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Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work


Jack P
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Gosh, lining really takes a while. I'm still not happy with it either. I should probably learn to use a bow pen..

 

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I added the rear lamp irons, Still need to add the Vac hose. Even after doing my best to bring this up to date, it still shows its age.

 

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Not finished by any means. The bufferbeam needs another coat of paint and the buffers need painting, there's a few other paint touch-ups. I'll be finishing off the rear of the tender later tonight. 

 

Learning how to use a bow pen takes forever too - believe me, I have tried. Stick to the transfers, IMHO waterslide (Fox) are the easiest to use.

 

Glenn

Edited by mattingleycustom
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Looks brilliant to me!

 

Thanks Dave! I think i just need more practice, it's certainly better than the schools tender, using water is key

 

Learning how to use a bow pen takes forever too - believe me, I have tried. Stick to the transfers, IMHO waterslide (Fox) are the easiest to use.

 

Glenn

 

You're not the only person to tell me that. Might just take a while to refine the skill. I've not used Fox lining transfers yet, but I might give them go.

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Picked up a Maunsell Van C for approx £5 - it was in BR Blue 

 

28303533867_26d232086f_b.jpg

 

The roof needs another coat. and then transfers. This is the first thing i've painted entirely with enamels.

 

I also realised that the spare front 8F pony truck I had was the perfect size for the K class, and looked much better than the one that came with the kit,

 

43136712802_77b0f67627_b.jpg

 

Hopefully more updates soon!

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    You jammy b*gger, £5?! It looks great though

 

I was even luckier though - the guy I got it off gave me a tin of Humbrol 'Malachite' for 'nowt! Thank you, it'll be finished over the weekend.

 

I pose another question to my readers - I took delivery of the mainly trains SR brake shoe etch (now owned by Wizard models). I have two contenders for the brake shoes on the N15x,

 

43194429331_944405dbbd_b.jpg

 

The left hand one is for a terrier, but the curve is right and I think the shoe itself isn't, the right hand one is for an E4/5/6 and a little bit more stout, but it doesn't curve at the top and so won't fit between the wheels but still be anywhere near close enough to the wheel to be believable. They are both LBSC designs, so I think my best bet may be to use the shoe part from the E4/5/6 and the hanger from the Terrier.

 

I've included a picture of the side profile, showing that in reality neither is correct.

 

43194429041_67ff6b5fbf_b.jpg

 

Open to suggestions - I might look at non SR brake shoes and see if any will fit the bill!

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     You jammy b*gger, £5?! It looks great though

 

Says the Lady who sold me a mint (well, nicely weathered) and boxed Hornby Maunsell for £1!!!

 

Very nice Jack. Perhaps K, J, J1 or E2 brake shoes for the N15x? I'm afraid the little knowledge I do have there is of the original L's.

Edited by sem34090
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Says the Lady who sold me a mint (well, nicely weathered) and boxed Hornby Maunsell for £1!!!

 

Very nice Jack. Perhaps K, J, J1 or E2 brake shoes for the N15x? I'm afraid the little knowledge I do have there is of the original L's.

 

Jeez, now that's good value!

 

I was hoping that I would be able to use the shoes from this fret for the K class, I think that I should be able to use a mash up of parts to get correct looking versions for that though - I think there's a general fret that would suit the N15x better. So no worries there! I need to fill the holes that are already in the chassis for the brake hangers and drill new ones. I was thinking solder, but i'm not sure, is there another way of filling holes in brass?

 

Once the fully insulated wheels arrive, I'll start on the motion - the Motion that comes with this kit is a little Disproportionate (I think) so i'm trying to see if Langley models will do just the valve gear from their Baltic Tank. I've already sorted crossheads from Markits. Once I've sorted that, it'll be on to pick-ups and motor/gearbox fitting. 

 

Still waiting on this blasted whitemetal solder!

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Jeez, now that's good value!

 

I was thinking solder, but i'm not sure, is there another way of filling holes in brass?

