Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[J. S. Bach]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Lionel Fastrack is THE carpet running track! The wide, robust plastic base provides stability AND keeps the fluff out of the gears and bearings!

True but the folk over on the OGR forum are consistently asking about ways to silence as they consider it quite a noise generator. Me, I like the sound of the metal wheels on the metal rails. Hey, real trains are definitely NOT quiet.

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

True but the folk over on the OGR forum are consistently asking about ways to silence as they consider it quite a noise generator. Me, I like the sound of the metal wheels on the metal rails. Hey, real trains are definitely NOT quiet.

 

Fastrack on a wooden base is pretty echo-ey and noisy, and it’s not a nice noise, what with the lack of underlay. Fastrack on carpet is quite quiet. I much prefer the sound of tubular track, for that sort of nostalgia; especially if you like the growl of open frame AC motors, and the smell of ozone and smoke fluid.. mind you, the big, die-cast bodies make a nice soundbox. 

[Metropolitan H]

Chaps,

 

Having met my target of having both the main circuits of my compact (11ft 6in x 7ft 6in - OO equivalent is 6.5ft x 4.25ft) layout laid onto carpet tiles and electrified at 00.10hrs yesterday (Monday 26 Oct 2020) after a long and disturbed gestation, I can report the following:

 

1 - Both "Grand-Childer-Beasts" (aged 6 and 4.5 years) are impressed and were very good while Grandad's trains were running. The favourite trains are ACE Trains "Mallard" in LNER pre Speed Record Blue with three Darstaed Gresley Teak coaches (actually an articulated pair and an open third) and ACE GWR "City of Truro" as running circa 1959 / 60 with a train of 3 x Darstaed GWR clerestory compartment coaches. These trains were not allowed off the railway!

 

2 - Although compact and only sensible for maximum train lengths of 3x bogie coaches and a "Mid" to "Pacific" sized loco, it works well for me and will be fine for my preferred "Metropolitan" theme - as well as play time for the bigger engines and European trains.

 

3 - The use of carpet tiles as track underlay / ballast works very well, as it stops the drumming noises, but being a bonded, man-made loop fibre construction doesn't shed loose fluffy bits.

 

4 - The working title for this layout is confirmed as "Gutter Lane" (EC2V 8AQ) about 7 mins walk SE from Moorgate Station. I'll leave you to find out the important office in the Lane - round the back of a very significant Guild's Hall.

 

There is a lot more to do but I will save that for a new topic heading - probably "Yet another Retro "O" gauge layout", when I find the Roundtuit.

 

The only down side to the last couple of days is that I now need to delve into the innards of my Lionel "Kinlet Hall" loco which went bang and expired with release of smoke and the ammeter proving that its needle will move above 1 amp!! Every other motive power unit ran well - including the Swiss (HAG) Re4/4 and its coaches which do sort of glide round the circuit.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Metropolitan H
Horrible mistake!!

[Nearholmer]

Is it:

 

a) the assay office; or,

 

b) the premises of The Gutter Press, from which vast amounts of scurrilous nonsense are disseminated every evening by trains serving all parts of the realm?
 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Metropolitan H]

Yes - a) The Assay Office. Surely the premises of the Gutter Press at the time of our trains was most probably "Fleet Street", till they moved to Wapping and other points to the east?

 

Apologies for the problem with the un-intended attachment.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nearholmer]

Very convenient station for the railwayac keen on adding to their library, or anyone who collects the well-known colour prints by F Moore.

 

 

[Donw]

My father worked in an office close to Moorgate station the area between it and the station was a bomb site it had not been cleared by the mid 60s so you could add some interesting scenic work. At one time there was a model shop nearby.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Through the TCS I learned some very sad news this morning: Alan Cliff, a truly important man in the world of old-fashioned 0 gauge has died. 

