Rufford Red Lion Square

[richard i]

Pleased with the result. You should be. How many can half scratch build coaches? 

It leaves my build pace in the dust. I still have a whole sheet of parts to cut out. 

I managed half a set of seats last night.

richard

[Andy Hayter]

Excellent work.  I have some Barnums on my to do list and hope they come out as good as yours.

[Annie]

Barnums are not an easy coach to build and you've done a great job there James.

[James Harrison]

You know a few months ago when we all had terrific fun with sepia-toning photographs?  There's an online tool for autochroming too...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autochrome_Lumière

 

http://www.photo-kako.com/en/autochrome.cgi?

 

And of course one thing led to another and.... some of my Grand Summer Expedition shots took the treatment. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James Harrison]

https://www.walthers.com/city-station-kit-17-5-8-x-5-7-8-x-4-3-8-quot-44-8-x-14-9-x-11-1cm

 

Hmm.  Now then, I wonder.... could it be Anglicanised?  And, if so, could it be GCR-ised?  The middle block I note does look rather like the road-level building at Brackley Central.  I don't like the idea of one small entry/exit door (could be kitbashed), I don't like the big open area (could be kitbashed and enclosed), I don't like the lack of chimney stacks (could be kitbashed).  I do like the size of it though (44cm length is just about perfect, not entirely certain about the 14.9cm width but I can look at that), I like the dormer windows, I think it has potential- if the Praire-style roof overhang can be removed.  It's not very clear, however, what the brick bond is like.  As so often happens, the overall effect is pleasant enough and could have mileage in it but it's the smaller details that maybe let it down. 

[richard i]

It will require a fair bit of work. I wish you luck with it. 

Richard

[James Harrison]

It's just something I'm pondering at the moment- £54 (Gaugemaster price) is a lot of money for something I'd want to kitbash further.  It looks like the brickwork bond is wrong too- which would be something of a deal-breaker for me (unless I found one on Ebay for a song).  I mean I can see some mileage in it; but it's whether the amount of bashing necessary means a complete scratchbuild would result in a better model. 

 

Or of course I could go back to the drawing board and redesign my own building.

[Edwardian]

We have discussed these US Swiss Chalet style buildings before.  They are a perfectly sound choice for a fin de siècle UK station; see the Lynton & Barnstaple among others. 

 

However, many US kits seem to feature stretcher bond brick-work, which would not have been seen on contemporary UK structures. 

[James Harrison]

 

It's English garden bond.... that's not often seen in model form, is it?  That's a bona fide historical brickwork bond too, so.... useable.  I think that definitely tilts the scale. 

 

 

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, James Harrison said:

 

It's English garden bond.... that's not often seen in model form, is it?  That's a bona fide historical brickwork bond too, so.... useable.  I think that definitely tilts the scale. 

 

 

 

I like that. I'd go for that.

 

Not sure what you would need to do/could do by way of Anglicising?

 

it looks pretty useable as it is. 

 

Flights of steps down from the doors are not very English, but removing them allows you to fit taller doors, more suitable for a 4mm scale station. Aside from that, not a lot you need do. 

 

Just add notice boards and station signs, and, perhaps some ornate chimney pots and ridge tiles? 

 

I've bought both pots and ornamental ridge tiles from This range for Castle Aching station, but they might also suit the US station kit. 

[James Harrison]

1. Enclose the open porte cochere at the end. 

2. Timber infills (along the lines of Brackley Central) in place of doorways, steps and windows. 

3. More, smaller, chimney stacks.

 

That's what I'm thinking at the moment.

[James Harrison]

Well.... I went and bought one...  Now, where to keep it until I can build it...

[James Harrison]

It's arrived!... in a big box.  Where am I going to keep this? 

 

Red Lion Square station is more or less settled then. 

[James Harrison]

I've had it a few days, I've looked at the instructions and the bits and done a sketch or two and I think I have a way forward.  Basically the kit is built up as a series of short masonry lumps that are then placed alongside each other to build up the full length structure; a modular approach, essentially. 

 

So, handily, much of what I'm not keen on/ wouldn't be appropriate is limited to a few of these modules and is basically the doors and windows either side of the bay structure on the platform elevation, the wide open bay at the end, and the entrance doorway on the road elevation.  Say 6 modules (8 if I include the road elevation windows too)...

 

Now, what has struck me is how the standard London Extention stations (even the larger ones like Loughborough or Rugby) are also designed around the idea of masonry modules slotted between columns, or at least that's how they appear to me.  At any rate I can see how you might break down their elevations to standard lengths and play mix and match to get a building you want.  So the thought is to draw up some of these modules and see how they might be inserted into the basic Walthers kit. 

[James Harrison]

With my Elswick cruiser nearly finished, or at least finished to the point where you do 10 minutes work on it and have to leave it a day to set or dry out, I'm in a position to take something onto the work bench. 

 

Not the big Walthers station kit!  I'm itching to get into it but the reality is- at the moment- I barely have the room to keep the unbuilt kit, let alone a completed building. 

 

So, instead, I've dug out one of my rakes of Grafar carriages and I'm starting work on updating and improving those.  They come apart easily enough- roof and bogies are a push fit and the glazing sits loosely inside- so painting them is a fairly easy task.  The problems I've identified with the carriages in their current state are that the matchboarding is just drawn on- which I'm rectifying with the aid of a sharp clay sculpting tool- and that the carriage ends are a flat black when they should be teak.  So, two coats of orange paint all over takes out most of the flat black (but not all of it) and I'll take a view later today whether a third coat of orange on the ends only is required. 

 

Then it will be a coat or two of Humbrol satin 133, repaint the roof and reassemble.  A nice, quick little project- repeat five times and I'll have another rake ready for use. 

