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Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work


Jack P
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Hi Gents, don't know if this will be useful on the discussion on the valve gear, but whilst walking past Eddystone yesterday I took a couple of photos of the interesting bit: -

20210514_123839.jpg.2db87febf0fd63a5e32b9f1bf77f524b.jpg20210514_123847.jpg.7fa7178f4ace9cfe38f1dc1e5fe381ed.jpg20210514_123854.jpg.c10e4069c434166ff88e64cc2ba7565c.jpg20210514_123903.jpg.8e44fa39c9d12bca487e22db490813d1.jpg

Sorry about the number of similar shots but I wanted to get as much detail as possible.

As @Michael Edge says there is a short link between the rocking link and the valve spindle to translate the rocking motion to parallel motion.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

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On 15/05/2021 at 20:57, gz3xzf said:

Sorry about the number of similar shots but I wanted to get as much detail as possible.

 

This is exceedingly useful Bryan, thanks for the detail photos!

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On 13/05/2021 at 14:04, Jack P said:

Tonight and any time I can find over the weekend will be working on scratch building the bits needed to finish off the motion. I've ordered some square brass tube and will have a go at making my own crossheads

 

Ok so this didn't really happen. Numerous open homes and other domestic tasks took up most of our time this weekend.

 

I did manage to get some modelling done. 

 

Hornby GBL:

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My order from Kernow arrived, and I set about repainting one of the new GBLs. 2465 was identified as being in malachite in early 1950, and so with no evidence to the contrary I decided this would be the one. 

I've modelled the window bars 'broken' in one of the windows, something I on a smaller 4w Van. 

The model has had a light wash applied, further weathering will proceed when the others are ready. 

 

Rails Terrier:

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I spent a few hours last night getting this close to being finished. I ordered a westinghouse pump from Branchlines, which is the final piece of the puzzle.

Much like with the I3, there are a lot of pipes that run under the bufferbeam. These were all bent up from copper wire, lots of trial and error. I also added the chain that holds the front lower vac hose.

 

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Here she is with the pipes painted black and an initial light weathering on the bufferbeam, I also brush painted matte black onto the smokebox to get rid of the shiny gloss coat. 

It's not perfect, but I think it looks better with the pipes, than without. 

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OH, I actually did do something else this weekend.

Dad's good mates with the Alfa dealer here, and they had a Giulia Quadrifoglio on the lot, so with some arm twisting...

 

51184095634_e0412b5404_h.jpg

 

It was immense fun, I love Italian cars. I am now campaigning for dad to buy it. 

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Update:

 

Replaced my halogen lamp with a much larger, brighter LED lamp. Makes a huge difference, and actually helps significantly with photographs. 

 

51193873402_2ce05aaf1d_h.jpg

 

Terrier:

 

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I ordered an AG westinghouse pump, not perfect, but very close. I then made up the remainder of the pipework, and glued the whole assembly in place. It's finally physically complete - weathering et al to complete it fully. 

 

DMR Z:

 

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I had a few goes at getting the brakes right, eventually though, I got them sorted. I also had a go at some very rudimentary pickups. They worked, but further tweaking is needed. I also have to figure out the best way to do the pickups for the middle non driven axle. I'd like to get some thinner gauge wire, but maybe I should just try and do a better job of hiding it.

 

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Took the pickups off and painted the chassis and cylinder block. 

I've also trimmed the front two crankpins, I might still need to mount the nuts backwards, inside the coupling rod.

I think I'll need to work on the drop link for the valve spindle, as it looks a bit too long. I'm also still debating the working valve gear, it's not impossible, but my concern is the added complexity getting in the way of good running. Having said that, further work will probably need to go on hold until the crossheads arrive. 

 

I3:

 

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I finally got my hands on the 3D printed smokebox door. Dart, lamp iron and handrail in place. It's a little bit on the small side, but significantly better than either of the other options. Perhaps I should've mounted it onto a brass disc first, that would've given it a lip underneath. 

 

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Here's the I3 chassis. It's a bastard. 

