Rufford Red Lion Square

[£1.38]

The building with the tower on the third photo in post #38 is a Watson Fothergill building too, by the way - originally a temperance cafe, I believe. The tower part still exists as a takeaway kiosk.

 

WF's offices in George St. Nottingham was really designed to show off a variety of styles and features he could incorporate in his work. Not one for the faint-hearted to build a model of. I admire your determination! I quite fancy doing something based on the former Black Boy Hotel myself, but doubt if I would ever have a layout worth building it for.

[Compound2632]

This is the photo I started with.

 

 

And this is my initial crack at sketching it. 

 

 

I drew this on squared paper at a scale of 5mm to the foot, so it's 20% overscale.  For my current purposes I can work with that; before I build the model it needs to be properly drawn up.  No, the purpose of this drawing was firstly as a practice shot to see which bits might prove to be ticklish to design, let alone build, secondly to puzzle out some of the proportions and approximate dimensions of the various elements, thirdly as an inital crack at generating a drawing at all.

 

You might well ask why I have gone to this effort at all; the sorry fact is that there are very, very few drawings surviving from Watson Fothergill's practice and none at all (according to the catalogue of his work published in 2012 or 2013) of this particular building.  So; if you want a drawing of it, either do it yourself or go without....

 

I have, you will note, erred in some aspects.  I'm convinced that the entire first floor needs to be shifted a little to the left, and the first floor windows probably a little narrower- I've had to omit one window entirely to get the oriel bay in- and that oriel itself is, I think, a little too broad.  The floor to ceiling heights (I decided on 9' as a starting point) are probably about right, possibly a little too tight assuming a window cill height of 3'- the windows fit in well enough but the lintels are then quite a tight fit.  10' floors might be a better bet.  I've included on the drawing a suggestion of the terracota Medieval architect on the first floor.  I'm not certain that will make to the final model- it would be absolutely nightmarish to make and definitively mark the building out as an architect's studio.  We're talking here about an architect who, given a commission to design a newspaper office, decided to put the heads of Liberal politicians onto the facade as a form of decoration.... ergo a little figure holding a plan and with a model cathedral at his feet would definitively be an architect.   

 

It can't be a 100% accurate copy in any case- you will note how the building is built on an incline whilst the OS map of the Rufford area shows it to be almost a perfectly flat plain- and I'm not sure I want a perfect replica of the existing building anyway.  I'd be happier with something that is recognisable as being of the Fothergill catalogue, had he designed something in Rufford (which would have been quite likely as he certainly had commissions in Tuxford and Ollerton). 

 

So, it needs tweaking, but not a bad first attempt. 

 

I think there's just enough brickwork level on the left to establish the vertical scale? I'll look forward to seeing how you do all the fancy stonework - don't leave out the statue, it seems to me essential to the eclectic style of the frontage as a whole. This is clearly going to be a niche project!

[£1.38]

The building does still exist, so in theory it can be measured. It had recently been hit by a vehicle though, last time I passed it, so had a barrier in front.

[James Harrison]

I did resort to brick counting.... one of the advantages of such an intricate building is that the coures are easier to trace back along the facade (even I can't mix up a blue brick and a red one).  Assuming 4 courses to 1' (2.5" brick, 0.5" mortar) as a rule of thumb.  I may have another go at it tonight, if the last of my PO wagon kits doesn't prove too big a temptation for itchy fingers. 

 

The building with the tower on the third photo in post #38 is a Watson Fothergill building too, by the way - originally a temperance cafe, I believe. The tower part still exists as a takeaway kiosk.

 

WF's offices in George St. Nottingham was really designed to show off a variety of styles and features he could incorporate in his work. Not one for the faint-hearted to build a model of. I admire your determination! I quite fancy doing something based on the former Black Boy Hotel myself, but doubt if I would ever have a layout worth building it for.

 

I think you're right you know!  (He did have a thing for turrets and towers, didn't he?)  Looking through the published material on his career, I have the Victorian Society's Powerhouses of Provincial Architecture and Darren Turner's Catalogue of the Works of Watson Fothergill, which are both very good but a bit light on the illustrations side.  I'll go looking for Ken Brand's book too, which might have some more.  One of the things that the catalogue points out is that the majority of the practice's drawings are lost, which is a shame as it makes building a model just that little bit more difficult. 

[James Harrison]

The building does still exist, so in theory it can be measured. It had recently been hit by a vehicle though, last time I passed it, so had a barrier in front.

