Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Donw]

I may have given the impression that Frank's layout was coarse scale. My intention was to point out that the advantages of tight curves and short trains could be combined with finely modelled stock to achieve an interesting layout in a practical space. One of the joys of Tinplate was the intention to run trains. Frank certainly did that. Andy G is lucky to have known Frank.

 

Don 

[Edwardian]

I have now set up a album with pictures from a couple of visits to the Brighton Toy and Model Museum, including all sorts of exhibits, not just railways, at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/4193-brighton-toy-and-model-museum/

 

Thank you for taking the time to post all those pictures - some OO, ships and WW1 era toys, too, I notice - which I very much enjoyed browsing.

 

Looking again at the O gauge pictures, the tinplate buildings are stunning.  I realised what the scene reminded my of; those rich and almost luminous colours of the old Reginald Dalby illustrations of the Railways Series.

 

To have such colour, whether in print or tinplate, must have brightened up the post-War greyness for many lucky children.

[Nearholmer]

Interesting you should mention the Railway Series illustrations. It had struck me that, perhaps, they had stuck deep in my psyche, giving me a taste for a rather sternly simplified, clean-lined, sort of look to a railway. I certainly used to spend a worryingly long time studying that picture that was on the end-papers of each book, showing a station with all sorts of (to me at age three, anyway) engaging details.

 

Lest it be forgotten, there were other illustrators, before Dalby, and Thomas, and much of the classic look, was actually originated by Reginald Payne, a part-time artist, who let the job drop because of personal and work issues.

 

K

[uax6]

It was anythi

 

I may have given the impression that Frank's layout was coarse scale. My intention was to point out that the advantages of tight curves and short trains could be combined with finely modelled stock to achieve an interesting layout in a practical space. One of the joys of Tinplate was the intention to run trains. Frank certainly did that. Andy G is lucky to have known Frank.

 

Don 

It was anything but coarse. His locos were a delight to see and use, as was all the stock. I'd so love to find what happened to them all (I'd love to be able to buy his jackshaft drive LMS EE diesel shunter.....

 

The overwhelming memory is the gradient to Kenbrennan Castle from Lutton. The boards were clearance height above the fiddle yards, which I guess would be about 6-8" in 0 gauge. The branch train had to take this climb in about 18-24".....

That and the block instruments.....

 

Andy G

[Edwardian]

 I certainly used to spend a worryingly long time studying that picture that was on the end-papers of each book, showing a station with all sorts of (to me at age three, anyway) engaging details.

 

 

 

So, not just me then.

 

Thank God for that!

 

EDIT - In case anyone needs a 'fix':

Edited March 20, 2017 by Edwardian

[Donw]

Now don't get on to Thomas. I had the pleasure of meeting Rev Awdry at Central hall when he was there with his Thomas layout.

 

Don

[Edwardian]

Now don't get on to Thomas. I had the pleasure of meeting Rev Awdry at Central hall when he was there with his Thomas layout.

 

Don

 

I envy you that!

 

I only learnt to read because of his books, and I fondly recall the RM articles featuring Ffarqhar..

[Donw]

I envy you that!

 

I only learnt to read because of his books, and I fondly recall the RM articles featuring Ffarqhar..

 

I suspect you are too young. I would have been about 12 or 13 London was only an easy train ride away. 

Don

[Edwardian]

I suspect you are too young. I would have been about 12 or 13 London was only an easy train ride away. 

Don

 

Possibly.  He was certainly alive for long enough to overlap, but probably not out exhibiting his layout.

 

As a Leicestershire lad, I was once entertained at Cadeby by the Fat Clergyman, however!  Treasured memory.

[Donw]

One fortunate meeting occurred at the Infamous MRJ Central Hall show. There were queues to get in and it was packed. The queue to get lunch was very long, however I got talking to the two gentlemen next to me one of whom turned out to be Don Boreham  a well known Narrow Gauge Modeller. It was worth the entrance money to chat to them and share a lunch table. Don was full of stories . He was an accomplished organist and played at a friends wedding slipping from here comes the bride into I'm just a girl who can't say no and back. He also had the distinction of having married Elizabeth Taylor twice. One of life great characters.

