Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[30368]

Hi Denbridge.

Thanks for the comments.

I guess it all depends on what you mean by leading and trailing! I am wrong in suggesting the return crank is set at TDC, it is set a BDC! If the crankpin is in that position the return crank on the Moguls and N15X  is set at, say 12 degrees (or there about!) before vertical and most other classes (Not sure if there were any other classes set in this way?) set at, say, 12 degrees after vertical. So I apologise for my sloppy wording! I think we agree on how the return crank should be set for the N15X and Maunsell Moguls.

I just wondered if anyone knew if this gave any benefits in terms of valve timing or loco performance?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Denbridge]

14 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Hi Denbridge.

Thanks for the comments.

I guess it all depends on what you mean by leading and trailing! I am wrong in suggesting the return crank is set at TDC, it is set a BDC! If the crankpin is in that position the return crank on the Moguls and N15X  is set at, say 12 degrees (or there about!) before vertical and most other classes (Not sure if there were any other classes set in this way?) set at, say, 12 degrees after vertical. So I apologise for my sloppy wording! I think we agree on how the return crank should be set for the N15X and Maunsell Moguls.

I just wondered if anyone knew if this gave any benefits in terms of valve timing or loco performance?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

Sorry. Didn't make myself clear. On the maunsell moguls and the N15x, with the coupling rods at the bottom of their revolution the return crank should be set backwards,  ie behind the axle centre line. In most locos using this gear the crank is ahead of the axle c/l.

[Jack P]

I must be remembering incorrectly! I could've sworn it was forward, rookie. Thank you @Denbridge for your insight! much appreciated. 

 

I've made a bit of an error somewhere else, I had originally set out to follow in Matt Wicks footsteps (Bluebell Model Railway) and cut down a Birdcage brake to represent one of the 50.1ft versions. I saw a cheap coach on amazon (this was £18 shipped to my door.. no joke)

 

 

But i've bought the wrong one! Before this drives me to purchase the rest of the crimson set and paint  it green, does anyone have any suggestions for what this can be chopped/changed into?

[sem34090]

You jammy ba...   I couldn't find any for less than £45 per coach and ended up paying more than that! £18 birdcages - where are these?! 

 

I thought the shorter ones had an entirely different style of panelling? Beyond that I think your best bet is to spray it malachite...

[Jack P]

On 24/04/2019 at 22:35, sem34090 said:

You jammy ba...   I couldn't find any for less than £45 per coach and ended up paying more than that! £18 birdcages - where are these?! 

 

I thought the shorter ones had an entirely different style of panelling? Beyond that I think your best bet is to spray it malachite...

 

I got the last one! It was on Amazon, I actually didn't think it would arrive, but there you go! I couldn't find anything that I thought I'd be able to convert the birdcage into, so I took your advice and it now looks like this:

 

 

This means i'll need to get the other two crimson ones and finish the rake off!

 

I've had a real mare of a weekend with the H2, I finished off the numbering/lettering and then sprayed it with a coat of gloss. I also added the chain the holds the lower vacuum pipe to the bufferbeam, and some pipework under the tender, which is now all but invisible.

 

 

 

 

 

This is where my problems started. I really can't seem to get along with gloss. It went all spotty, and worst of all, it didn't seal in the transfers. The ones on the footplate sides and the boiler bands have been moving out of place when handled, it's a real bore. I was hoping that the varnish would seal them, but sadly that wasn't the case. I'm now left with this depressing reality.

 

 

the footplate lining has been removed and the boiler has been stripped and another coat of green wafted over. Using some enamel thinners I also managed to take the gloss off the tender and cab sides. I'm at a bit of a loss now, as my only other option seems to be to use the Fox waterslide lining that i've got, nothing wrong with it, I'm just not sure how well i'll be able to re-do all of those reverse curves. The kicker is that if they don't seal either i'm back to where I was before. 

 

If anyone has any suggestions please let me know, i'm also open to advice with spraying clear, as so far the H2 has had a bad run of things when it comes to gloss. 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jack P

[Brocp]

Maybe try lightly brushing on Klear or something like that Jack? I brush it on to protect transfers, I've never even tried airbrushing it.

