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Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1


Nearholmer
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Some genuine old fashioned pictures. These show my father and his younger brother playing trains in the garden of their home in Oxford. The date would be about 1930.

 

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Sometimes the layout was relocated to the front garden.

 

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As far as I know, none of these trains remained in the family, and my father restarted with gauge 1 in the 50s.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

That could have been me in my parents garden  when I was three (1960s)

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Gentlemen,

 

My thread is deeply honoured ...... what wonderful, wonderful pictures.

 

Unravelled - I spot a BL Duke of York, a BIng George the Fifth, what I think is a small BIng 0-4-0T, the 0-4-0 tender engine I can't be sure whether is Hornby or BIng, and a marvellous meccano station. I can very much relate to the "digging in the dirt" approach, because, not long after the lawn-bahn, came a series of very low-tech 0-16.5 (we didn't know it was called that; we thought we'd invented the idea) efforts with a friend, using home-made bodies on Triang chassis, with dirt-scrape civil engineering.

 

Coronach - have an eye to the Lowke Spirit wagon; quite sought-after. Another George the Fifth in there too, by the looks of it, and if the red midland loco is a single-driver, you really are onto something.

 

Kevin

Edited by Nearholmer
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Guest Isambarduk

"very low-tech 0-16.5 (we didn't know it was called that; we thought we'd invented the idea"

 

Hah! A friend and I did exactly that when we were young teenagers, making a narrow gauge feeder for our garden 0 gauge (tinplate clockwork) garden railway.  That we had both just started as volunteers on the Festiniog Railway, may have had something to do with the initiative.

 

David

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My pal had been on holiday to North Wales, specifically the Vale of Rheidol Railway, so we got into that subject. The Jinty and cornflake packet based loco was never really finished (boiler fittings were always a problem), and the only quarter-decent model that I made was a passenger brake van, which had a bit of the IoM, and a dash of Stroudley, thrown into the mix, on the strength of what few railway books our small-town library held.

 

And, we got into some trouble, for scoffing all of my pal's father's strawberry crop, to fuel our labours!

 

K

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Gentlemen,

My thread is deeply honoured ...... what wonderful, wonderful pictures.

Unravelled - I spot a BL Duke of York, a BIng George the Fifth, what I think is a small BIng 0-4-0T, the 0-4-0 tender engine I can't be sure whether is Hornby or BIng, and a marvellous meccano station. I can very much relate to the "digging in the dirt" approach, because, not long after the lawn-bahn, came a series of very low-tech 0-16.5 (we didn't know it was called that; we thought we'd invented the idea) efforts with a friend, using home-made bodies on Triang chassis, with dirt-scrape civil engineering.

Coronach - have an eye to the Lowke Spirit wagon; quite sought-after. Another George the Fifth in there too, by the looks of it, and if the red midland loco is a single-driver, you really are onto something.

Kevin

The Midland Spinner was built for OS Nock and ran on his Silver Cedars railway. Clockwork tender drive - its provenance is described in his autobiography.
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Guest Isambarduk

"Unravelled - I spot ... a BIng George the Fifth,"

 

Like this one:

 

LNWR4-4-0.jpg

although I bought mine from a jumble sale for 1/3, if I remember correctly, and it didn't look as nice as that!  In fact, it was in a rather poor state: very rusty, no cab, no bogie and no tender, so I had to make the missing items and scavenge for a bogie (see below).

 

GeorgeV-s.jpg

More details at: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/TinplateHistory.htm

 

The tender is far from accurate but when you are thirteen ...

 

David

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Yours looks how I want mine to look. Currently the loco body is reduced to its component parts, while I gently knock the very many dents out of it. The mechanism is now very good, having been boiled in a pot of water on the stove to remove ninety years of thick gunge. It wasn't 1/3, but factoring for inflation was pretty cheap, especially given that the tender had already been restored to a superb standard. If I was at home, I'd append a photo of a drawer-full of bits of tin!

 

It's a bit of a random loco for me, really, and I only got it because there was another tender in the lot that I did actually need, but having got it, it seemed a shame to leave it in such a sad and battered state.

