Southern Railway Modelling - Miscellaneous Project work

[Jack P]

A somewhat busy weekend.

 

I've been fighting with my SEF I3 to try and get it running right, but for the life of me, I can't! The below video shows the replacement chassis complete with height modifications to lower the body. 

 

It looks like its running sweetly, but as soon as it goes on the track it binds up. I can't figure out if it's the rods or the gearbox. I've got some High level boxes enroute, so I can have a play and try and figure out the issue by process of elimination. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be the rods. A call to A. Gibson for some replacements might be in order.

 

 

I spent some time getting the SECR J closer to being 'done', there are still a couple of little bits left to do, I made a cab floor, and painted the Interior cream. I also added some etched window bars, I don't think they are exactly the right number of bars, but they look better being there than not. 

 

 

I also added the balance weights, My first time doing this as DLT did them on the N15x. I made them from plastic card, using the nickle silver ones supplied with the kit as a guide. I chose not to use these as I think they looked too thin. Some fettling was needed and the wheels need a repaint, but I think they look alright!

 

 

I also started, finished, and painted a tender kit, a SEF Ashford 4000 .gal one, to run behind my S15. 

 

 

It's not quite finished yet, It still needs a few lamp irons added, and some of the coal space details will be added with plastic card. I pinched the DCC socket from the S15's tender, and have made a home for that up inside. Unfortunately this is one of the S15's that suffered from motor issues, however it was my first purchase when I returned to the hobby in 2017, I cannot bear to get rid of it - although with a replacement chassis, and tender, how much of the original model is left?

 

Finally, some of my GW items are starting to turn up. 

 

 

My rolling and folding bars arrived yesterday, which hopefully means the wheel and rivet press aren't too far behind. These rolling bars are absolutely gorgeous, blackened steel, Allen key bolts, cogs and springs. It's been well oiled, and (this might sound weird) smells fantastic. 

 

I'm probably not quite at the level where I need rolling bars yet, but I'm hoping as my skills increase I will have a chance to use these. I've certainly learned that the best chance you have at producing good results when building something is to have the right tool for the job!

 

 

[Jack P]

I had an exiting delivery at work today. 

 

 

After the headache the i3 has given me, it brings me so much joy to see the J running under her own power. There are now precious few bits left to do. The primary thing is the appropriate transfers (as I have run out)

 

[hayfield]

Jack

 

I have one of these chassis to build, which will go under a Wills/early SEF one which had a cast chassis. I had not realized it had to be modified to fit. think I will build the chassis as designed first to get the height correct before putting it on my chassis jig and setting it up for compensation

 

strange its not working under load, is the chassis jig built?

 

Did it run smoothly on the track without the motor and gears being fitted ?  if it did its the gears. I see they look like older Romford style with larger worms. 

[Jack P]

5 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Jack

 

I have one of these chassis to build, which will go under a Wills/early SEF one which had a cast chassis. I had not realized it had to be modified to fit. think I will build the chassis as designed first to get the height correct before putting it on my chassis jig and setting it up for compensation

 

strange its not working under load, is the chassis jig built?

 

Did it run smoothly on the track without the motor and gears being fitted ?  if it did its the gears. I see they look like older Romford style with larger worms. 

 

Hi John,

 

The chassis actually fits perfectly fine as is, it just sits a tiny bit too high, 1.5mm or so. The issue you run into if you drop it down a bit is that the bogie won't swing properly without taking some meat out of the underside of the footplate. 

 

The chassis was not jig built. I can't seem to figure out how exactly they go together on a jig, (but I will get in touch with poppys wood-tech and order one!). However, it did roll freely prior to the motor and gearbox being fitted. I've had some single and double stage comet + high level boxes arrive today, so I might give it a go with them instead. 

 

 

[hayfield]

Jack

 

I was very fortunate to have found a Hobby Holidays jig second hand and extremely cheap,  otherwise I doubt if I would have bought one. The Poppys is a great aid in making a square chassis using the time honored hornblock alignment axle rods. The dearer jigs first allow you to fit the axle bearings/hornblocks to each chassis side first, when both sides are completed the jig then allows you to build the chassis on the same axle alignment. Sounds far more difficult than it is.

 

It sounds like the gears are the problem.