This was my second go at getting this chassis to work properly, and something still isn't right. I won't go through every individual issue, but to add another thing to the list of things to do; I want to strip the chassis right down and rebuild it using a highlevel box and AG drivers/rear wheel. I'd also like to do something meaningful with the rear truck, it needs a better pickup arrangement than it's currently got. 

I did consider just buying a new chassis from SEF/Squires, and starting fresh, but we shall see. I'm looking forward to highlevel coming back to the market. 

 

That's all for now

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3 hours ago, Jack P said:

DMR Z:

 

51195644345_a11ba01a27_h.jpg

 

I had a few goes at getting the brakes right, eventually though, I got them sorted. I also had a go at some very rudimentary pickups. They worked, but further tweaking is needed. I also have to figure out the best way to do the pickups for the middle non driven axle. I'd like to get some thinner gauge wire, but maybe I should just try and do a better job of hiding it.

 

 

I would shorten the pickup that's going to the third wheel and divert it to the second wheel.  Then add another one to the third wheel.

Cheers, Dave.

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5 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Is there any radial movement on that trailing axle or is it just sideplay?

 

The hole has been enlarged and there is a springy bit of wire that presses down on a sort of bearing tube thing that's holding the axle.. if that makes sense.

It sort of gives a 'faux' radial movement.

Honestly, that's more by mistake than any sort of actual design. 

 

3 hours ago, DLT said:

 

I would shorten the pickup that's going to the third wheel and divert it to the second wheel.  Then add another one to the third wheel.

Cheers, Dave.

 

Thanks Dave. Not really sure why I even pondered the question. The exceedingly obvious answer is as you so rightly put it, add another pick up. 

 

Appreciate the clarification regardless though. I copied the pickups you fitted to the U class.

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18 minutes ago, Jack P said:

 

The hole has been enlarged and there is a springy bit of wire that presses down on a sort of bearing tube thing that's holding the axle.. if that makes sense.

It sort of gives a 'faux' radial movement.

Honestly, that's more by mistake than any sort of actual design. 

 

 

It won't ride very well unless it does have some radial movement in my experience and the big difference in wheel diameter makes it worse. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that this needs either radial axleboxes (which never work very freely in 4mm scale) or a pony truck are essential. With a rigid frame like this I usually split the frames behind the cab steps (where it isn't very visible) and turn the back part of the frames into a pony truck. That then often leads to difficulties finding the correct pivot point but at least yours doesn't have a gearwheel in the way - see Baldry's rule for finding the pivot point and get as close to it as you can.

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On my I3 the rear axle runs in a tube that is pivoted on an arm between the frames as a sort of internal pony truck that is sprung via a rubbing bar to keep even pressure between the wheels on curves.  The rest of the loco is compensated Sharman style with fixed rear driven axle.   This is the mk2 version with the very necessary longer pivot arm with primitive side control via a bit of piano wire - note the very fine Sharman wheel profile!

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Road holding is excellent, but it would be very difficult to fit current collection with such an arrangement.  Built to EM Gauge standards the frames are narrowed at the rear.  It only needs to traverse a layout with a ruling radius of 3'6" and might manage 3' at a push this being more a function of those air tanks each side of the front bogie.  This loco only collects current from the driving wheels, but being compensated and running on handbuilt points (with live frog) this is never a problem.

 

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That's very similar in operation to the arrangement in our LNER C14 etch, another big 4-4-2T but with somewhat smaller driving wheels.WP_20190130_13_00_06_Pro.jpg.f46ad53c01c9d53319c415c336dc1bb5.jpg

This is arranged with an internal pony truck on the radius of the full size loco's radial axleboxes, taking advantage of the narrowed frames. The photo shows how a gearwheel on the adjacent axle interferes with the pivot position, I didn't check this one against Baldry's rule since the radius was shown in the GA but the loco runs perfectly. Current collection from bogie/pony wheels is something I avoid if at all possible, this one gets by quite happily with just the drivers picking up.

 

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Having seen Steve’s I3 in action I can confirm that it runs very nicely and stays on, even with Mr Sharman’s fine flanges. The varied parentage of South Junction’s p-way (Yeovil MRG’s large EM layout) means trailing wheels left to chance or duff execution are generally shown up quite quickly, mine included...