 

 

Try soldering a piece of brass rod in the hole and filing it flat after

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Thanks guys, I didn't have any brass sheet to hand, and because the hole opening was a sort of 'half etch' I didn't have the right size rod either, but I did have some spare bits of brass wire, so I just did my best, and the solder filled the gap nicely around the wire and it looks fine all tidied up.

 

I'm lucky that the holes are way out because it would be a pain trying to drill another hole over the existing hole.

 

Here's some interesting B&W footage of the Southern in the 1940's - if it links correctly it should be as N15x 2329 'Stephenson' passes the camera in wartime black guise https://youtu.be/3sIUtu-s51Q?t=473

Edited by Jack P
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Still no WM Solder, so nothing is fixed together, but here are some photos of my efforts tonight.

 

43254336881_56019e4c71_b.jpg

 

And with a few extras courtesy of some blu-tack

 

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Most of my efforts have been around dry fitting, making sure that all the bits fit together nicely. I'm running into a bit of an issue with the front part of the footplate, where it meets up with the bufferbeam doesn't match. The left side is too short, and the right side is too long. It's only just occurred to me now, but I might fillet in some whitemetal at the cab end, I think that will be easiest. There will still be lots of tidying up around the front end as there are so many joins. Once the boiler has been soldered together I'll clean up the castings and try my best to get it more round than oval. Ideally I want to be able to fit a flywheel inside so there's still lots of sanding back and tidying up to do. I also had a play around with ideas for the draincocks - I saw the idea in one of DLT's posts, although after studying the prototype photos a little closer, there's other details that need adding. What I imagine is the actuating lever is the main part, but i'll focus on those details later.

 

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Finally I tidied up the bogie, the donor King Arthur bogie wheels are the right size (12mm as opposed to the kit providing 14mm) but the rim profile isn't quite right, so they will do for now, but will need to be addressed before the model is finished. I also cut up some PCB (remembering to chamfer the edges to avoid shorts!) so I can fit pickups to the bogie, and did my best to clean up the casting a bit.

 

I'm also still not sure how i'm going to join loco/tender, I did think maybe through the drag beam hole, but i'm not so sure now. I also need to think about the pipework under the cab - I think i'll need to order some brass rod... I'll add it to the list! 

Edited by Jack P
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I came home to a few surprises last night, one of which was whitemetal solder. 

 

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Which meant after must frustration I ended up with this - not super happy with it, the biggest issue is the 'face' the boiler is oval, and the odd design of the kit means that in order to get the firebox sides straight, there needs to be a gap along the bottom of the boiler, which means I can't solder it all up and gently press it round, does anyone have any suggestions for this? I'm a little stumped.

 

29440971408_7404c74374_b.jpg

 

Starting to look like a Lord Nelson an N15x now!

 

Posed up with the boiler, footplate/frame front and cylinder block all screwed into place, I apologise for the tape. But i'm trying to align the footplate sides as best I can to try and line up the front bufferbeam. I think I need to assemble the cab next to make sure it lines up correctly on the footplate and then lines up okay with the boiler/firebox. I've come to realise that a lot of the castings are undersized, the front bracket that supports the smokebox saddle is the main offender here, although as I was advised for the top of the boiler, dabbing blobs of solder on and then filing down does a good job of filling any gaps.

 

I did wonder though, should I be using a specific flux, or will regular flux do ok? It still sizzled, but the solder didn't seem to 'flow' like it does on brass, it was fluid on the parts that did have solder though. I was also very pleased that there was no melted whitemetal, turning the iron right down yielded very happy results, liquid solder every time, and full intact castings!

Edited by Jack P
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I am enjoying this build. The class had an unusual gestation, and looked rather unique.  Bulleid held trials which revealed that the King Arthurs were more economical, so they were usually confined to secondary work.  Those loaned to the GWR during WW2 were considered the equal of the Saint class.

I see the footplate looks all square-the hardest job to do with a W/M kit, in my opinion, and vital if the engine is to look correct. Oval boilers can usually be persuaded into alignment by using a soft-jawed vice.