[James Harrison]

Looking some more at the Walthers kit; I'm not sure, on second thoughts, that simply plugging in bits of London Extension stations will quite work.  It's not really going to gel with the rest of the kit, particularly the arched windows in the gable ends and the dormer.  What would suit it quite well though- and there is an element of deja vu here- is the LDEC station at Edwinstowe, with its brick-arched windows and doorways.  Those 'should' plug in quite neatly.

 

Meanwhile I'm about to start the teak finish on one of the Grafar carriages- one down, twenty-some-odd to go- and once that is done (and the Elswick cruiser finished) I'll look at one of my brass or whitemetal rolling stock kits. 

[James Harrison]

I bit the bullet; I can't go on with the Grafar carriage yet because it was teaked yesterday and the paint is still tacky. 

 

The first kit I came to in my stash was a pair of whitemetal single bolsters from D&S.  The sides and ends didn't look quite large enough to be soldered, so I used UHU glue instead.  This I think is good enough to achieve a square joint and get everything roughly tacked together, I am considering now whether to flood the joints with low-melt solder to really get a strong model. 

 

 

[Poggy1165]

Low melt solder would certainly give you more confidence that the joints would not (eventually) pull apart.

[Caley Jim]

Problem is that if you've already got the joints filled with UHU, then the solder won't unite with the white metal as the glue will stop them coming into contact with one another.  For that to happen the joints have to be completely clean.

 

Jim

[James Harrison]

I've got UHU in there, but the joints aren't completely filled (by which I mean, I didn't use so much glue that it oozed out the sides).  So there should be enough clean material for the solder to take to.  Or; the glue being concentrated in the lower half of each joint, I could turn the wagons right way up and concentrate my soldering efforts in the upper half of each joint.  There's a fair bit of scope to experiment.  I could even (as I've got a bit of scrap etched brass hanging around) see about soldering in gusset plates in the corners.

[Compound2632]

In my experience as a tyro whitemetal solderer, absolute cleanliness and high polish of the faces to be soldered is crucial. I fear that having glued the joint,and left it, it won't be clean enough - some oxidation, I suspect.

[Phil Traxson]

On 06/10/2019 at 15:10, James Harrison said:

I

 

Now, what has struck me is how the standard London Extention stations (even the larger ones like Loughborough or Rugby) are also designed around the idea of masonry modules slotted between columns, or at least that's how they appear to me.  At any rate I can see how you might break down their elevations to standard lengths and play mix and match to get a building you want.  So the thought is to draw up some of these modules and see how they might be inserted into the basic Walthers kit. 

 

I spent quite some time studying the construction of Loughborough GCR station a few years ago. I was thinking of resin casting units to build the station at the time.

The apparent brick columns are only cosmetic finishes to steel goal post type structures which incorporate the main canopy outriggers. (think of a goal post rectangle with the top beam extended either side of the uprights). As you point out the walls between the columns are modular and all consist of three panels each of which has either plain brick, a window opening or a door opening in them. the ends of the building are exactly the same size too, ie. if you put two end panels and two side panels together you get a square.

Without looking for my photo's and sketches I seem to remember that the final goal post arch supports the end of the canopy clear of the building at the toilet block end of the building and its structure is easily seen. If you go into the station buffet (nice cake and the beer wasn't bad) and look up into the join between the outer walls and the ceiling you can see the inner curves of each goal post where they intrude on the square ceiling to wall join.

One other point, which I was slow to gather,  is that the building has a flat roof level with the valley of the canopy ridges, the gables only fill in the back of each ridge and when viewed from above  protrude above the roof on each side. (best appreciated over the bridge parapet from the road outside the station entrance)

The modules on the smaller stations, eg Quorn & Woodhouse, are only two panels wide rather than three, and the buildings that much narrower too.

Incidentally I realised while measuring this all that the station is quite short and could possibly be modelled with little or no compression on a club or group layout. Five coaches with the loco already halfway into the fiddle yard under the bridge!

Hope this diatribe has not bored you too much and is perhaps of some use to someone.

Phil T.  

Edited October 17, 2019 by Phil Traxson
missed out some words

[Phil Traxson]

https://www.snapfish.com/library/share?via=link&token=W5xFmO_EH_yBc0XYZ9ylNA/AUS/27950854341070/SNAPFISH

https://www.snapfish.com/library/share?via=link&token=W5xFmO_EH_yBc0XYZ9ylNA/AUS/27950855166070/SNAPFISH

https://www.snapfish.com/library/share?via=link&token=W5xFmO_EH_yBc0XYZ9ylNA/AUS/27950857124070/SNAPFISH

https://www.snapfish.com/library/share?via=link&token=W5xFmO_EH_yBc0XYZ9ylNA/AUS/27950857341070/SNAPFISH

 

I think these photo's might help with my previous posting (or not!)

Phil T. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Phil Traxson

[James Harrison]

I did wonder actually whether the LE stations were steel framed.  Thanks for confirming for me.  (And don't worry about boring me about LE architecture- it's the sort of thing I find quite interesting). 

[James Harrison]

I tried my hand at whitemetal soldering today.  Not in the most ideal circumstances as I was trying to work into an already-built model so... it didn't go well exactly but I'll try again with another (unbuilt) whitemetal kit. 

 

One recurring issue with my kitbuilt wagons I am finding (and this is whether it's a plastic or a whitemetal kit) is that the solebars spread after construction.  Get the wagon body and chassis built all nice and square, fit the wheels and- even if I then leave it upside down overnight to set- it's odds on that the following day, when turned upright, the axles either drop out or, when the wagon is sitting on its wheels, the solebars push outwards and the body drops onto the wheel flanges.  I'm not sure how I can fix this, or if I'm doing something wrong what exactly it is that I'm doing wrong.