 

BTW, is yours actually a Carette, rather than a Bing? There are several things that suggest so to me. (Strike that: yours is Bing ....... I was misleading myself)

K

Edited by Nearholmer
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This George V (Ptarmigan) has been 'improved' and repainted at some stage in its history.  A stamp under the tender states 'Made in Bavaria' so I assume it is based on a Bing product and pre 1914 ?  It looks like a Bing mechanism however the coupled wheel base is shorter than the splasher spacing.

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Guest Isambarduk

(Strike that: yours is Bing ....... I was misleading myself)

K

 

Yes, indeed it is.  It had BING embossed on the smokebox door but I didn't like that so, when I came across* a smokebox front with a blank door, I swapped them over.

 

I used to be 'Locomotive Superintended' for the Brambleton Model Railway Club (www.brambleton.org.uk), having responsibility for maintaining over fifty clockwork (or 'spring-drive' as they might be called today) locomotives, so I had access to a very large box of 'useful bits'.

 

David

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Coronach

 

Now yours is, I'm pretty sure, Carette originally. Notice the drop in the running plate above the buffer plank, although the tender looks Bing, as do a couple of other things. The Carette mechanism was weedy and fragile, so it might have a Bing mech ...... its clearly had a lot of mods, so it might be a cross-breed all round. Whoever did it clearly had an eye to scale fidelity.

 

Kevin

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The plot thickens ...... here's a picture of a Carette one, and the drop is further back than I recalled, and the shape of the valve-chest cover is different.

 

Has somebody modified a BIng one? Is it partly kit/scratch built? Is it a very early BIng soldered, rather than tabbed one?

 

What I do know is that the history of these toys/models is very complex. There was a long article about them in a TCS journal recently, and even that didn't get right to the bottom of it, so there has been a suggestion that everyone brings all the variants they've got to a TCS meeting, with a view to trying to fix a definitive chronology.

 

In short ...... I'm somewhat out of my depth!

 

Kevin

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Edited by Nearholmer
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The advent of specialist dealers, eBay, and Ramsay's Guide has pretty much robbed the world of the pleasure of finding old tin trains, at bargain prices, in general junk shops, but ......

 

Today, I went into a general junk shop, and came out with a nice old goods brake; a very common item, but very nicely priced.

 

So, a celebration of goods wagons, to illustrate that 'tinplate' isn't entirely about tin. These are all 'common or garden' ones, and I've by no means covered the full field of materials, styles, or makers.

 

First up, today's bargain, a 1940s Hornby brake, with its 1950s descendant, with lamps, and a grey one from BL, also 1950s. Two printed tin, one painted tin.

 

Next, a modern BL printed tin wagon, a 1930s wood and paper-litho by Stedman, and a 1930/40s wooden cattle van from Milbro.

 

Thirdly, what BL and Hornby thought an SR open wagon looked like in the late-1930s, and a free interpretation of the Queen Mary brake by modern maker Bernard Ridgley.

 

Bogie and four-wheel tanks, both modern, by Darstaed and BL. I've got a nice red six-wheeler tank, but I can't find it!

 

Finally, these two must have arrived on the train ferry, being French Hornby c1960. The one on the left is 'mixed media': cloth 'bache', plastic body, and cast aluminium (I think) bogies and wheels.

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Edited by Nearholmer
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Must say I love exploring antique shops for old trains most of what I have found are clockwork but I have bought the odd wagon like yourself for a good price, and get great pleasure in reinstating to traffic on my railway love running my modern stuff alongside true vintage stuff! !.... 

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The advent of specialist dealers, eBay, and Ramsay's Guide has pretty much robbed the world of the pleasure of finding old tin trains, at bargain prices, in general junk shops, 

 

I agree,  eBay & the Internet is convenient,  and for someone like me who models 7mm from the US,  it is my main way to purchase essential parts,  kits etc...  However my Dad recalls

in the 60's when he was collecting Dinky / Solido diecast models,  how much fun it was for him to hunt around in small shops up and down the California coast  (in his TR4 !)  looking for buys,  and 

corresponding with collectors from the UK,  France, Italy etc.... via Mail, and how exciting it was to receive a letter from France and translate it,  or send one and have to wait months to 

receive a reply.   All that is mostly gone,  seems the modern age has taken a lot of adventure, surprise,  and a whole lot of fun with it.  