 

 

[Jack P]

On 21/07/2020 at 22:34, hayfield said:

Jack

 

I was very fortunate to have found a Hobby Holidays jig second hand and extremely cheap,  otherwise I doubt if I would have bought one. The Poppys is a great aid in making a square chassis using the time honored hornblock alignment axle rods. The dearer jigs first allow you to fit the axle bearings/hornblocks to each chassis side first, when both sides are completed the jig then allows you to build the chassis on the same axle alignment. Sounds far more difficult than it is.

 

It sounds like the gears are the problem.

 

I've just placed an order for the poppys jig. I'm going to sideline the i3 until it arrives to make sure that the chassis isn't the issue. I've earmarked a new gearbox for it though. I'm sure i'll figure the jig out, most things seem much more complicated than they are - our hobby to a T!

 

 

[Jack P]

I feel like i've done lots of posting, but haven't made huge amounts of progress.

 

I've spent some time finishing off little bits and bobs on the J's.

 

I added some lead sheet to the side tanks, and rolled some up to stuff into the boiler. I wanted it to be as close to the middle driver as possible. I'm not overly worried about throwing the balance off, as the bogie is sprung. I just want to make sure she rides properly.

 

 

I gave the cab a light weathering and added some odds and ends. A bit sparse, but once the roof is on you can't see anything!

 

 

She's also finally received her identity. On the bufferbeam at least. 

 

 

My GW rivet press arrived, I'm blown away by these bits of kit, and would highly recommend them to anyone that's even slightly interested. 

 

 

I was a little concerned about how easy to use the press would be, I shouldn't have been. The instructions are so comprehensive, and even explain how to do rivets in a circle! 

 

 

The two knobs adjust the longitudinal and latitudinal position of the sheet to be worked on, there is also a flat stop for the work to sit against, secured by 3 bolts. Different punch heads and anvils for scales and for half etched rivets. Really looking forward to breaking this in.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Jack P said:

My GW rivet press arrived, I'm blown away by these bits of kit, and would highly recommend them to anyone that's even slightly interested. 

I was a little concerned about how easy to use the press would be, I shouldn't have been. The instructions are so comprehensive, and even explain how to do rivets in a circle! 

 

 

The two knobs adjust the longitudinal and latitudinal position of the sheet to be worked on, there is also a flat stop for the work to sit against, secured by 3 bolts. Different punch heads and anvils for scales and for half etched rivets. Really looking forward to breaking this in.

 

 

Jack

You're right - I have one of these having borrowed someone else's during a Missenden weekend - and they are great / very easy to use once correctly adjusted.

I have used it on the brass 6 wheel LSWR brake that I am building for my breakdown train and it produces very neat consistent results with very little effort.

(Unfortunately that build has been on hold for a while due to other problems - but not with the rivets!).

Tony

 

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

I've just placed an order for the poppys jig. I'm going to sideline the i3 until it arrives to make sure that the chassis isn't the issue. I've earmarked a new gearbox for it though. I'm sure i'll figure the jig out, most things seem much more complicated than they are - our hobby to a T!

 

 

 

Quite often as you say we think it must be more complicated than it is, these jigs do come highly recommended

[DLT]

Everyones buying Poppys Jigs!  I've just bought one and I'm assembling the Z on it.

The GW Riviter is an amazing piece of kit, takes a bit of getting used to though, and sometimes you have to plan your riviting ahead.  Because the clamping table doesn't go right up to the anvil, if you are riviting a small part you may have to solder it riviting to another piece of bass and hold that in the clamp.  When scratchbuilding  (say a sidetank) I have marked eveything out and rivited it before cutting it out.

See my Narrow Gauge thread here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=3414404

And here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=2557495

Edited July 23, 2020 by DLT

[Michael Edge]

6 hours ago, DLT said:

 

The GW Riviter is an amazing piece of kit, takes a bit of getting used to though, and sometimes you have to plan your riviting ahead.  Because the clamping table doesn't go right up to the anvil, if you are riviting a small part you may have to solder it riviting to another piece of bass and hold that in the clamp.  When scratchbuilding  (say a sidetank) I have marked eveything out and rivited it before cutting it out.

See my Narrow Gauge thread here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=3414404

And here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=2557495

That's the way Mr. GW thinks you should do it, however it's not so easy cleaning up the parts after sawing them out when they have already been riveted - and the process is impossible if you want to saw out two or more parts together. The clamping screws need rounding off as well otherwise they will mark the metal. I explained some of this to him and was merely told that I obviously didn't know what I was talking about.......