 

Alan, The Reverend Alan Cliff to give him his proper title, was one of the few who kept the flame burning through the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s, between the expiry of BL and Hornby and the "tinplate revival". I remember best his very long-running column 'The Chronicles of Lock's Sidings' in BRM - it was a quirky, story-based means of educating us all about the old British 0-gauge makers, using scenes set on his layout, and it introduced Jack the Station Cat who went on to star in his own series of children's books.

 

Let's all hope that Alan is resting in a place where all transportation is provided by battered old tinplate trains powered clockwork, steam, or ancient forms of electric motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Through the TCS I learned some very sad news this morning: Alan Cliff, a truly important man in the world of old-fashioned 0 gauge has died. 

 

Alan, The Reverend Alan Cliff to give him his proper title, was one of the few who kept the flame burning through the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s, between the expiry of BL and Hornby and the "tinplate revival". I remember best his very long-running column 'The Chronicles of Lock's Sidings' in BRM - it was a quirky, story-based means of educating us all about the old British 0-gauge makers, using scenes set on his layout, and it introduced Jack the Station Cat who went on to star in his own series of children's books.

 

Let's all hope that Alan is resting in a place where all transportation is provided by battered old tinplate trains powered clockwork, steam, or ancient forms of electric motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's sad news, Kevin, although he must have been getting on a bit. I never met Alan but I felt that I knew him through the "Chronicles".

 

May I suggest, respectfully, that you copy your post into the Obituaries forum in Modelling Musings & Miscellany?

 

Thanks.

[kernowtim]

Although I never had the privilege if meeting Rev. Cliff I did enjoy reading the chronicles of Lock's sidings, and am now the owner of a few of his O gauge models bought via WJ Vintage.

Rest In Peace..

[Donw]

Alan was a lovely chap. I had some contact with him as the Gazette editor and we spoke at Guildex.

He had a good knowledge of railways.

 

Don

[Metropolitan H]

I know I met Rev. Alan Cliff at least once and concur that he was a very pleasent and knowledgeable character. I too was regular reader of the "The chronicles of Lock's siding" A shame that he has now gone - no more "Jack the Station Cat" books to entertain the younger persons!

 

Regards

Chris H

Edited October 28, 2020 by Metropolitan H
correction of silly spelling error!

[Metropolitan H]

Chaps,

 

Having investigated the release of "Working fluid" (Smoke) from my Lionel "Kinlet Hall" in connection with a percusive noise event, I can report that the event was the expiry of the electrolytic (??) capacitor that was connected across the motor brush terminals - leaving the local interior of the loco festooned with what looked like finely shredded cigarette filter??

 

Removal of the dross and other components of the capacitor - see below - has restored the loco to health and I cannot detect any change in operation or interference levels??

The picture as displayed on my screen is about twice (and a bit) the original size the empty casing is about 1cm long.

 

I am wondering whether the cause of the failure might be use of a PWM controller, which works well but does result in the directional lighting LEDs flickering at a low light - uless you can turn the power "Full-On"?? Any one had any similar experiences??

 

While I was taking the above record shot I also took the following stills of tired but happy engines after the Childer-Beasts had gone home. No counselling of engines was required.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Chris H

Edited October 28, 2020 by Metropolitan H

[Nearholmer]

Progress indeed - its really good to see track and trains in running order.

 

Those capacitors are made of two foil electrodes, separated by "fag paper" impregnated with electrolyte, all wound tightly into a spiral. You could be right about incompatibility with PWM. Without a capacitor, you might be getting sparking at the brushes as it commutates, though.

[PatB]

33 minutes ago, Metropolitan H said:

Chaps,

 

Having investigated the release of "Working fluid" (Smoke) from my Lionel "Kinlet Hall" in connection with a percusive noise event, I can report that the event was the expiry of the electrolytic (??) capacitor that was connected across the motor brush terminals - leaving the local interior of the loco festooned with what looked likefinely shredded cigarette filter??