 

"the odd design of the kit means that in order to get the firebox sides straight, there needs to be a gap along the bottom of the boiler"-not sure what this means.  Looking a tthe image, if setting the boiler correctly then leaves a gap at the firebox base, this can be filled with W/M solder and cleaned up.

 

I use Carr's Red Label 70 flux for W/M soldering, and have had no problems.  Fibre brush cleaning beforehand needs to be thorough.

 

With a vintage W/M kit such as this, careful calibration of components is advised; be prepared to replace with scratch brass items or salvage parts.  Good Luck!

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"the odd design of the kit means that in order to get the firebox sides straight, there needs to be a gap along the bottom of the boiler"-not sure what this means.  

 

Ah, sorry, i'll clarify. The boiler is a 2 piece design, in order to get the firebox sides straight you need to join the top seam of the boiler, but not the bottom seam - it leaves a gap at the smokebox end. It seems like the best way to explain it is simply that i'll need to fillet in some whitemetal to fill the gap. The thing I'm worried about though, is when I go to use a vice to shape it round, will tit hold up okay? I suppose I can just give it a go and see!

 

I appreciate your comments, The kit certainly doesn't make anything easy, the footplate is in 4 parts. I've ordered some brass sheet, because I know that there are parts that just won't do the job, plus it will be useful for adding detail. In addition to that, I've just gone and ordered the wrong size replacement drivers - joy! 

 

What a way to cut my teeth kitbuilding!

 

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I soldered the footplate together, and then added some scrap WM to the fronts of the footplate I then sanded this down and added the front bufferbeam - not in shot. I will be cleaning up that casting line too.

 

43281156452_f6e650e32d_b.jpg

 

Another shot of it not finished, but posed. I assembled the cab, which honestly, leaves a lot to be desired, it lines up with the footplate badly, I am seriously considering scratchbuilding a replacement, I could probably get away with new side overlays, or maybe seeing if I can find a cheap donor LN body and pinching the cab from that. I also soldered some excess WM to the undersides of the firebox so that there wasn't a gap on either side of the splashers. I need to sand these additions down now so the boiler sits flush. I also bent the valve gear up. I have some fantastic machined crossheads from Markits to replace the whitemetal ones that came with the kit, so I just need to make sure these will fit up when it comes time to assemble the cylinders and motion.

 

Next steps are to finish the brake rigging, and add the chassis springs.

 

43281155442_a764f06120_b.jpg

 

I also managed to get my hands on some of this! Happy day.

Edited by Jack P
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Looks like you're making good progress! Excuse my ignorance - but what's the prototype?

 

A little bit of progress tonight - excuse the poor video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpOIWFMzRyc

 

test fit of the machined crossheads, making sure they run ok, chassis is still free rolling with the connecting rod added. Now the only issue is that with the valve gear bent up the way that it is, it's too wide, I'm not sure if that's because I've bent it incorrectly, or because the etched bend line is wrong. I'll have another look at it tomorrow and see what needs to be done to get it in line. 

 

If the bend is right and it's still too wide, i'll cut it down the middle and solder it closer. Worst case, I've been in contact with langley models, and when the next run of etches is put through i'll be purchasing a replacement valve gear set from their Baltic Tank, which to my eye looks a better representation than the nu-cast version anyway. Then I need to get my head around how to attach the return crank, which has a rearwards 'lean' as opposed to the more common frontwards 'lean' (what's the word i'm looking for? Bias?), and the rest of the motion. I think before I get into that I need to fit a motor and gearbox and get the rest of the chassis sorted.

Edited by Jack P
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post-19381-0-50123700-1531350422_thumb.gifIt is a DJH Raven A2 with LNER wheel tender.  I decided to build 2404 running with a Gresley boiler.  SE Finecast supplied the boiler and Nick Easton supplied the footplate and cab side etches.  Various kit components have been replaced or modified.  I am looking for information to convert the tender chassis to sprung P4.