I've only been doing this for a living for the last 45 years, what would I know?

[DLT]

Good points Mike. 

Perhaps I should have added I don't use the GW exclusively.  I have three riveters, and use each of them when most appropriate for the job.

Agreed, the clamping screws on the GW machine can cause serious damage; I put a strip of pcb between the screws and the metal to spread the load and protect the job.

All the best, Dave.

[Jack P]

14 hours ago, DLT said:

Everyones buying Poppys Jigs!  I've just bought one and I'm assembling the Z on it.

The GW Riviter is an amazing piece of kit, takes a bit of getting used to though, and sometimes you have to plan your riviting ahead.  Because the clamping table doesn't go right up to the anvil, if you are riviting a small part you may have to solder it riviting to another piece of bass and hold that in the clamp.  When scratchbuilding  (say a sidetank) I have marked eveything out and rivited it before cutting it out.

See my Narrow Gauge thread here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=3414404

And here:  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35253-dlts-ng-workbench-back-to-the-hunslets/&do=findComment&comment=2557495

 

Yes! I'd seen you talking about it when you started the Z. The idea was cemented when I ran into issues with the i3. 

 

Dave, if you don't mind sharing, how do you cut brass? So far i've been scoring small parts and then snapping them off, often this requires a lot of cleanup though, I can't see this being a feasible approach to larger parts (like the 0395 cab..)

 

8 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

That's the way Mr. GW thinks you should do it, however it's not so easy cleaning up the parts after sawing them out when they have already been riveted - and the process is impossible if you want to saw out two or more parts together. The clamping screws need rounding off as well otherwise they will mark the metal. I explained some of this to him and was merely told that I obviously didn't know what I was talking about.......

I've only been doing this for a living for the last 45 years, what would I know?

 

Thanks for dropping in Mike, you're right I noticed that the bottom of the securing bolts are pretty rough. I like DLT's idea of using some PCB to protect the brass sheet. I can already tell that for anything more complex than a single line of rivets, some careful planning is required - and quite likely some material will be wasted. Do you have a preferred rivet press?

[Jack P]

I know I shouldn't be starting any more projects before clearing my bench of the existing ones. But I was fitting a DCC chip to my Dapol B4 last night and couldn't help myself - I had to have a play with my new toy.

 

This is the result

 

 

 

 

They are just glorified blanking plates for the NEM socket cavity. This requires some trimming of the baseplate. Lessons learnt from my previous B4 (now moved on to a friend), meant I didn't have to spend time reassembling the valve gear. when I took the body off.

 

The plates aren't 1000% accurate. The rear one most so, as on the protoype there is empty space under the cab. Not perfect, but I think they both look much nicer than the plastic ones I fitted to the old B4. Excuse the wonky steps and lamp iron, there is still much more to do!

Edited July 23, 2020 by Jack P
Typo

[Jack P]

I decided I wasn't a fan of the colour, for some reason the B4 isn't actually black, more like a very dark grey with a hint of brown. Glossing over this only exacerbated the issue. The body was then stripped and sprayed with tamiya semi gloss black.

 

While I was at it, I found a photo of number 87, showing that there was no right hand tool box, and the smokebox straps needed to be shortened. The most glaringly obvious omission by Dapol is the front bufferbeam rivets. I spent some time with archers transfers, and did my best to replicate these. 

 

Annoyingly my photography seems to be getting worse,

 

 

I also made up the bottom parts of the vac pipes, copper wire and some left overs from markits clack valves. They're then attached to the front of the chassis.

 

 

Still a few little odds and ends, but it's coming along nicely. I think the modifications really improve the front end view of the loco.

[Jack P]

In other news, I've been comparing parts of the DJH 0395 to the drawings in Russell.

 

 

 

It seems to me that there are a few issues, all of which compound the visual appearance being wrong. The cab is close, much closer than I thought it would be, but the issues i've identified so far are:

 

- Cab window cutouts are too deep and the curve profile is wrong

- The roof is too thick, and the curve profile is also wrong, making the whole cab too tall

- The curves onto the footplate at the bottom of the cab protrude out too far

- the boiler sits a fraction too low, about 1mm

 

There's also not something quite right about the front end, but the more I look, the more depressed I get. I've scanned the drawings in the Russell book, I'll cut them out and make some templates to see if the cab can be altered or if a new one needs to be built. 