 

I saw.  A terrible pity, particularly as the element which took a wallop could hardly be more prominent (the masonry face to the bottom of the turret).  I'm surprised, considering it happened two years ago, that it hasn't been repaired yet.  I would hope it finds a new owner and use before things quite get to the stage of being noticed on the Victorian Society's 'at risk' register. 

[Edwardian]

I think there's just enough brickwork level on the left to establish the vertical scale? I'll look forward to seeing how you do all the fancy stonework - don't leave out the statue, it seems to me essential to the eclectic style of the frontage as a whole. This is clearly going to be a niche project!

 

Stunning building.  I love the way that in the photograph the statute is eyeing up the young woman in the street.

[Compound2632]

Assuming 4 courses to 1' (2.5" brick, 0.5" mortar) as a rule of thumb. 

 

A dodgy assumption for Victorian brickwork: 4 courses = 13" often seems nearer the mark - possibly 2 7/8" brick with 3/8" mortar? Victorian mortar courses do look thinner. Here for modern engineering blue bricks 73 mm thick and here for the unintended consequences of taxation policy - if you're taxed per brick, of course you're going to use bigger bricks, aren't you? (Especially if walling up your windows in response to the window tax.)

[£1.38]

I think you're right you know!  (He did have a thing for turrets and towers, didn't he?)  Looking through the published material on his career, I have the Victorian Society's Powerhouses of Provincial Architecture and Darren Turner's Catalogue of the Works of Watson Fothergill, which are both very good but a bit light on the illustrations side.  I'll go looking for Ken Brand's book too, which might have some more.  One of the things that the catalogue points out is that the majority of the practice's drawings are lost, which is a shame as it makes building a model just that little bit more difficult. 

 

Ken Brand's book is a very thin paper booklet. It does have a few photos and a list of buildings in narrative form - plus a map of surviving buildings in central Nottm. It is fairly superficial though.

[£1.38]

The drawing on this page may be of assistance with the office building

 

http://www.nottsheritagegateway.org.uk/people/architects/architectsarchival.htm

[£1.38]

Also found this, which might give you help with Fothergill's proportions and styles

 

 

Definitely of use to me though - all I need now is a layout to put it on

[Andy Hayter]

...............and a mansion to put the layout in!

[James Harrison]

Also found this, which might give you help with Fothergill's proportions and styles

 

Black-Boy-Hotel.jpg

 

Definitely of use to me though - all I need now is a layout to put it on

 

So that's what it looked like!  I did notice he did quite a lot of work on that hotel- going back for repeat business time and again - but I hadn't seen any pictures of it previous to this. 

[Compound2632]

Now I've seen the George Street building in colour, I think I need a lie down...

[£1.38]

So that's what it looked like!  I did notice he did quite a lot of work on that hotel- going back for repeat business time and again - but I hadn't seen any pictures of it previous to this. 

[£1.38]

A Black Boy Hotel exhibition, with a scale model of the hotel

 

- in August at the Nottingham Industrial Museum

 

http://www.nottinghamindustrialmuseum.org.uk/event/black_boy_hotel_exhibition-2/

 

 

Found this too!

 

© Copyright John Sutton and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Edited July 7, 2017 by £1.38

[James Harrison]

Sunday 6th August.... pencilled into the diary. 

 

In other news; the Notts Market Towns book arrived in the post this morning, I've found a copy of that other Watson Fothergill booklet, and, in your typical scattergun approach, I'm looking what can be done in the way of pre-1920 road vehicles (on the back of a rather nice photograph of a GCR-owned Leyland flatbed in one of my books).  I can't find exactly the type in the photo (a Leyland 5-ton type of 1909- a 'U' or 'W' best as I can tell)- but the WD models 3.5-ton Dennis (http://www.wdmodels.com/page5.htm#WDMT1) looks like it would be a good starting point for a hackbash.  

Edited July 8, 2017 by James Harrison

[Edwardian]

Sunday 6th August.... pencilled into the diary. 

 

In other news; the Notts Market Towns book arrived in the post this morning, I've found a copy of that other Watson Fothergill booklet, and, in your typical scattergun approach, I'm looking what can be done in the way of pre-1920 road vehicles (on the back of a rather nice photograph of a GCR-owned Leyland flatbed in one of my books).  I can't find exactly the type in the photo (a Leyland 5-ton type of 1909- a 'U' or 'W' best as I can tell)- but the WD models 3.5-ton Dennis (http://www.wdmodels.com/page5.htm#WDMT1) looks like it would be a good starting point for a hackbash.  

