Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Edwardian]

My mantelpiece is bigger than yours

- print found in a house in north Somerset passed to my father, who identified the photographer as A.H.Malan. This was confirmed when it and two similar prints were offered to NRM. They forwarded them to The National Archive where the main body of Malan's archive is held.

2-2-2 Wigmore Castle, Box, c1893 1024pixel h.jpg

 

Ceci n'est pas une boîte?!?

 

Marvellous to see the layouts coming together in their new home.  Look forward to lots of news and pictures.

[Nearholmer]

Est il possiblement un arbre de buis sur la droite?

 

K

Edited March 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

And the good news is we've just done the first page and strayed away from the London suburbs and southern counties to Egypt and Belgium already. Very interested by this tinplate rebuild mentioned on Senor Corbs new thread, where that going? On here I hope, or I am going to lose the plot!

[Nearholmer]

The idea of having one thread was to focus a bit ......

 

Anyway, the 0-4-0T rebuild is in a queue, behind about twenty more important model railway jobs, but I have found a good chassis for it in my "going cheap; might come in useful" stash, but that in turn needs to be converted from two to three rail ...... if/when the loco emerges, it will be an 0-4-2T or 0-6-0T, I haven't quite decided yet.

 

Modern technology has conspired to steal all tinkering time this evening: the new online passport renewal system ..... it is truly brilliant, in that it lets you register what you want on line, then, when you've paid, it gives you an e-form, which you have to .... er ..... print, fill-in, and post!!!

 

K

Edited March 5, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

Est il possiblement un arbre de buis sur la droite?

 

K

 

Non, ce n'est pas un arbre à feuilles persistantes!

[Northroader]

Only twenty? ETS chassis?

[Nearholmer]

Vrai. Et, il est trop grand.

 

Yes, it is an ETS chassis, but I don't know what from. I found it on e-bay at a "buy it now" price that was about one tenth the usual price, and took it on chance, not really knowing whether it would run, or not. My thinking was that it might prove a source of parts if it didn't. But, it does, very nicely indeed.

 

K

Edited March 6, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Superpower comes to Birlstone!

 

Two 9F, and a Prairie that is super in a different way visited today.

 

It is quite something to see an 0 scale 9F negotiating the 27" radius curves on the "hidden" part of the layout; a tribute to the skill of the designer, and the virtues of coarse standards.

 

Less said about my progress on platform building the better; playing trains always comes first! Grown-up Hornby Dublo Rools OK!

Edited March 7, 2017 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

There's a very pretty blue one of them on eBay right now. Eight hundred smackers? What am I doing looking at eBay?? Ah-ah...

Edited March 7, 2017 by Northroader

[Nearholmer]

Searching for Alan Partridge videos?

 

Sorry; couldn't resist.

 

K

[Edwardian]

Superpower comes to Birlstone!

 

Two 9F, and a Prairie that is super in a different way visited today.

 

It is quite something to see an 0 scale 9F negotiating the 27" radius curves on the "hidden" part of the layout; a tribute to the skill of the designer, and the virtues of coarse standards.

 

Less said about my progress on platform building the better; playing trains always comes first! Grown-up Hornby Dublo Rools OK!

 

Shots like these make me suspect that Coarse Standard O Gaugers are have far more fun than the rest of us.

[ThePurplePrimer]

There is something about this that I find really very appealing.

 

Can I ask what your plans are re ballasting - it looks like the track is laid onto cork and I am guessing that might be the finished effect ?

[Nearholmer]

Ah, ballast!

 

Model railways of the period that I'm attempting to evoke, up to the mid-1950s, even some very good ones, usually got by without any. But, some modellers were ballasting from the outset, back around 1910. So, what to do?

 

Current thinking, subject to the currents of whim, of course, is to ballast 'Paltry Circus' using chicken-grit (which was the typical choice of those who did), but not to ballast the rest. I tend to change my mind about track arrangements, so it would be as well to retain flexibility!

 

I now wish I'd painted the cork grey, but when I started I was thinking LBSCR, who used beach (shingle) as ballast, so deliberately left it brown.

 

K

[uax6]

The only full sized railway that I've ever come across that used shingle for ballast was the island line. Very odd it looked too. Do they still use it?

 

Andy G

[phil_sutters]

The only full sized railway that I've ever come across that used shingle for ballast was the island line. Very odd it looked too. Do they still use it?

 

Andy G

You might find that the East Quay Tramway, running eastwards out of Newhaven along the coast, was another one. It was primarily used to transport shingle from the beach, so it is likely that it had it for track ballast. What remains of it now is awash with shingle, but that is no real indicator. There is a photo on RMweb which shows it in Victorian times, but it is not very clear, so it is difficult to be sure what ballast it had. It is however an interesting photo for an other reason - Newhaven 1894 - rail gun 1.jpg

 

With regards to Island Line, this photo shows the track at Smallbrook Junction in May 2013. Although it is not very sharp, I think it shows shingle. The stone is too irregular in shape and colour for standard stone ballast.

Edited March 13, 2017 by phil_sutters

[brianusa]

To ballast or not with toy trains is always a quandary;  Traditionally not but with the advent of mote scale like locos and rolling stock, it has to be revisited, three rail notwithstanding.  I am not into the modern stuff really, concentrating on traditional Hornby  which must make me a traditionalist.  Cantaffordit Hall -  could never find it in the ABC's!

 

Brian.

[Nearholmer]

Phil

 

I think there must be a distinction between "a bit of track plonked down on a beach" (e.g. Newhaven EQT), and a railway ballasted with beach.