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This is another gripe for me about kits: They cost a lot, but leave so much to be desired. It really is a shame, as I love making things, but kits...

I agree entirely.  For the cost of the A2 kit, I rate the components as no better than average-the castings are generally good, but the etches are far too flimsy, and in the case of the motor mount, too thick, and breaking when bent up.  The original NER boiler supplied was assembled with the boiler backhead.  I will need to reinforce this with an inner brass tube for strength, and also the wafer thin cab sides.

Although the kit was purchased in the nineties and is no longer available, I expected a better product for the price, and am using the kit as a set of components to produce the model, along with Nick Easton etches, Markits detailing and various items sctatchbuilt.  The tender is an easy build, but still inferior to a PDK LNER tender that I am building at the same time.

At least it is not an MTK or Q Kits product.

I suggest Mike Edge or Comet as examples of decent kits  

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This is another gripe for me about kits: They cost a lot, but leave so much to be desired. It really is a shame, as I love making things, but kits...

 

I think though, you must remember that in many cases a kitbuild is the only option. 

 

As an example, I said on Tony Wrights thread, I'm certainly not planning on ever building a Schools Class from a kit, and, honestly, why would I? The Hornby offering isn't 100% perfect, but it's a really good model, and it would be much better use of time, money and effort to add details to that than to build a whole kit (in my opinion anyway), I can certainly see the merits of building a kit though, and especially if you model in EM or P4. 

 

However in the case of the A2 and the N15x - yes, they do leave a lot to be desired, (Hi Nu-Cast, why no one piece boiler?), but the other options are either 1. to buy a finished one, or 2. there is no other option! In reality, it's much cheaper to do it yourself. Plus I think it's worth saying that I personally was in the same boat as you, and then I actually did try building a kit, and it's all very fun. The main thing is just how much satisfaction you get from doing something yourself, and mastering new skills. I think my biggest win so far is soldering whitemetal, I was absolutely dreading it, but It's probably easier than brass!

 

I also want to add, building this N15x has given me a new appreciation for the cost of RTR items. I could probably model half of the SR's allocation of P classes, and then half of one for the (estimated) finished cost of this kit.

 

 

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I think though, you must remember that in many cases a kitbuild is the only option. 

 

As an example, I said on Tony Wrights thread, I'm certainly not planning on ever building a Schools Class from a kit, and, honestly, why would I? The Hornby offering isn't 100% perfect, but it's a really good model, and it would be much better use of time, money and effort to add details to that than to build a whole kit (in my opinion anyway), I can certainly see the merits of building a kit though, and especially if you model in EM or P4. 

 

However in the case of the A2 and the N15x - yes, they do leave a lot to be desired, (Hi Nu-Cast, why no one piece boiler?), but the other options are either 1. to buy a finished one, or 2. there is no other option! In reality, it's much cheaper to do it yourself. Plus I think it's worth saying that I personally was in the same boat as you, and then I actually did try building a kit, and it's all very fun. The main thing is just how much satisfaction you get from doing something yourself, and mastering new skills. I think my biggest win so far is soldering whitemetal, I was absolutely dreading it, but It's probably easier than brass!

 

I also want to add, building this N15x has given me a new appreciation for the cost of RTR items. I could probably model half of the SR's allocation of P classes, and then half of one for the (estimated) finished cost of this kit.

 

To be blunt, I can't see why anyone modelling in "OO" would build a loco kit if there's a RTR version available to modern standards. This obviously wasn't the case even 20 years ago, but it is now. RTR wins on cost (as you say), quality of finish (by a mile in many cases) and also quality of running (if it doesn't work you send it back and get another). I take the point that a well built white metal kit may be able to out-haul RTR on very heavy trains, but frankly that's an irrelevance for 99.9% of us. Our desire to create can be filled by otherwise unavailable coaches or wagons, also scenery, signals, weathering, whatever, and there still won't probably be enough hours in the day to get to an end of all that we'd like to do.