[Jack P]

9 minutes ago, Brocp said:

Maybe try lightly brushing on Klear or something like that Jack? I brush it on to protect transfers, I've never even tried airbrushing it.

 

I was hoping that airbrushing the Gloss Tamiya varnish would do the same as brushing it. Sadly I don't know where to find Klear in New Zealand, I have looked but nothing local seems to come up. The last two batches of HMRS transfers i've got have been of questionable quality, which might be exacerbating the issue, having said that, I don't know if it's fair to 'blame the tools'.

[Brocp]

Try this Jack it might have an answer,

 

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

 

Regarding the HMRS transfers, you're not wrong, the latest batches have been horrible. I've been really struggling with them. 

[burgundy]

I have always found the MicroScale varnishes very effective. They are acrylic based but go over enamel paint with no problem. You also avoid any issues of solvents attacking the decals.  My personal preference is to use the Satin finish overall, followed by "weathering" applied with the flat finish - diluted and tinted light brown for running gear then black sprayed vertically onto the top surfaces (very, very carefully!). 

MicroSol or MicroSet may help if you are having problems with the decals - again, be careful as they work by softening the decal to get it to settle around detail. 

The products are American but seem to be available quite widely in the UK so someone may stock them in NZ. 

Hope this helps 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[autocoach]

8 hours ago, burgundy said:

The products are American but seem to be available quite widely in the UK so someone may stock them in NZ. 

Hope this helps 

Best wishes 

Eric 

Look at this on a Finescale forum:http://www.finescale.com/how-to/tips/2018/05/reader-tips-pledge-future-gloss-has-a-new-name and see if you can find it in a big box store.

 

Personally I haven't tried it (taken the Pledge?). Lately the Tamiya spray can gloss has worked adequately for pre-decal gloss finish. And I have been using their matte spray after decaling.

[Daddyman]

Were you applying the transfers on a gloss surface in the first place? All the advice says to apply transfers on gloss. I'm amazed at how often that is ignored. I know if you're using Precision Paints there's not always a gloss available, so you need to apply Ronseal gloss varnish, as per Ian Rathbone's book, then apply the transfers, then apply a satin varnish topcoat - Ronseal with a little matting agent in it. There's no better varnishing experience. Save the Klear gloop for floors.... 

[Jack P]

Transfers were applied over gloss, I found a very handy diagram on the fox website that explains why they don't stick over other surfaces

 

https://fox-transfers.co.uk/paint?paint_base=1170&paint_shade_colour=2746&transfer_company=2228&transfer_period=2173

 

I don't know if I can find ronseal here, same issue as Klear, but i'm assuming it's the same as any good floor/wood varnish?

[Jack P]

21 hours ago, burgundy said:

I have always found the MicroScale varnishes very effective. They are acrylic based but go over enamel paint with no problem. You also avoid any issues of solvents attacking the decals.  My personal preference is to use the Satin finish overall, followed by "weathering" applied with the flat finish - diluted and tinted light brown for running gear then black sprayed vertically onto the top surfaces (very, very carefully!). 

MicroSol or MicroSet may help if you are having problems with the decals - again, be careful as they work by softening the decal to get it to settle around detail. 

The products are American but seem to be available quite widely in the UK so someone may stock them in NZ. 

Hope this helps 

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

Thanks Eric, I'm waiting to hear back from some local people about the possibility of getting other MicroScale products here.

 

I managed to use some Pullman lining, which is a little finer than the other lining I was using on the sides of the footplate, and that has taken a heck of a lot better than the other lining did. I'm hoping that once this has had a chance to dry, some satin varnish will seal them in properly. If this doesn't help, i'll strip the footplate back and start from the beginning again.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Jack P

[Nile]

Humbrol Clear is a modern alternative to Klear. Takes longer to dry properly, but works just as well.

[Jack P]

12 hours ago, Nile said:

Humbrol Clear is a modern alternative to Klear. Takes longer to dry properly, but works just as well.

 

The Polyurethane one or the regular clear? I can't seem to spray gloss clear without it going orange peely, and the satin came out with an odd white tinge.