 

I've ordered replacement frames from AG, as well as a new chimney and sprung buffers. I'm tempted to order the Martin Finney 3300g tender from brassmasters. 

 

I'll see how much more remedial work is needed before i make a final decision, but i've also been toying with the idea of converting it to one of the class that received a different boiler:

 

 

 

[Jack P]

I decided to have another look at the I3, only because if the chassis is out of true then that's a much bigger job than just a new gearbox. I built up a two stage comet box and fitted a motor sourced locally. (I actually built the single stage comet box first, and then found it wouldn't fit.. d'oh!)

 

 

I don't want to 'blame the tools', as it could well be my own ham fisted attempts that meant the other gearbox didn't run well. However, after fitting the new box and motor Lo and behold, it runs sweetly - and honestly, that's all I care about.

 

I also fitted pickups to the rear radial truck. This coupled with a very simple wire arrangement pressing on the axle provides effective horizontal and vertical springing. 

 

 

Next steps will be fitting the balance weights, and final tweaking before the chassis is complete. Then just a few little bits and bobs to finish off on the body before it can all come together. It's relieving that the end is finally in sight for this long standing project!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Jack P

[Jack P]

I spent some time making myself blind and angry yesterday. 

 

Untitled by Jack Pedersen, on Flickr

 

I completed most of the bodywork on the I3, realising mid way through that i'm missing one of the parts that make up the coal rails. No fuss, I have to make the filled in rails anyway. If that doesn't go well i'll give Dave a call and order some spares.

 

This meant it was time to start on the detailing work. Handrails and pipework..

 

 

 

This has been an exercise in copper wire and split pins. 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a real myriad of pipework. I'm getting close to having completed it all. The next steps are the other finnicky details, lamp irons, steps, sanding gear, etc. She will be finished as 2078, one of the locos that wasn't dual braked click the link to see a photo of her on Brighton shed. I'm also considering replacing the bogie wheels with AG ones, as the romford ones just don't look quite right.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Jack P

[pete_mcfarlane]

I feel your pain. Adding pipework to a Brighton loco is hard work (although if you think an I3 is bad, you should try a dual fitted D1/M with motor train gear....)

[Adam]

6 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I feel your pain. Adding pipework to a Brighton loco is hard work (although if you think an I3 is bad, you should try a dual fitted D1/M with motor train gear....)

 

Anything with motor train gear is a swine. Having installed all the visible pipe work on a Terrier (before Hornby/Rails came along) I can’t help but envy the amount of space something the size of an I3 gives you. That and being able to use ‘normal’ size bits rather than having to make everything a size smaller. You’re right that these things are only superficially plain and need the pipe work to look ‘right’.

 

Adam

[Jack P]

On 01/08/2020 at 10:24, pete_mcfarlane said:

I feel your pain. Adding pipework to a Brighton loco is hard work (although if you think an I3 is bad, you should try a dual fitted D1/M with motor train gear....)

 

On 01/08/2020 at 17:26, Adam said:

 

Anything with motor train gear is a swine. Having installed all the visible pipe work on a Terrier (before Hornby/Rails came along) I can’t help but envy the amount of space something the size of an I3 gives you. That and being able to use ‘normal’ size bits rather than having to make everything a size smaller. You’re right that these things are only superficially plain and need the pipe work to look ‘right’.

 

Adam

 

I'm certainly not complaining (too much) that the loco affords me a large amount of space for fixings. Luckily I don't have any small complex tank engines in the project pile. Having said that, I wouldn't rule out a D1!

 

I am having a real blimmin nightmare with transfers at the moment. 4 different HMRS sheets of Bulleid transfers have all been duff. They are a good few shades darker than all of my others, the surface of them is also very rough, like small blisters and the real pain point - they won't stick!! I've tried different mixtures of Meth + water, but no matter what I do, I can't get them to stick. 

 

The worst was the J, I went to go and apply the big "SOUTHERN" transfer, all going well, went to peel the backing paper off, and the lettering came away with it. Ho hum, i'll leave it for a little while longer. 10 minutes later, same issue. Ok I'll count my losses and remove it completely. The issue was that while the colour part of the transfer hadn't stuck, the backing glue had stuck meaning that there was a transparent and very prominent raised legend on the side tanks. No amount of meth mix or thinner would shift this either. That mean that I had to strip the side tank, and repaint it. Not happy. I'll fire an email off to HMRS and inquire.