 

Don

[phil_sutters]

Thank you for taking the time to post all those pictures - some OO, ships and WW1 era toys, too, I notice - which I very much enjoyed browsing.

 

Looking again at the O gauge pictures, the tinplate buildings are stunning.  I realised what the scene reminded my of; those rich and almost luminous colours of the old Reginald Dalby illustrations of the Railways Series.

 

To have such colour, whether in print or tinplate, must have brightened up the post-War greyness for many lucky children.

You are very welcome. They had been uploaded to my ipernity photo-sharing albums, so they were ready to go.

I, today, have bought, for the princely sum of £2, Edward Beal's New Developments in Railway Modelling, published in 1947. It included "Recent tendencies, new designs and useful guidance" and the publishers' want you to know that "This book is produced in complete conformity with the authorized economy standards."

So far my favorite section is his description of the construction of an OO gauge rotary wagon-tippler which he found to be "a thoroughly practicable item." It is built with the use of two small Gauge 1 driving wheels - de-spoked and "eight discarded OO-gauge wagon wheels" "The main frame can very well be formed of brass O-gauge running rail if desired." All things we have lying about awaiting some useful purpose!

 

I am impressed that he includes American layouts and road vehicles in his considerations and he has an interesting page on the development of automatic couplings. There are some nice photos of John Ahern's layout.

Edited March 21, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Nearholmer]

Beal is very interesting; I love his drawing style, and cadged the shading approach that I used on my mount-card retaining walls from him. He was great pals with one of the American railway magazine editors, Linn Wescott I think, and was dead-keen to import the best of US ideas into British railway modelling. I've got a feeling that he and Ahern may have been instrumental in the setting-up of the British "chapter" (why do they have to make it sound like a Hell's Angels or KKK branch?!) of the NMRA.

 

A lot has been lost along the way since these guys, in that they had the art of whipping-up a credible model railway, using very simple materials and techniques, 80% there, with 20% of the resources, whereas modern finescale seems to need 110% of the resources, to get 98% there ....... the law of diminishing returns methinks. I don't knock modern finescale, but it is in approach where 'getting to the good bit', playing trains with a purpose, takes absolutely blooming ages!

 

K

[Donw]

It doesn't have to take ages. It is really a matter of getting organised. In 0 gauge because there wasn't much trade stuff around it became the norm to do mostly kit and scratch building unless you had deep pocket to commission models. This meant that many of those attracted to the scale were people who enjoyed building stuff and for them that was the main focus so getting to run trains came second to building. Now there is increasing RTR the scale is attracting more who cannot wait to get trains running.

Peco track is fairly quick to lay I know it doesn't satisfy everyone. For those who want to make their own track it doesn't take that long once you get into the rhythm unless it is a large complex layout especially if you use matching flexi track for the plain bits of track.

Often the real problem is finding time to spend on the hobby. The TV/Gardening/DIY etc. can all consume more time than spent on modelling. So can being on here. I tend to do that when eating as modelling tools are not very acceptable at the table. In my case it is the major DIY that really eats the time.

The other side of it is making the most of the time you can spend on the hobby. Having the tools and parts to hand spends up progress so does having the workbench clear enough to be a workbench. Some things are best done is a blitz manner, building baseboards for example can be messy getting a lot done in a day then cleaning up may be better than doing a little bit everyday when you can seem to be spending more time clearing up than any progress. Other jobs, if you can leave a baseboard erected and tools out track laying can be done in short bits. Spot one I might lay down some sleepers, spot two cut and prepare some rails, spot three thread chairs onto the rails, spot for lay the rails. This also allows adhesives time to set. 