 

Well OT, but the LBSCR source of ballast was, of course, The Crumbles, at Eastbourne, which was, much later, home to the miniature electric tramway that is now at Seaton, in Devon. I remember an outing in Uncle Wilf's Dormobile, when we rode the Tramway in the morning, and in the afternoon went to Beachy Head, where there was a policeman on duty (on a horse, IIRC), who I was told was called Bob Copper, which, even at age c7, I knew was funny. As a Sussex chap, you will know what Bob Copper is really famous for, although that didn't register with me at the time, and I'm still not sure whether it really was him, or whether Uncle Wilf was pulling my leg!

 

Kevin

Edited March 13, 2017 by Nearholmer

[phil_sutters]

Phil

 

I think there must be a distinction between "a bit of track plonked down on a beach" (e.g. Newhaven EQT), and a railway ballasted with beach.

 

Well OT, but the LBSCR source of ballast was, of course, The Crumbles, at Eastbourne, which was, much later, home to the miniature electric tramway that is now at Seaton, in Devon. I remember an outing in Uncle Wilf's Dormobile, when we rode the Tramway in the morning, and in the afternoon went to Beachy Head, where there was a policeman on duty (on a horse, IIRC), who I was told was called Bob Copper, which, even at age c7, I knew was funny. As a Sussex chap, you will know what Bob Copper is really famous for, although that didn't register with me at the time, and I'm still not sure whether it really was him, or whether Uncle Wilf was pulling my leg!

 

Kevin

I take your point, Kevin. I have never got a grip,on what the Newhaven shingle was used for. Was it another source for ballast? How widely was the LBSCR shingle used - all the way to London?

I am not a Sussex chap. I only escaped from London, after 40+ years work in 2009. So the legend that was Bob Copper eludes me.

[petethemole]

A legend of the English traditional folk scene, it seems he was indeed a copper:  https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/apr/03/guardianobituaries.artsobituaries

[Nearholmer]

Singing, that's what he was known for https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7fI5-azAuc

 

Like you, I'm not totally sure about the original purpose of the EQT.

 

It might have been coastal defence, as in the sense of carrying material for groynes. Beach was sold widely as an aggregate for use in concrete making, so maybe that, although latterly the big sources were Hall & Co at The Crumbles and at Rye Harbour, and East Sussex Transport & Trading at Cuckmere Haven.

 

I don't think there was a concrete works at Newhaven selling products onwards, but there must have been one in connection with the harbour works, from the 1860s onwards, so that would be my best guess. EQT being used to collect aggregate for block- making, for harbour works.

 

There was also a trade in a certain type of large flint pebbles, blue boulders, from Sussex to The Potteries, where they were used somehow in either grinding clay or making glaze, and I think that applied on the west beach at Newhaven.

 

Kevin

[phil_sutters]

There was also a trade in a certain type of large flint pebbles, blue boulders, from Sussex to The Potteries, where they were used somehow in either grinding clay or making glaze, and I think that applied on the west beach at Newhaven.

 

Kevin

There certainly was a siding, off the long breakwater line, which ran directly to the edge of the shingle beach to the west of the breakwater. The lovely sandy West Beach, inside the breakwater, is still barricaded against public use, despite a court decision to grant it 'village green' status.

Edited March 14, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Nearholmer]

Pete - he was, but two things make me think that I might have been having my leg pulled: the date doesn't seem to fit; and, what I can find says that he was a DC in West Sussex, whereas Beachy Head is in East Sussex. However, I'm sure I heard someone say at a festival that he latterly served as a "special", while mainly working on his song-collecting. Kevin

[phil_sutters]

I don't think there was a concrete works at Newhaven selling products onwards, but there must have been one in connection with the harbour works, from the 1860s onwards, so that would be my best guess. EQT being used to collect aggregate for block- making, for harbour works.

 

There was also a trade in a certain type of large flint pebbles, blue boulders, from Sussex to The Potteries, where they were used somehow in either grinding clay or making glaze, and I think that applied on the west beach at Newhaven.

 

Kevin

The OS map of 1938, shows the EQT is quite extensive, running almost to the Bishopstone end of Seaford and back down to the East Pier, with several sidings off it. Paul O'Callaghan, now I have remembered to look at his book, says that the original purpose was to carry shingle around Newhaven to the West Quay area for use in work on the breakwater. The shingle on the east beach is a bit finer than that on the western beach. The harbour area had various changes to the basin itself so there seems to have been a fairly frequent demand for more aggregate. It's a bit ironic that the only freight coming into Newhaven now, by rail, is for Day's Aggregates depot on North Quay!

[Metropolitan H]

......................................There was also a trade in a certain type of large flint pebbles, blue boulders, from Sussex to The Potteries, where they were used somehow in either grinding clay or making glaze, and I think that applied on the west beach at Newhaven.

 

Kevin

As I understand it the ground "Flint" is a fine Silica, which becomes a constituent of the pottery glaze - especially if you want a good white glaze.

 

Think Cheddleton Flint Mill - now preserved by the National Trust - as a destination of the flint stones (pun not intended) for processing into powder form.

 

Going back to the use of "Beach" as ballast by the LB&SCR and other impercunious concerns "Sarf of the river" - wasn't that part of the reason for the 927 Sevenoaks derailment of SR loco A800 "River Cray"? - I know the locos got the blame but I understood the track wasn't as stable as it might have been - a problem with the rounded stones of Beach ballast which don't knit together like broken stone ballast.

 

Regards

CH

[Nearholmer]

I think you are right on all counts.

 

I'm supposed to be doing productive things here, and I'm now totally distracted into thinking about visiting Cheddleton, and another mill I want to go and look at, the one that supposedly inspired Tolkien, near Brum, as well as revisiting Newhaven, to look at where tramways aren't any more ........

 

K