Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Northroader]

You’ll find more about the problem over on the “Night Mail “ thread.

[Simond]

5 hours ago, Donw said:

Rafe Shirley one of the finest builders of live steam 0 gauge I have met submitted an article on repairing an Eddie Cooke King. The handrail knobs on this loco did not have blind bushes but were srewed into 10BA holes in the boiler and secured with loctite 572. Someone wrote in saying this was unsafe. I had passed the letter to Rafe for comments who pointed out that it had been built like that by Eddie Cooke a well respected builder, that some of LBSCs designs advocated the same and that he had actully replaced the boiler and fiied blind bushes to the new one. However he went one stage further and having estimated the force on  10ba as being about 5oz took a piece of 20gauge copper tappd it 10ba and fitted a 10ba brass screw this held 22lbs beore there was even a bit of distortion. He considered a safety factor of 71 more than adequate and that if your loco lacked blind bushes it was still safe.

Don

 

Yes, I'm aware of similar discussions, indeed, have a vague recollection of the letters you refer to. 

 

A factor of safety of > 3 would be accepted to be plenty, (not sure where the 71 comes from) but, and it is a very big but, the above assumes that the threads are in good condition, and the question raised was "I've got damaged threads".  And at a distance, I'm not in the business of making assumptions, particularly ones I can't validate.  Hence my recommended cautious approach.

[Nearholmer]

51 minutes ago, Simond said:

not sure where the 71 comes from

 

(22 x 16)/5 = 70.4

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

3 hours ago, Simond said:

 

Yes, I'm aware of similar discussions, indeed, have a vague recollection of the letters you refer to. 

 

A factor of safety of > 3 would be accepted to be plenty, (not sure where the 71 comes from) but, and it is a very big but, the above assumes that the threads are in good condition, and the question raised was "I've got damaged threads".  And at a distance, I'm not in the business of making assumptions, particularly ones I can't validate.  Hence my recommended cautious approach.

 

As Nearholmer says 22x16/5= 70.4   it may have been a fraction less than the5oz. Cross sectional area of the tapped part of the handrail knob x  maxboiler pressure.

 

If you would accept a safety factor of three  the damaged threads would need to be able to support 1lb.

 

Don

[Simond]

Can you be confident that the damaged thread would support the load?

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Simond said:

Can you be confident that the damaged thread would support the load?

 

I stongly suspect the damaged threads would be more likely to cause a leak than an explosion firing the item out. Obviously is depends oon the amount of damage. I rather think I might silver solder the handrail knob in place.

 

Don

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Well, thankfully, after 3 failed attempts over a period of 4 months, the fitting manged to unscrew itself from the bushing with some help. I was able to get the bushing soldered back into its hole, and after a little more careful heating, the darn thing came out. The plan at the moment, now that I have chased the threads and reinstalled the whistle, is to once again get my coarse scale floor layout back in action. Are there any steps that should be taken when doing such a thing?

 

Here are some photos, the first showing the fitting.

 

 

 

 

Douglas

[Simond]

The male thread appears to be ok on this side, if the underside is the same, I’d suggest it’s probably ok, but I can’t assess the female thread in the bush.

 

 
 

 

 

 

[34006]

The two threads to the right hand end look a bit closer together than the others,and the top part seems closer together than the bottom part.In fact there seems to be a definite bend in it,forth thread from left.Perhaps another run down with a die or die nut would cure it?

Don't want to appear negative,but we don't need accidents with boiling water either.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Nearholmer]

All the areas of the thread that I’ve scribbled over in red look deformed to varying degrees to me.

 

 

A die run down it will make it fit properly, but will remove ‘meat’ in the process.

 

Have you got the facility to turn a new one?

[Simond]

I agree that the thread does look deformed in this area.   I’m not sure how a thread can be cross threaded part way along it.  Very curious.

 

In the final analysis, making new, both male & female, will be the safest course of action, for whilst the risks are probably low, they remain real.  Leaving aside the risk of the part being ejected, which seems unlikely, simply being squirted with steam or boiling water is going to hurt or worse, and the risk needs to be treated with respect.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, Simond said:

The male thread appears to be ok on this side, if the underside is the same, I’d suggest it’s probably ok, but I can’t assess the female thread in the bush.

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, 34006 said:

The two threads to the right hand end look a bit closer together than the others,and the top part seems closer together than the bottom part.In fact there seems to be a definite bend in it,forth thread from left.Perhaps another run down with a die or die nut would cure it?

Don't want to appear negative,but we don't need accidents with boiling water either.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

46 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

All the areas of the thread that I’ve scribbled over in red look deformed to varying degrees to me.

 

 

A die run down it will make it fit properly, but will remove ‘meat’ in the process.

 

Have you got the facility to turn a new one?

 

20 minutes ago, Simond said:

I agree that the thread does look deformed in this area.   I’m not sure how a thread can be cross threaded part way along it.  Very curious.

 

In the final analysis, making new, both male & female, will be the safest course of action, for whilst the risks are probably low, they remain real.  Leaving aside the risk of the part being ejected, which seems unlikely, simply being squirted with steam or boiling water is going to hurt or worse, and the risk needs to be treated with respect.