Don

[Guest Isambarduk]

"'getting to the good bit', playing trains with a purpose,"

 

But that's just it: for many of us the pleasure is in the building and we spend relatively little time on playing trains before we want to be back in the workshop making things again :-)  David

[Edwardian]

Interesting thoughts.  For me the "good bits" are the pretty, pretty fru, fru bits - houses, people, stock etc. I don't know how much I will enjoy operating, as I have not operated a model railway since about age 12!

 

The slightly wearying bits to get there are (a) creation of a railway-compatible habitat, (b) baseboards and supports, and, I predict, © will certainly be wiring, which I shall absolutely hate, loath, fear and abhor because electricity and circuits and things is something that you can explain a 1000 times to me, as if to a child, and I still won't get it. 

 

Track laying/building, I predict, might be somewhere in the middle of the spectrum.

 

What I think is bad for morale is if there is a long slog or delay between start and tangible progress and I cannot help but agree with those who say that getting the tack down and something running is a watershed moment.   One I hope to live long enough to achieve!

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I was stirring the pudding ever-so-slightly there, wasn't I?

 

I spent many years where "the good bit" was building 009 loco kits; and, some more years where it was making a very buildings-intense wharf scene in US H0; and, some more years where it was detailing diorama-type scenes in 0-14; and, some more where it was scratchbuilding wagons from wood in 15mm/ft; so, I sure recognise that "playing trains" isn't anything like the whole story. Satisfaction can be found by many routes.

 

That having been acknowledged, I still hold that Beal could do, with a few lines of black Indian ink 80% of "the full job" ...... many of his wagons were small cardboard boxes, with drawing on them, but they are instantly recognisable as what they are intended to be.

 

And, Don, by "modern finescale", I didn't mean track/wheel standards (it actually takes a good deal longer to lay the track I've used than it does Peco, perversely); I was thinking of the degree of fine detail that is applied these days in all scales, which is way beyond the 80/20 point.

 

Kevin

Edited March 21, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

"'getting to the good bit', playing trains with a purpose,"

 

But that's just it: for many of us the pleasure is in the building and we spend relatively little time on playing trains before we want to be back in the workshop making things again :-)  David

 

And long may you continue making such fine models. However some of us find operating a lot of fun. That includes some superb builders.

Don

[Donw]

Interesting thoughts.  For me the "good bits" are the pretty, pretty fru, fru bits - houses, people, stock etc. I don't know how much I will enjoy operating, as I have not operated a model railway since about age 12!

 

The slightly wearying bits to get there are (a) creation of a railway-compatible habitat, (b) baseboards and supports, and, I predict, © will certainly be wiring, which I shall absolutely hate, loath, fear and abhor because electricity and circuits and things is something that you can explain a 1000 times to me, as if to a child, and I still won't get it. 

 

Track laying/building, I predict, might be somewhere in the middle of the spectrum.

 

What I think is bad for morale is if there is a long slog or delay between start and tangible progress and I cannot help but agree with those who say that getting the tack down and something running is a watershed moment.   One I hope to live long enough to achieve!

 

I would have thought that as a lawyer you might have a fairly logical mind. Layout wiring is a fairly logical process. However I will supply you with easy to follow diagrams tailored to your layout if it will help. If you lived nearby I would do it for you.

Don

[Donw]

Yes, I was stirring the pudding ever-so-slightly there, wasn't I?

 

I spent many years where "the good bit" was building 009 loco kits; and, some more years where it was making a very buildings-intense wharf scene in US H0; and, some more years where it was detailing diorama-type scenes in 0-14; and, some more where it was scratchbuilding wagons from wood in 15mm/ft; so, I sure recognise that "playing trains" isn't anything like the whole story. Satisfaction can be found by many routes.

 

That having been acknowledged, I still hold that Beal could do, with a few lines of black Indian ink 80% of "the full job" ...... many of his wagons were small cardboard boxes, with drawing on them, but they are instantly recognisable as what they are intended to be.

 

And, Don, by "modern finescale", I didn't mean track/wheel standards (it actually takes a good deal longer to lay the track I've used than it does Peco, perversely); I was thinking of the degree of fine detail that is applied these days in all scales, which is way beyond the 80/20 point.