[Nile]

This stuff

[Tony Teague]

On 30/04/2019 at 07:42, Jack P said:

Transfers were applied over gloss, I found a very handy diagram on the fox website that explains why they don't stick over other surfaces

 

https://fox-transfers.co.uk/paint?paint_base=1170&paint_shade_colour=2746&transfer_company=2228&transfer_period=2173

 

I don't know if I can find ronseal here, same issue as Klear, but i'm assuming it's the same as any good floor/wood varnish?

 

Hi Jack

 

I would not think that ronseal, which is I believe a polyeurethane varnish would be anything like Klear which is a sort of transparent floor polish - but I may be wrong!

 

Tony

[Jack P]

8 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Hi Jack

 

I would not think that ronseal, which is I believe a polyeurethane varnish would be anything like Klear which is a sort of transparent floor polish - but I may be wrong!

 

Tony

 

Hey Tony, hope you are well!

 

They do sound very different, maybe they produce the same result?

 

The next issue i've run into is that I use primarily enamels now, and when I've got a clear coat finish that's also enamel, its going to react with the mediums I use for weathering (panel washes mainly). I've also found that I am a bit more competent when it comes to spraying with acrylic, so maybe I should be putting down a gloss acrylic coat, applying transfers, weathering etc, and then sealing it in with an enamel satin coat. I originally swapped to enamels as they are supposedly more hard wearing, but I do wonder with the quality of modern acrylics, they might be just as good?

 

I've taken a bit of a break from transfers at the moment, the birdcage has been gloss varnished (which went on fine) and needs to fully cure before I finish it off. I decided to paint the undersides and finish off the Warwells. I'm not sure if black underneath is accurate or not, but I don't really care - because you'll never see it anyway

 

 

Before and after 

 

 

A combination of different effects, Matt black, matt leather and a drop of metalcote gunmetal, and once it's dry to the touch I use a short stiff brush to bring out the metallic-y highlights. Then a combination of light and dark earth powders, and finally some 'old grease' here and there. I produces an interesting combination of finishes, and is good practice for the looming task of repainting and weathering my coaching stock!

 

That's all for now!

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jack P

[burgundy]

3 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

Hey Tony, hope you are well!

 

They do sound very different, maybe they produce the same result?

 

The next issue i've run into is that I use primarily enamels now, and when I've got a clear coat finish that's also enamel, its going to react with the mediums I use for weathering (panel washes mainly). I've also found that I am a bit more competent when it comes to spraying with acrylic, so maybe I should be putting down a gloss acrylic coat, applying transfers, weathering etc, and then sealing it in with an enamel satin coat. I originally swapped to enamels as they are supposedly more hard wearing, but I do wonder with the quality of modern acrylics, they might be just as good?

 

First of all, the effects on the Warwell look great.

Can I suggest that before you put any enamel varnish on top of an acrylic or on transfers, it is worth trying it out on a test piece. Some years ago, after a particularly disastrous "orange peel" finish, I did some experiments with paints, transfers and  varnishes. I would not claim scientific rigour, but I drew a couple of conclusions.  

1. If you thin varnish, the solvent is very likely to attack the transfers unless you have a very light touch. 

2. Acrylic will go on top of enamel without too much difficulty, but enamel on top of acrylic is less reliable. I am not saying it does not work - only that I could not make it work reliably. If that means that sometimes you need to strip and restart, then I would rather avoid getting into that situation. 

I have therefore used the following procedure which seems to work for me. 

Prime with Halfords rattle can primer. 

Paint basic livery colours in enamel (I don't think anyone does Stroudley's Improved Engine Green any other way!)

Before lining and transfers, apply a coat of Klear (which I think is where we came in!). It is acrylic, brushes very easily and provides a hard, glossy surface.  From this point on, I stick entirely to acrylics.

Apply transfers.  

Apply satin acrylic varnish to get an ex works finish

Apply weathering which may include powders, highlights, lowlights and matt finish to get different tones. (Beware, if you use any weathering powders with black in them and then apply varnish, the black intensifies!).

I am sure that others will have different formulae which work for them, but the point is to develop a process that works for you with the materials that are available to you.

Not heavily weathered, but I hope that it at least looks as though it is in use, rather than ex works. 

I hope that this helps.