 

This is an excellent range.

 

Perhaps consider also: http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Vehicles___Scale_1_76__OO_.html  (AEC type Y lorry 1915, Ref: SLC132)

[James Harrison]

This is an excellent range.

 

Perhaps consider also: http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Vehicles___Scale_1_76__OO_.html  (AEC type Y lorry 1915, Ref: SLC132)

 

That could work equally well, what's really pushing me toward the WD Models offering is that the instructions and breakdown of parts is shown on their website; so before buying the kit I can see what I'm getting myself into and work out how I'm going to replace/ omit/ alter parts.  With much of the WD body being resin makes it easier to alter- with the appropriate H/S precautions- whilst my experience of cutting whitemetal is that it tends to ruin my tools (I actually keep an old saw that is just for whitemetal, on the basis that being past its best it won't be such an issue when the teeth get full of whitemetal grit and dulled). 

 

Before I do anything though I want to work out what the GCR road vehicle livery was.  It's not in Dow's book (not Vol.3 anyway; I haven't checked Vol.2 yet) and I don't think I'm going to be lucky enough to find an early colour photo or a painting with one in it (the GC owned several hundred road vehicles, but only twenty or so were of the IC type- which reminds me that ultimately I'll need a couple of dray wagons too). 

 

Well, there's 50-odd pages of search results on the NRM website just be typing in Great Central, so I might get lucky. 

[James Harrison]

As it turns out, it's rather funny where information can be found.  Rather having drawn a blank on various internet searches, and having scoured Dow's books to no avail, and having looked through Peter Denny's Buckingham books, again with no joy, I even ended up on ebay looking through old photographs and postcards.  It was at that point that I remembered a few years ago having bought a set of reproduction GCR postcards by Dalkeith.  Bingo!

 

 

Green?  Oh I say that is a surprise. 

[Edwardian]

As it turns out, it's rather funny where information can be found.  Rather having drawn a blank on various internet searches, and having scoured Dow's books to no avail, and having looked through Peter Denny's Buckingham books, again with no joy, I even ended up on ebay looking through old photographs and postcards.  It was at that point that I remembered a few years ago having bought a set of reproduction GCR postcards by Dalkeith.  Bingo!

 

 

Green?  Oh I say that is a surprise. 

 

Great postcards.

 

And fascinating.

 

As is how you managed to upload a picture.

 

Quite a few of us can't.

[t-b-g]

I wonder if the green vehicle livery dates from the period when buildings were painted two tone green.

[James Harrison]

Great postcards.

 

And fascinating.

 

As is how you managed to upload a picture.

 

Quite a few of us can't.

 

The amusing thing is when I bought the postcards I was a little disappointed how only two or three of the set of six actually show locomotives; two of them show road vehicles, another shows one of the Company's steamships.  Just goes to show how many details you don't think are important until you need them.

 

I don't upload directly to RMWeb; I use Imgur and then link back (for the present, and until if/ when they go down the Photobucket route of holding their users to ransom). 

 

 

I wonder if the green vehicle livery dates from the period when buildings were painted two tone green.

 

I think that would be a likely solution; it would tie-in with the company corporate image (urgh, hate that term!) for one.  I say it is surprising because my initial expectation would have been for them to have been painted in either goods or non-passenger coaching stock colours (although I suppose a bright green lorry going down the road would garner more interest than a dull brown one).  

Edited July 9, 2017 by James Harrison

[£1.38]

I think that would be a likely solution; it would tie-in with the company corporate image (urgh, hate that term!) for one.  I say it is surprising because my initial expectation would have been for them to have been painted in either goods or non-passenger coaching stock colours (although I suppose a bright green lorry going down the road would garner more interest than a dull brown one).  

 

It's a steam loco on road wheels - must be lined green loco livery, surely?

[James Harrison]

It's a steam loco on road wheels - must be lined green loco livery, surely?

 

Actually, I wouldn't put it past them... "'Ere Johnnie, that looks a bit drab just in plain green. Where's that pot of white paint and me signwriting brush got to?...."

[Caley Jim]

As is how you managed to upload a picture.

 

Quite a few of us can't.

When you've clicked on the 'Reply quoting this post' button, go down to the bottom of the panel that comes up and click the 'Reply with attachments' button.  That gives you a new panel with buttons below to insert attachments.

 

Jim