan to this arrangement. Next was to mark out the new running plate on some PCB. This isn't something i've done before, but now is as good a time as any. I also cut some brass tube to form the new smokebox. This is a first draft of sorts as The front plate will need to extend down to meet the footplate on a revised version. 

 

My intention had been to add brass cut to size on top of this (effectively making the sides of the PCB the valances). I've hit a bit of a snag though, the PCB i'm using is a bit thick, which means the brass would further compound the issue, making the locomotive sit too high on the frames. The 5'0" drivers from AG, while only being a fraction smaller, probbly compound this issue (they don't have 5'1" drivers that suit).

 

Next steps;

- I'm considering adpating a Comet 4F chassis to suit instead of the AG frames, the AG ones are great, but the guard irons on the front are wrong, nothing insurmountable, but I think the 4f chassis looks better.

- Source some thinner PCB and re-cut the footplate

- Rework the smokebox

 

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(everything posed together here, with the kit's WM cab)

It's gone back in the box until the tender arrives. Although, the Finney kit is 110 parts... which is, daunting. 

 

 

Ex- SECR Continental 

 

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I happened across a box in my stash of kits, upon opening I found some forgotten Worsley Works scratch-aids for an Ex-SECR Continental. Some time at the bench on Sunday resulted in two bare sub assemblies. Chassis, and body. Though I'm'm not convinced I've done it right as I can't tell if the sides should overhang the solebars? I've added a spacer in the middle to keep everything square,

 

I beefed up the queen posts with some scrap etch. Helping me not; 1. bend them by mistake, and 2. making the depth look a bit more convincing. I'm still working on the position of the V hangars, it really looks like the D.427's had these on the outside of the queen posts, photos are scarce though. The kit comes with some, and I also have some spare, shorter Roxey ones. The rest of the bits underneath I have whitmetal components for. The battery boxes need handles added and then will be fixed in place. An order to Roxey for some bogies will be next. 

 

I'm not sure what the best option for a Roof is, I'm thinking brass sheet rolled and then cut to size might be the best, and the strongest option. Lots left to do. 

 

 

Jidenco T14

 

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Quite how i'm going to justify a T14 on the Central/Eastern section in 1947, I don't know. But I really like the look of these things, and when this was advertised on Ebay as INCOMPLETE, (despite having all the etches needed for the Maunsell rebuilt version) I had hoped it would go for a song. I've read much about this brand, so have some idea of what to expect.

 

Further updates in due course!

 

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1 hour ago, AVS1998 said:

That Conti is looking tasty, Jack! I'm jealous! I think there is supposed to be an overhang; on Wainwright designs the body overhung the chassis by an inch, sometimes a little more, so I expect it to be the same scenario here? 

 

Thanks Alex, I probably didn't describe it accurately. I mean the sides extending down past the top of the sole bar, overhang in the vertical sense opposed to the horizontal.

 

Does that clarify? :wacko:

 

Yes, the T14 was a bit of a bargain. Especially as it came with wheels though these will be replaced with Gibsons. I think my justification is that for my 'eventual' layout, there will be a scenic section that could be 'somewhere' in southern England, avoiding the need to limit myself so heavily. 

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