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Tony Teague]

Jack

I can only say that whilst I have weathered in acrylics, the vast majority of mine are in enamels and that I have never had any reaction with the underlying decals. I use either gloss paint or a coat of gloss varnish before applying decals, then once they are thoroughly dry, usually Testors Dullcoat to knock the gloss back and hide the carrier film, and then weathering using air-brushed enamels plus powders and washes.

Tony

 

[Jack P]

I appreciate everyone giving feedback and insight as to their own methods, I think I need to keep practicing ad see what's going to work best for me.

 

I've been working on this WD recently. I chose 77270 as it was one of the locos on loan to Brighton shed. Here are some in progress shots

 

 

After having a look at some photos, I decided the two main areas I wanted to change were the pipes on the Westinghouse (?) pump and the bufferbeam area. I still need to drill through the supports for the lifting eyes, and the flat face in front of the cylinders needs a hole drilled in it on either side too. The brass rod was simply bent to shape and glued in place as was the upper copper rod. I added representations of the securing straps with some superglue on the end of a toothpick, which you can sort of see in the shot below.

 

 

I also added the other front vac hose, I used one of the spares from the Warwell, which seemed to be the perfect shape, and drilled a .5mm hole in the rear, I then bent up some .5mm brass rod into a very interesting shape and fixed it in place on the bufferbeam, Hopefully you can see what I mean from these photos. I also added a screw link coupling, I've started soldering the roxey hooks together to double thickness and slightly sanding the edges, to try and add the curvature which is present on the prototype, which I think produces a much nicer looking hook.

 

 

These photos are a little dark, so you probably can't see much detail, hopefully you can sort of see what you're looking for though. I'm still trying to find appropriate transfers, I did buy some a while ago, but they're just white BR numbers, which doesn't appear to be correct, it seems that the SR wagon numbers are the right font, but they are too small. The hunt continues!

 

I also managed to get my hands on some 12-wheel pullmans,  after painting the chassis with a light mix of Humbrol 62 /33 I spent some time last night using powders and some washes to try and weather 'NEPTUNE' in a similar fashion to the photos seen on page 61 and 62 of Mike Kings excellent 'Southern Rolling Stock in Colour'.

 

 

And here's a close up of that gorgeous bogie, I still need to weather the roof.

 

 

That's all for now!

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Jack P

[Jack P]

Another quick update,

 

I'm working closely with a mate (well, as closely as I can when he's in the UK and i'm in NZ) to fill a few gaps with 3D printed models. Nearing completion and getting ready for the first test print is the mammoth LBSC J1, I've included a photo of the chassis and part of the cylinder block, the slide bars are made from square brass rod, and the crosshead is markits.  It's certainly coming along, and i'm very excited to see the final print. 

 

The chassis is fully printed and has bearing and is designed to take a high level gearbox/mashima combination!

 

 

 

On a different note, check this gallery out for some excellent, and very atmospheric shots of the last gasps of Stewarts Lane

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16179216@N07/albums/72157626136590348/with/6721472877/

Edited May 9, 2019 by Jack P

[Brocp]

1 hour ago, Jack P said:

Another quick update,

 

I'm working closely with a mate (well, as closely as I can when he's in the UK and i'm in NZ) to fill a few gaps with 3D printed models. Nearing completion and getting ready for the first test print is the mammoth LBSC J1, I've included a photo of the chassis and part of the cylinder block, the slide bars are made from square brass rod, and the crosshead is markits.  It's certainly coming along, and i'm very excited to see the final print. 

 

The chassis is fully printed and has bearing and is designed to take a high level gearbox/mashima combination!

 

 

 

On a different note, check this gallery out for some excellent, and very atmospheric shots of the last gasps of Stewarts Lane

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16179216@N07/albums/72157626136590348/with/6721472877/

That's awesome mate,

 

You might have to hook me up with your mate, I've got some LMS ideas that I'd love to get drawn up.

[KeithHC]

Any news on the K and a double dome C2X as yet........

 

Keith

[Nick C]

Jack,

 

Can I ask where you got the smokebox lamp brackets on the WD from? I need a couple of sets to add to Ivatt tanks for my new project.

 

Nick