 

Removal of the dross and other components of the capacitor - see below - has restored the loco to health and I cannot detect any change in operation or interference levels??

The picture as displayed on my screen is about twice (and a bit) the original size the empty casing is about 1cm long.

 

I am wondering whether the cause of the failure might be use of a PWM controller, which works well but does result in the directional lighting LEDs flickering at a low light - uless you can turn the power "Full-On"?? Any one had any similar experiences??

 

While I was taking the above record shot I also took the following stills of tired but happy engines after the Childer-Beasts had gone home. No counselling of engines was required.

 

 

 

 

Regards

Chris H

Electrolytic caps tend to explode like that if subjected to AC voltages. An enjoyable prank, in 6th form Physics when covering things electrical, was to wire a suitable cap across the AC output of some unfortunate's benchtop power supply when they weren't paying attention, and wait for the bang and accompanying shower of electronic confetti when they switched it on. 

 

But I digress. Since modern 3-rail locos depend on the rectification of AC track voltage before it reaches the electrically  delicate bits, it might be worth checking that said rectification is still working as it should. 

[Nearholmer]

44 minutes ago, PatB said:

Since modern 3-rail locos depend on the rectification of AC track voltage before it reaches the electrically  delicate bits,

 

American ones do, until you take the rectifier out, which I think is what Chris did with his, but 3-rail trains for Britain and much of Europe have been very largely "straight DC" for many a long year, DC power supply to permanent magnet motors.

 

British Hornby* barely made any electric locos post WW2, and Bassett Lowke were already a mainly permanent magnet outfit before WW2 (they'd been trying to move the market that way since before WW1) - they did supply a few 20V wound-field motor locos post-WW2, presumably to people who operated mainly pre-WW2 Hornby, but they are pretty rare and I don't think they have an automatic reverser. All of the British "tinplate revival" locos are straight DC, except the very earliest Ace, which have a rectifier that can be switched in/out to allow use on pre-war Hornby AC layouts.

 

Some modern US locos are clever enough to be able to digest supplies of multiple kinds, AC, straight DC, or one of several carrier-type digital systems. They have a permanent magnet motor, but between that and the track are various bits of electronics that detect the incoming supply signal and adjust whatever else is in circuit. IIRC Lionel Lionchief will operate with eith DC or AC track supply (I used to run a Lionchief Hall from DC track supply), and MTH certainly will (as per my US Army 44 Tonner). 

 

*French Hornby made a lot of electric locos post-WW2, and I'm not certain when they went fully over to permanent magnet motors, but the really good locos that they, and JEP, made in the late 50s and early 60s certainly have PM motors.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Ben B]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Through the TCS I learned some very sad news this morning: Alan Cliff, a truly important man in the world of old-fashioned 0 gauge has died. 

 

Alan, The Reverend Alan Cliff to give him his proper title, was one of the few who kept the flame burning through the 1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s, between the expiry of BL and Hornby and the "tinplate revival". I remember best his very long-running column 'The Chronicles of Lock's Sidings' in BRM - it was a quirky, story-based means of educating us all about the old British 0-gauge makers, using scenes set on his layout, and it introduced Jack the Station Cat who went on to star in his own series of children's books.

 

Let's all hope that Alan is resting in a place where all transportation is provided by battered old tinplate trains powered clockwork, steam, or ancient forms of electric motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the first ever mags I bought was a BRM, and I loved the "Chronicles of Lock's Sidings".  10-year-old me wasn't sure what to make of the tone of the piece, and the story-like way of describing the trains, but even at that point I was fascinated by the 'proper' toy trains in the mag, and the articles became some of my favourite bits in the magazine educating me on some obscure models.

[Nearholmer]

Thinking about the importance of Lock’s Siding as an information source made me think of these two books, especially ‘Older Locomotives’.