Fear not guys, that fitting has been thrown away and the original whistle is being fitted. I put the photo there to show what it looked like. 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Hello all,

 

Thought we might like to see some photos I took of the fist test run in garden (the weather is nice at the moment). 
 

It wasn’t the most successful as a leak was discovered, which was fixed the same day. Later in the day a second run was had, and the engine caught fire due to accidental overfilling of the burner, but thankfully no damage was done. 
 

In the first photo you see the engine coupled to my BL mk 1s, which it was load tested on today. Unfortunately it is still lacking oomph to pull them, due to the dodgy meth that is sold in the USA. Currently I’m looking at using Everclear, or maybe wood alcohol. USA meths only contains 40-60% (the rest is stuff to stop alcoholics drinking it) methanol, but the UK has a much higher methanol content, making it burn hotter. 
 

 

 

 

 

Douglas

[St Enodoc]

Not all 0 scale but definitely old-fashioned, and with some rather odd descriptions too:

 

https://www.allbids.com.au/t/jack-little-toy-collection?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2021-04-23 - Jack Little Toy Collection - Upcoming Auctions&utm_content=2021-04-23 - Jack Little Toy Collection - Upcoming Auctions+CID_dedbc269dbcb4a381358e83084c9f8ef&utm_source=Email Marketing&utm_term=CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE MODEL TRAIN AUCTION#!?page=1&count=50&filter[Display]=true

[Nearholmer]

Ah, yes, that completely incompetently described auction has it’s own thread.

 

There are definitely people in Australia who know vast amounts about old toy/model trains, but clearly none of them work for this auction house.

 

Large wood and canvas assembly, with thick covering of old oil paint. Once belonged to a Mr Rembrandt.
 

[F-UnitMad]

On 25/04/2021 at 16:07, Florence Locomotive Works said:

It wasn’t the most successful as a leak was discovered, which was fixed the same day. Later in the day a second run was had, and the engine caught fire

Sorry but that did make me laugh - the perils of playing with toy trains powered the same way the real thing is!! 

I suppose there are slight risks with models powered by elektrickery  

 

....but what are or were the risks from clockwork?     

[Annie]

3 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

....but what are or were the risks from clockwork?     

Long hair tangled in the mechanism, - ask me how I know this.

[F-UnitMad]

1 minute ago, Annie said:

Long hair tangled in the mechanism, - ask me how I know this.

Ouch!!!! 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

15 minutes ago, Annie said:

Long hair tangled in the mechanism, - ask me how I know this.

 

14 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Ouch!!!! 

I have a book by J.M. Dunn, shed master of Bangor in which he relates how he got revenge on his cousin (when they were children in about 1898) for something by putting his Bing clockwork on his very lengthy Victorian child hair. It is quite an amusing passage.

[Nearholmer]

37 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

I suppose there are slight risks with models powered by elektrickery 

 

If you choose the right ones, those that run from the main via a carbon-filament lamp and a rheostat acting as a potential-divider and controller, it is possible to experience considerable risk, because the open-circuit voltage on the track is ........... mains voltage.

 

Don't. Unless you really know what you're doing.

[Ben B]

25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

If you choose the right ones, those that run from the main via a carbon-filament lamp and a rheostat acting as a potential-divider and controller, it is possible to experience considerable risk, because the open-circuit voltage on the track is ........... mains voltage.

 

Don't. Unless you really know what you're doing.

 

 

I found this amusing when I bought it from the second-hand sales coach at the SVR, Hampton Loade.  It's a Mettoy set, I just love that selling point printed so boldly all over the packaging about how there's no electric shocks...

 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

If you choose the right ones, those that run from the main via a carbon-filament lamp and a rheostat acting as a potential-divider and controller, it is possible to experience considerable risk, because the open-circuit voltage on the track is ........... mains voltage.

 

Don't. Unless you really know what you're doing.

 
 

Theres always this:

 

The video shows an associate of mine, A. E. Karnes operating a probably 1 inch scale live steam Robey undertype semi portable engine. He explains the rest, which is a fair bit.

 

 

Douglas

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Florence Locomotive Works

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Large wood and canvas assembly, with thick covering of old oil paint. Once belonged to a Mr Rembrandt.

A fellow was clearing out his loft when he found an old painting and a violin, so he took them to be valued.

 

"I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that you have a Rembrandt and a Stradivarius. The bad news is that the violin's by Rembrandt and the painting's by Stradivarius."

 

I thank you.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

If you choose the right ones, those that run from the main via a carbon-filament lamp and a rheostat acting as a potential-divider and controller, it is possible to experience considerable risk, because the open-circuit voltage on the track is ........... mains voltage.

 

Don't. Unless you really know what you're doing.

That reminds me of the lighting circuits on old SR EMUs - each circuit had ten 65V lamps wired in series...

[Nearholmer]

I’m sure I recall 4-SUB being three 240V 60W ES in series across the compartment. They used to suffer flash overs in the lamp holders if the bulbs got broken.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Nearholmer