 

Kevin

 

I do see your point and once you have one finely detailed model it shows up those less finely endowed. Have you seen Jim Reads threads or his web site here http://www.jasread.com/micro/ You can buy in bits that would take time to make but printing the drawings off and sticking them onto card would make producing wagons much quicker. Peter Smith does similar things including coaches on his SaltDean layout thread on here..

 

Mike Vincent had a US based 0 gauge layout with hand laid dual gauge track, scratch built buildings  and full scenic yet he found many 0 gaugers 'sniffy' because he had bought rtr US locos knowing he could not match their quality.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

To take our minds off the possibility that I might have created a controversy, let's have a picture of a nice old train, which somehow found itself circulating, while I was piling the ironing.

 

BL standard (= generic) goods engine from the late 1930s. The previous owner had fitted a modern motor, and I've fitted new axles, to give "coarse", rather than "Greenly" b-t-b, and I've just noticed that it needs a fall-plate. They did make these in SR livery, but very few, so affordability dictated an LNER or LMS one in non-original condition.

 

The tender coal space appears to have flooded, or maybe that an annoying reflection.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Nearholmer

[ChrisN]

Interesting thoughts.  For me the "good bits" are the pretty, pretty fru, fru bits - houses, people, stock etc. I don't know how much I will enjoy operating, as I have not operated a model railway since about age 12!

 

The slightly wearying bits to get there are (a) creation of a railway-compatible habitat, (b) baseboards and supports, and, I predict, © will certainly be wiring, which I shall absolutely hate, loath, fear and abhor because electricity and circuits and things is something that you can explain a 1000 times to me, as if to a child, and I still won't get it. 

 

Track laying/building, I predict, might be somewhere in the middle of the spectrum.

 

What I think is bad for morale is if there is a long slog or delay between start and tangible progress and I cannot help but agree with those who say that getting the tack down and something running is a watershed moment.   One I hope to live long enough to achieve!

 

Just a thought.  I have wired my track, although I cheated and used insulfrog points.  (It was an honest mistake.  No really guv, I thought I had ordered live frogs and they turned up dead!)  I am still not happy though so when I get round to building my locos, (25 or so coaches to build first.  First two took ten months,  that's 25 divide by.........take away the number you first thought of........ add 3.........  equals quite a while,) I have considered using radio control.  No wiring, not track cleaning but maybe a tad expensive.

 

Not wishing to hi jack the thread any longer, I do like that 0-6-0.  I am only pleased they do not do Cambrian locos in tin plate.  A Cambrian 4-4-0 would be hard to resist.

[Nearholmer]

You'd better be careful, Chris, one of the 'tinplate' makers has a "maybe, maybe not" plan to produce an ex-Cambrian 0-6-0 goods engine. They shelved the plan a long while ago, but floated it again quite recently.

 

I'm no good at all on Cambrian things, and to me the prototype model looks like a "rebuilt Dean goods gone a bit wrong", so I'm not sure what actual class is under discussion.

 

Perhaps fortunately, I've heard of no plans to make a Cambrian 4-4-0!

 

K

[Nearholmer]

David/Isambard,

 

Have you any experience of building live-steam in 0?

 

Kevin

[Guest Isambarduk]

Kevin, Hi,

 

"Have you any experience of building live-steam in 0?"

 

Very little, to be honest.  I have made parts for others and I dabbled with gauge 0 live steam as an older teenager but I came to the conclusion at the time that it was best done on a slightly larger scale, gauge 1 or gauge 3.  I had always intended to 'get into' this when I was older but things take rather too long with me and I am a lone modellers so I never got there, even though I am undoubtedly older now!

 

That said, if I met somebody who lived close who was interested in gauge 0 live steam, I could easily be drawn in.

 

If I may, why do you ask?

 

David

[Nearholmer]

Another of the occasional correspondents here is on the brink of reviving his own half-completed 0 gauge live steam project from many moons ago, and I was wondering whether you might have experience that he might wish to share.

 

K