 

 

There were a few sources around in the 1970s, but They tended to focus on very early, very exotic things and this book, published in 1970, was the one I bought, when it first appeared. Available pretty cheaply these days, and still a very good primer - all the basic facts and most of the really important models from a British perspective are inside (Lionel and Ives get two pages together, and there is nothing continental that wasn’t made for the british market!).

 

Until Mr Levy’s ‘Century of Model Trains’ this was it, none of the mega-detailed histories of individual makers.

 

It certainly planted a seed in my mind, even if it did take forty years to germinate!

[Compound2632]

George the Fifth in Great Western green! 

 

And one of those "Recent Locomotives" is still in production, although it has had several new blades and handles down the years.

[Nearholmer]

40 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

George the Fifth in Great Western green! 

The King wore all sorts of robes, not SR though I think.

 

The market for these was probably roughly that of a PlayStation these days, twelve-to-teenage boys. 
 

But, it was a slightly too good and expensive model to produce, I think, and the successor 4-4-0 in the form of Hornby No.2 and BL Duke of York were, in different ways, simpler, and freelance/generic.

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Those capacitors are made of two foil electrodes, separated by "fag paper" impregnated with electrolyte, all wound tightly into a spiral.

You should see what happens when a full-size one of those, on a real train, blows up...

[PatB]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Thinking about the importance of Lock’s Siding as an information source made me think of these two books, especially ‘Older Locomotives’.

 

 

There were a few sources around in the 1970s, but They tended to focus on very early, very exotic things and this book, published in 1970, was the one I bought, when it first appeared. Available pretty cheaply these days, and still a very good primer - all the basic facts and most of the really important models from a British perspective are inside (Lionel and Ives get two pages together, and there is nothing continental that wasn’t made for the british market!).

 

Until Mr Levy’s ‘Century of Model Trains’ this was it, none of the mega-detailed histories of individual makers.

 

It certainly planted a seed in my mind, even if it did take forty years to germinate!

Those books, along with the companion volume on die-cast vehicles, were regular library picks for me. I do seem to remember some others though. Possibly a couple of small volumes, rather more text heavy. I have a vague memory of one of them having a (possibly original catalogue or advert illustration) Trix Twin 0-4-0 on the cover. 

 

The late 70s Model and Miniature Railways part-work also had quite a high tinplate content, all of which I devoured after I obtained a full set at an event at Bishops Lydeard Station c1980. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by PatB

[Nearholmer]

I think Allen Levy was a part-author or consultant on that part-work.

 

These are probably the text heavy ones, which are a strange pair, because Hamilton Ellis translated Reder (and added odd remarks of his own!) and produced his own book nearly at the same time. Reder was a retired Nazi propagandist, and Hamilton Ellis a failed British minor spy, which is an interesting mix. I wasn’t aware of these two in the 1970s, only discovering them later.

 

The one with a Trix Twin loco on the front I don’t have, but I’ve read it and I think it might have been by Twining and is more of a ‘how to’ book than a history.

[Metropolitan H]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

You should see what happens when a full-size one of those, on a real train, blows up...

It was the oil-filled ones on LU equipments that got very messy when they leaked. I don't remember us having much in the way of big electrolytics, but there were a number of schemes for using them for energy storage - which is a bit like putting a large bomb under a car and hoping it doesn't get triggered?

 

Regards

Chris H

[Keith Addenbrooke]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I think Allen Levy was a part-author or consultant on that part-work.

 

These are probably the text heavy ones, which are a strange pair, because Hamilton Ellis translated Reder (and added odd remarks of his own!) and produced his own book nearly at the same time. Reder was a retired Nazi propagandist, and Hamilton Ellis a failed British minor spy, which is an interesting mix. I wasn’t aware of these two in the 1970s, only discovering them later.

 

The one with a Trix Twin loco on the front I don’t have, but I’ve read it and I think it might have been by Twining and is more of a ‘how to’ book than a history.

Hamilton Ellis - wasn’t he the same C. Hamilton Ellis also known as a painter of railways?  Name rang a bell.