 

I enjoy coming to this thread,  and seeing photos of your tinplate railway, I can enjoy both finescale and tinplate,  each has their own appeal to me.  I look forward to seeing more of it in time.

Any chance of a video ?

Edited by boxerbayrailway
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Thanks Boxer.

 

There is one video, which originated with my good lady trying to teach me how to use an iPad and simple editing software to make something.

 

 

I really need to make another video, maybe one of those new-fangled talkies, and perhaps even in colour, but I need to paint some figures first, because it all looks a bit spooky with no people!

 

Kevin

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Felix,

 

I can quite imagine the thrill of a letter arriving from faraway places, particularly in the days when foreign travel was the exclusive domain of the rich and famous, and the conscript... but when visiting my mum some months back, she grumbled that I was paying too much attention to my iPad, and how "nobody ever communicates any more".

 

I told her I was communicating, very effectively, with a chap in Brisbane.

 

I do like the immediacy, the broad spread of influence and opinion, the easy availability of information, that the modern world provides. I don't like the bigotry and misinformation that it also facilitates. Maybe we need to teach the ability to discriminate between good & bad, between truth & lies, as part of the schooling for the "Information Age".

 

Yours philosophically

Simon

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The advent of specialist dealers, eBay, and Ramsay's Guide has pretty much robbed the world of the pleasure of finding old tin trains, at bargain prices, in general junk shops, but ......

 

Today, I went into a general junk shop, and came out with a nice old goods brake; a very common item, but very nicely priced.

 

So, a celebration of goods wagons, to illustrate that 'tinplate' isn't entirely about tin. These are all 'common or garden' ones, and I've by no means covered the full field of materials, styles, or makers.

 

First up, today's bargain, a 1940s Hornby brake, with its 1950s descendant, with lamps, and a grey one from BL, also 1950s. Two printed tin, one painted tin.

 

Next, a modern BL printed tin wagon, a 1930s wood and paper-litho by Stedman, and a 1930/40s wooden cattle van from Milbro.

 

Thirdly, what BL and Hornby thought an SR open wagon looked like in the late-1930s, and a free interpretation of the Queen Mary brake by modern maker Bernard Ridgley.

 

Bogie and four-wheel tanks, both modern, by Darstaed and BL. I've got a nice red six-wheeler tank, but I can't find it!

 

Finally, these two must have arrived on the train ferry, being French Hornby c1960. The one on the left is 'mixed media': cloth 'bache', plastic body, and cast aluminium (I think) bogies and wheels.

You still get some tin-plate railway items in our local Retro-market, although currently the railway stock mainly seems to be boxed OO Hornby sets. The tinplate recently has been foreign toys to odd scales and often the ones that run around on any surface.

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Thanks Purple. I'm afraid you'd be disappointed if you actually saw the layout; by using camera angles carefully, I attempt to conceal that fact that, despite a lot of "chopsin", to use a word my grandmother was fond of, it isn't much more than bare boards and track, yet.

 

Simon - your philosophy is highly relevant, IMO. Certainly the school that my two go to tries very hard to teach decent values, and critical thinking, but, by golly, is it a challenge to pick out sense in a world full of lazy trash, polluted with mendacious trash.

 

Phil - I've noticed that the retro shop near us occasionally has HD and Dinky bits. I get the impression that they are aimed at trendy young hipsters with big beards (although, word is that beards are 'yesterday', which you may need to know), as 'set dressing' for retro-themed home decor, rather than sad old blokes who like to play trains.

 

Kevin

Edited by Nearholmer
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I like the video, though I dunno about the music. You've got trains running, hang on, YOUVE GOT TRAINS RUNNING! That's the main thing. I particularly liked where you were pacing the train from overhead looking down, it reminded me of what having an oval was about, the sheer joy of watching a train in motion.

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I hope Nearholmer will allow a small hijack from me.

 

This thread has been nagging away at me as I have had a half baked idea in the back of my head for a while now ( I even started collecting a few kits - any excuse eh ? ) .The images here only make me more encouraged to think more seriously about the idea.