 

Coming back to your N15x, the join across the gap in the boiler will be stronger if you can get some strips of brass across and tack those to the white metal, you need to tin the brass with higher melt solder first and then the white metal solder sticks to the brass solder - you probably know that anyway - sorry! I can't quite get my head around how this fits in with the oval shape, but if you really need to do a bodge remember you'll only see the smokebox front, so as long as this is round if the smokebox and boiler gradually evolve into an oval towards the firebox it won't be discernible to the eye.

 

John.

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Learning how to use a bow pen takes forever too - believe me, I have tried. Stick to the transfers, IMHO waterslide (Fox) are the easiest to use.

 

Glenn

Close ups always bring out the worst but Frankly I don't see anything wrong with that effort!!. round of applause due sir.

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Thanks Georgeconna, I suppose i'm my own biggest critic!

 

 

Coming back to your N15x, the join across the gap in the boiler will be stronger if you can get some strips of brass across and tack those to the white metal, you need to tin the brass with higher melt solder first and then the white metal solder sticks to the brass solder - you probably know that anyway - sorry! I can't quite get my head around how this fits in with the oval shape, but if you really need to do a bodge remember you'll only see the smokebox front, so as long as this is round if the smokebox and boiler gradually evolve into an oval towards the firebox it won't be discernible to the eye.

 

John.

 

 

I completely agree John. A good example of an outlier would be the Hornby E2, sure there's a RTR example, but would I prefer this over building a kit? No, not at all. I would rather start with a kit and detail it to my liking. 

 

As for the N15x, I don't think i've done a good job of explaining the issue, please excuse the quality of the photos, they are just taken on my mobile.

 

29481333958_0b017b1906_c.jpg43302689442_e6bf13eb28_c.jpg

 

In this photo, the smokebox saddle is flat, and the firebox sides are square, (the issue is really just theoretical at this point), but there's a gap along the bottom of the boiler. I'm concerned that when I go to squeeze the smokebox round, the gap at the bottom will cause problems because the only securing point will be the seam along the top of the boiler  which will be over-stressed and then just break- hopefully that makes sense?

 

Am I over thinking this?

 

 

 

 

 

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You could seal or spot solder the gap along the bottom with LM solder, press the boiler to shape, and fill with LM.  I suggest making a card template of the correct diameter and using to check the boiler-you will need to cut the template in half to use.

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You could seal or spot solder the gap along the bottom with LM solder, press the boiler to shape, and fill with LM.  I suggest making a card template of the correct diameter and using to check the boiler-you will need to cut the template in half to use.

 

 

I figured that now that I'm really over-thinking it. I soldered some whitemetal chunks into the gap underneath and into the smoke-box front and then filed them round. I also ordered a small jewelers vice with rubber jaw covers for the purpose of squeezing the boiler round, I didn't have a vice before, and the total price was only $13nzd to my door (about £6.50), It doesn't have a huge jaw opening, only about 70mm, but i'm sure it will be fine for now.

 

I also added the steps at the front and rear of the footplate.  I think i'll also make a front plate for the smokebox from brass sheet, and then make sure the boiler confirms to that shape, probably with some judicious filing. I'll see how I get on.

 

41629364860_9da31581de_c.jpg

 

I mentioned that I soldered some whitemetal off-cuts to the bottom of the firebox, I filed those back so they fit the splashers better. now the boiler actually sits level. I also added some off-cuts to the cab curvature, then I filed it down and got it to the point where I was happy with the fit onto the footplate. Whitemetal solder filled any gaps left. and when the fibreglass pencil arrives I should be able to tidy up the area to make a nice square join. I also had a quick play with some copper rod to replicate the pipe along the side of the boiler, although i'm not sure if this is thick enough. There is still more to do. I basically have to remove the rear most band on the firebox off completely to move the whole boiler assembly back enough. 

 

Question, does the bogie look too low? The whole area looks a bit odd without the cylinder block, and will look much better when I've added the brake rigging and pipes from the sandboxes. 

 

I'm actually really enjoying this kit-building thing. My results aren't great, but i'm learning so much!

Edited by Jack P
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