 

Adam

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Thanks chaps, I really appreciate the expert advice, and always love seeing other models 

 

I'm going to order some replacement wheels from Gibson, and then strip the chassis right down and look to modify it as has been suggested.

Methinks a new HL gearbox at the same time won't go amiss. I'll also add the remaining detail parts that I seem to have completely overlooked - sandboxes et al.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was lucky enough to have another of Hornby's new Merchant's across my bench recently. 

 

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In my haste, i'd forgotten to attach the other buffer step. It's on there now though. 

I don't think the tender is correct, but I didn't look into it too hard. This was the request from the owner. 

 

I'm seriously considering adding one of these blue MN's to the fleet, I am obsessed with it!

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  • Jack P changed the title to Southern Railway Modelling - Original Condition Merchant Navy
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On 27/05/2021 at 01:59, Jack P said:

I've been confusing the masses on facebook, who for some reason don't believe an express passenger loco could ever look anything other than spotless.

 

 

 

Hi Jack,

 

The two MNs look really good, understand that there is more to do but looking really good. I see you use prototype pictures, as do I, it seems an obvious thing to do, but often folks ignore the reality of running a large steam locomotive. They get very dirty very quickly. From about the 1930s there are lots of examples of even top link express locomotives being covered in grime. The cheap labour of the Edwardian period was long past. Post WW2 generally things just got worse although I can think of exceptions - Salisbury did a good job cleaning its loco's and even Basingstoke tried very hard with its fleet - the N15X class for example, were kept very clean in the 1950s and so was 30368!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

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13 hours ago, Jack P said:

I was lucky enough to have another of Hornby's new Merchant's across my bench recently. 

 

51245762529_d19e2f0ab4_h.jpg

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In my haste, i'd forgotten to attach the other buffer step. It's on there now though. 

I don't think the tender is correct, but I didn't look into it too hard. This was the request from the owner. 

 

I'm seriously considering adding one of these blue MN's to the fleet, I am obsessed with it!

Very interested to see this, with two questions.

 

It looks like a 6000g tender, as fitted to the final batch. Is that so, and is it correct for 35015 in this or any other livery? I note you have your doubts.

 

Is the paintwork Hornby's, or yours? It looks too good for Hornby with their usual eggshell finish.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

Edited by John Tomlinson
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13 hours ago, 30368 said:

The two MNs look really good, understand that there is more to do but looking really good. I see you use prototype pictures, as do I, it seems an obvious thing to do, but often folks ignore the reality of running a large steam locomotive. They get very dirty very quickly. From about the 1930s there are lots of examples of even top link express locomotives being covered in grime. The cheap labour of the Edwardian period was long past. Post WW2 generally things just got worse although I can think of exceptions - Salisbury did a good job cleaning its loco's and even Basingstoke tried very hard with its fleet - the N15X class for example, were kept very clean in the 1950s and so was 30368!

 

Thanks Richard!

 

You're certainly preaching to the choir there. 1947 (my usual modelling period), gives a real mixed bag, as things started to get better. You have filthy locos that hadn't been repainted since before the war, and others turned out in post war malachite. A real dichotomy. Working from pictures really is the only way - though finding pictures is sometimes the biggest challenge!

 

Here's my rather grubby N15x

 

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11 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Very interested to see this, with two questions.

It looks like a 6000g tender, as fitted to the final batch. Is that so, and is it correct for 35015 in this or any other livery? I note you have your doubts.

Is the paintwork Hornby's, or yours? It looks too good for Hornby with their usual eggshell finish.

 

Thanks John! 

 

Unless someone more knowledgeable than I comes along, I'll check the book on MN's tonight and see what I can find. It's certainly not correct for this livery, as far as I can tell from photos. 

 

The paintwork is Hornbys, but i've given it a very glossy topcoat. My new standard practice is to use Mr Color Gloss Lacquer, and then weather over the top of that. It provides an excellent base. Plus I weather with enamels which don't activate the gloss and I can take off all of the weathering and start again if I mess up! Another benefit is that it really lifts the paintwork, and in certain light gives that 'metallic' sheen. 