 

My day job has me striving more and more for realism and increased detail and while I enjoy that I can't help feeling that something so much simpler might be more enjoyable for my own 'layout' - really more of a moving diorama / No, a moving collection I guess.

 

The last few pictures here have tipped me over the edge, so I wanted to prove to myself it just would not work!

 

So I grabbed some cork and some OO setrack - and of course it just looked like what it was. So I roughly sanded the edge of the cork, flooded it with a thin dark umber wash followed by a pink ( yes pink ) drybrush - hmmm. Then I painted the track a dark flat brown and polished the rail top ....

 

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My half baked idea is to collect and build Airfix and Rosebud / Kitmaster kits ( make a few Ratio items too ) , motorise a few locos , paint ( simply ) some airfix figures complete with their bases.

 

Moving version of scenes inspired by these box tops ...

 

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Sorry again for the hijack - I won't make a habit of it I promise.

Edited by ThePurplePrimer
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Oh, dear!

 

This retro-modelling is catching, isn't it!

 

Doesn't that first Airfix picture resemble the "Thomas" endpaper illustration that Edwardian posted for us?

 

Is it possible that we are actually attempting to create fine-scale, in the sense of accurate, models of our own pasts? Or, our idealised pasts, or, given the dateline of mine, somebody else's past? A mental past, rather than a real past in miniature.

 

Did anyone mention Superquick card kits? I nearly 'accidentally' bought an armful of them the other day ....... just about had a rare outbreak of common sense in time. I do not need to start a c1963 layout, all Hornby Dublo, the better bits of Triang, Airfix kits etc etc. I really, seriously don't!

 

Kevin

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Oh, dear!

 

This retro-modelling is catching, isn't it!

 

Doesn't that first Airfix picture resemble the "Thomas" endpaper illustration that Edwardian posted for us?

 

Is it possible that we are actually attempting to create fine-scale, in the sense of accurate, models of our own pasts? Or, our idealised pasts, or, given the dateline of mine, somebody else's past? A mental past, rather than a real past in miniature.

 

Did anyone mention Superquick card kits? I nearly 'accidentally' bought an armful of them the other day ....... just about had a rare outbreak of common sense in time. I do not need to start a c1963 layout, all Hornby Dublo, the better bits of Triang, Airfix kits etc etc. I really, seriously don't!

 

Kevin

 

I have to confess that, having mucked about rather ineffectually in 7mm, entertained fantasies of having thee eyesight and dexterity to do something in 2FS and contemplated all sorts of other lunacy, I find myself increasingly drawn to the modelling of decades ago. Early 60s because I was exposed to old catalogues and books of Dads, and mid/late-70s when I was taking an interest in Railway Modeller in my own right. My current interests du jour are 3-rail Dublo (with a view to eventual outdoor use) and CJ Freezer "Modern Image" plans utilising Code 100 track and populated with cheap Lima diesels.

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A propos "images of our childhood" and even more, "knowing it must have been so, because old books show it", it might be appropriate to consider a certain Mr John Major, latterly of my home-town parish. The 1992 Conservative election campaign was much noted for this sort of thing, Vaughn Williams overtures and old maids bicycling through the mist included.

 

The Shakespeare "John of Gaunt" speech scrolled up over the Vaughn Williams seascape, although NOT the latter part of that speech, which is an attack on the political corruption of the day. Mr Major delivered a nostalgic image; but one which suggested that the actual origin (George Orwell's essay "The Lion And The Unicorn") was little known to him, since Orwell uses the image as part of a wider, less complimentary picture;

 

"The clatter of clogs in the Lancashire mill towns, the to-and-fro of the lorries on the Great North Road, the queues outside the Labour Exchanges, the rattle of pin tables in the Soho pubs, old maids biking to Holy Communion through the mists of the autumn mornings, these are not only fragments, but characteristic fragments, of the English scene."

 

However Orwell was also discussing this image as a piece of rose-tinted nostalgia, as something which even then was rarely seen. He also remarked that Bertie Wooster was killed at Mons or Arras, although Blandings still stood.

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