 

Some careful masking has left me with this:

 

 

I'm frustratingly close to being done, and i'm sure readers are sick of seeing it!

 

Excuse the average photo, it's a still from a video:

 

 

I've finished off the B4 body! it's been glossed and is now ready for a light weathering. 

 

Slow progress on the I3, fitting the last of the fiddly bits ready for paint. 

[Brocp]

10 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

 

I'm certainly not complaining (too much) that the loco affords me a large amount of space for fixings. Luckily I don't have any small complex tank engines in the project pile. Having said that, I wouldn't rule out a D1!

 

I am having a real blimmin nightmare with transfers at the moment. 4 different HMRS sheets of Bulleid transfers have all been duff. They are a good few shades darker than all of my others, the surface of them is also very rough, like small blisters and the real pain point - they won't stick!! I've tried different mixtures of Meth + water, but no matter what I do, I can't get them to stick. 

 

The worst was the J, I went to go and apply the big "SOUTHERN" transfer, all going well, went to peel the backing paper off, and the lettering came away with it. Ho hum, i'll leave it for a little while longer. 10 minutes later, same issue. Ok I'll count my losses and remove it completely. The issue was that while the colour part of the transfer hadn't stuck, the backing glue had stuck meaning that there was a transparent and very prominent raised legend on the side tanks. No amount of meth mix or thinner would shift this either. That mean that I had to strip the side tank, and repaint it. Not happy. I'll fire an email off to HMRS and inquire.

 

Some careful masking has left me with this:

 

 

I'm frustratingly close to being done, and i'm sure readers are sick of seeing it!

 

Excuse the average photo, it's a still from a video:

 

 

I've finished off the B4 body! it's been glossed and is now ready for a light weathering. 

 

Slow progress on the I3, fitting the last of the fiddly bits ready for paint. 

This is exactly why I'm giving Fox a go mate for my future lining and lettering in the future. HMRS is garbage now. Post war stuff is limited enough and I'm completely over the crap they are selling

[Jack P]

2 hours ago, Brocp said:

This is exactly why I'm giving Fox a go mate for my future lining and lettering in the future. HMRS is garbage now. Post war stuff is limited enough and I'm completely over the crap they are selling

 

Yeeeeeeeep, I've not had trouble with them in the past - well, not this sheet specifically. But Fox looks like a good option, I've used their transfer before on my gate stock. Let me know how you get on dude!

 

 

[Jack P]

The list of things to add to thew I3 to finish it off is getting smaller and smaller. I realized a little while ago that the coal rails provided in the kit would be unsuitable, and I would need to figure out a way of 'filling them in'. Fast forward to tonight. I could only find 2 of the 3 parts. Taking a brave pill, and some inspiration from @DLT I decided to make my own. Equipped with some  0.40mm brass sheet and 0.80mm wire, I set to work.

 

 

 

 

Not quite the same standard. But I surprised myself, they came out ok! There really is a finite list left now, front  and rear lamp irons, and the steps on the fronts of the tanks. (I've said it before but) I'm really looking forward to getting this one done!

[Jack P]

10 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

That's shaping up really well, Jack! I'll have to try the same method for my J tank. 

 

One thing I'd meant to ask, how did you remove the handles on the Birdcages for repainting? I bought some very cheap BR crimson ones for backdating but I'm unsure how to remove the handrails and door handles. 

 

Also, did you remove the lettering before repainting or did you simply paint straight over? 

 

I actually didn't bother removing the handrails or handles I pretty much never do (when repainting stock). What would probably come in super handy after the repaint is a thin piece of plastic card, cut into a rough shape, so that you can slide it around/under the door handle to paint them. I'm a sadist, so I paint them all freehand with a small brush. Clenching the entire time and hoping not to get metallic paint anywhere except where it should be.

 

More difficult if the handrails aren't separately fitted. the ones on this EMU are moulded detail.

 

 

I didn't used to remove numbers, but I always do now, even with a nice coat of primer you can often see them as raised detail. I use enamel, or (only a smidge) Lacquer thinner on a cotton bud to get the numbers off, followed by a light brush with a fibreglass pencil.

 

The real PITA with the birdcage coaches is painting the window surrounds (which are part of the window moulding), possibly with some skillful masking you could prep them and spray them, but I just use a toothpick with the end filed flat to paint them. Any over-spill is cleaned up when dry. 

 

I hope that helps!