Edited by Jack P
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Another quick update. 

 

Moved my desk into the spare room. I'm not sure why this didn't happen sooner..

 

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This means I now have a view!

Unfortunately the spare room still needs to double as guest accommodation, so until we buy a house (hopefully soon, we have all our ducks in a row, and are looking for the right place) - no 'layout'. It does mean that I should have the space for a little diorama thing though. I just need to get my A into G and get to working on it. 

 

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Here's 932 Blundells. Although maybe it should be Blunders, I've made a bit of a mistake with the extended raves and they are about 6mm too short. Would you know from looking at it? Probably not. But I know, and that's enough to re-do it. I've ordered another tender, and will set to work when it arrives. I actually bought an entire donor loco, I try and find cheap 925 'Cheltenham' locos when they pop up, the bodies are usually salvagable, but the mazak rot riddled chassis is really only fit for the bin. I'd like to have a go at replacing the Hornby bogie/driving wheels with Alan Gibson replacements as a bit of a test exercise.

 

More anon.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Folks,

 

I haven't been dormant. But I also feel like I've weirdly been stretched very thin recently.

A recent success was me finishing off my Queen Mary after like, 3 years.. A concerted effort saw me finishing off the replacement bogies (Hornby Maunsell spares), Screw links, vac pipes, and all the other undrframe details. Repaint/transfers/weathering etc. Just a quick and dirty photo for now.

 

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I've also been working on getting the L finished off. 

Steam reverser, pipework, handrails all complete. They won't be attached until after painting and lining. 

 

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Brake gear all sorted too, i've made my first ever set of removable gear. Will definitely try and use this method in future. You can see here that I also knocked a replacement roof up out of brass angle and sheet. In the end i decided that my version was comparable to the one that came in the kit and decided to use that instead. 

 

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The motor is rather large in this loco (intentionally), but I found that it was hanging off the axle and impeding free running. So I made a little bracket thing to hold it. This sits in the bottom of the ashpan and can't been seen,

 

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The chassis isn't perfect, in-fact it does really leave a lot to be desired. But it's not terrible and with some further enhancement work the lower portion of the loco scrubs up pretty nicely.

You can also see the little bracket that holds the lubricator (1786 was so fitted with one), the lubricator and pipework will be added after painting and lining. 

 

51291929487_d9764c7507_h.jpg

 

Next up was colour, and my difficulties with it. I'm not sold on the Phoenix shade of malachite green, it looks too 'Doncaster' to me, and I attribute this to a lack of blue-ness. I had some paint mixed by a car body shop place, but that wasn't right either. Phoenix is first, followed by the 'custom' mix.

You can also see the rivets/cladding bolts I added to the firebox with Mike Edge's suggested Plastic Padding super steel epoxy. It works brilliantly!!

 

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In the end, I wasn't happy with either. So it's had a swim in some lacquer thinners. I also need to add a few details that I missed, and this will be significantly easier when I don't have to worry about messing up paintwork. The loco will get a blast with some filler primer and have the super steel rivets re-applied. 

 

I also revisited the tender, stripped it with lacquer thinner, and cleaned everything up. I also re-attached the extended raves in a better way. There are still a few small details to add before primer and paint.

I've got a Brassmasters C class tender brake gear upgrade to finish off next. 1786's tender was written off in a collision and it received a C's tender for a while as a replacement, an easy choice for me as I had the spare tender, which really saved some hassle. 

 

51293390644_d0c4efae7b_h.jpg

 

That's all for now. I've just had some more eastern stuff arrive for weathering! 

Edited by Jack P
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8 hours ago, Jack P said:

Next up was colour, and my difficulties with it. I'm not sold on the Phoenix shade of malachite green, it looks too 'Doncaster' to me, and I attribute this to a lack of blue-ness. I had some paint mixed by a car body shop place, but that wasn't right either. Phoenix is first, followed by the 'custom' mix.

 

Phoenix do two shades of Malachite - listed as "pre-war" and "post-war" - to my eye the pre-war one looks better, the post-war one looks too bright to me. Admittedly that's based off preservation-era memories of Isle of Wight stock as I wasn't around in the late 40's!

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