Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Pacific231G]

On 13/02/2021 at 12:19, Metropolitan H said:

Mother had relations who lived in Burnham - and I think one of them worked at Highbridge Works - but I'm not sure of the details and now never will be.

 

however, I do know that when Mother's Mother died - circa 1928 (?) - Mother went to stay with said relations and got to ride in a steam wagon driven by an uncle, as part of the local carnival parade. I assume the sun shone in those days/

 

Regards

Chris

When I was pre-school, before he retired in the mid 1950s, my grandfather lived in Burnham and we used to go there for holidays. I can remember his dog, have absolutely no memories of the beach, but a wonderful store of memories of visiting his signalbox at Highbridge, riding up and down on the footplate between there and Basonbridge, "helping" to turn a loco on the turntable and drinking (probably just tasting) signalbox tea made with condensed milk. Who needed the beach?  We drove down in my father's car from Brum but, despite that, the odd thing is that I don't remember ever seeing the station at Burnham though I've been there since. 

[Donw]

45 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

When I was pre-school, before he retired in the mid 1950s, my grandfather lived in Burnham and we used to go there for holidays. I can remember his dog, have absolutely no memories of the beach, but a wonderful store of memories of visiting his signalbox at Highbridge, riding up and down on the footplate between there and Basonbridge, "helping" to turn a loco on the turntable and drinking (probably just tasting) signalbox tea made with condensed milk. Who needed the beach?  We drove down in my father's car from Brum but, despite that, the odd thing is that I don't remember ever seeing the station at Burnham though I've been there since. 

 

The station site is now mostly carpark and probably the road fom Highbridge  to the seafont (where said carpark is may use the old trackbed.

 

You may fine this interesting  

 

[34006]

8 hours ago, Donw said:

 

The station site is now mostly carpark and probably the road fom Highbridge  to the seafont (where said carpark is may use the old trackbed.

 

You may fine this interesting  

 

Hi,yes,the road is the old trackbed.I've seen a photo somewhere,probably in the "Then and Now" series.

 

atb

Phil

Edited March 10, 2021 by 34006

[Northroader]

The buffer stop has been kept as a memorial, but the rest....

[sleepyrider]

They did at least put an information board on the site:

[sleepyrider]

The signal box moved to Washford, don't know if it will get to stay there now the S and D stuff is being cleared out

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burnham-on-Sea_signal_box_at_Washford.jpg

[GRASinBothell]

Had a couple of busy days (unusual in this year of lockdown, I know!), so I didn't get around to it, but now, as promised/threatened, here is No 72, Fenchurch, in all her Stroudley glory:

 

 

And in close-up:

 

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any Brighton coaches, so I had to resort to some goods wagons, products of the nice Herr Bing. The Landau on the open carriage truck was acquired after I saw that Nearholmer had done that. Hmm... Must get myself a Brighton horse box to go with it!

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Always a pleasure to see Fenchurch.

 

Here she is looking a bit scruffy, just before the harbour company assets formally transferred to the SR.

 

 

And, back from Brighton after a smartening-up.

 

PS: just noticed that there is a full stop missing from the NHCo. livery, so I need to redo that. When the Bluebell painted the loco in this livery c1970, they lined it in red, but the one photo i can easily find shows no visible lining, and no number on the loco.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Metropolitan H]

19 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Always a pleasure to see Fenchurch.

 

Here she is looking a bit scruffy, just before the harbour company assets formally transferred to the SR.

 

 

And, back from Brighton after a smartening-up.

 

PS: just noticed that there is a full stop missing from the NHCo. livery, so I need to redo that. When the Bluebell painted the loco in this livery c1970, they lined it in red, but the one photo i can easily find shows no visible lining, and no number on the loco.

It might be that you could not see the red line as the B&W film was the older "Ortho" type which saw red as black. The common usage of "Panchromatic" B&W film was later than you might expect - and one of the reasons for official works photos being taken of locos specially painted in different shades of grey.

 

How is progress with the new "Mini" layout?

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nearholmer]

You could well be right about that, although the loco is looking very tired in the photo, so maybe the lining simply wore-off.

 

As regards the miniscule layout, laying track in the FY is the first item on my "hobby jobs" list, and now that home school stress has abated I should be able to get on with that. I was slightly hoping that a Narogg meeting might be planned for the Autumn, to act as a spur, but caution seems to have ruled that out, which is a pity.

[Metropolitan H]

Perhaps we will have to convene a local branch meeting of a sub-set of NAR0GG - for late September / early August to give us both some of the impetus required to continue progressing our layouts.

 

Talk soon.

 

Regards

Chris H

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

When the Bluebell painted the loco in this livery c1970

IIRC it was painted as NHCo on the right and Fenchurch on the left.

[Nearholmer]

You'll enjoy this, and its educational.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bassett+lowke&&view=detail&mid=A75DA33D45BF1E41E35CA75DA33D45BF1E41E35C&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dbassett%2Blowke%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You'll enjoy this, and its educational.

 

Nice shortie LNWR carriages but I did feel a bit for the Precursor Tank that was lacking a bit at the rear end!

 

And he's got one of those City of Birmingham Gas Department hopper wagons. I wouldn't mind a rake of those at 4 mm scale but I fear a fiendishly difficult etched brass kit would be the way to get there.

 

[Nearholmer]

He's got a very good collection there, real classics.

 

Couple of tiny errors in the voiceover though, I think: I'm fairly sure the 112 Tank was a post-WW1 introduction; and, Walker-Fenn wasn't "a London shop". Walker was Mr Walker of Walker & Holtzapffel, which was a shop, bur Mr Fenn (of Croydon) is a bit more of a mystery, believed to be the craftsman who made the mechanism, and possibly the person who devised it. But, I'm being picky; its a great little film.

 

Short Precursors are sort of considered a class in themselves among tin train fans. They're common in multiple liveries, and the accepted story seems to be that they were developed to work better on tightly-curved track than the "proper" ones, of which there was already a plentiful supply. Presumably people were using 1ft radius curves, and tail-wag on a 4-4-2T derailed the coaches, because tank engines with long overhang cause no trouble on 2ft radius. If Mr Carne passes by, he will doubtless be able to add more to the story.

[Mark Carne]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

He's got a very good collection there, real classics.

 

Couple of tiny errors in the voiceover though, I think: I'm fairly sure the 112 Tank was a post-WW1 introduction; and, Walker-Fenn wasn't "a London shop". Walker was Mr Walker of Walker & Holtzapffel, which was a shop, bur Mr Fenn (of Croydon) is a bit more of a mystery, believed to be the craftsman who made the mechanism, and possibly the person who devised it. But, I'm being picky; its a great little film.

 

Short Precursors are sort of considered a class in themselves among tin train fans. They're common in multiple liveries, and the accepted story seems to be that they were developed to work better on tightly-curved track than the "proper" ones, of which there was already a plentiful supply. Presumably people were using 1ft radius curves, and tail-wag on a 4-4-2T derailed the coaches, because tank engines with long overhang cause no trouble on 2ft radius. If Mr Carne passes by, he will doubtless be able to add more to the story.

Dragging me into the conversation? Thank you for the invite Kevin! :-)

 

Well, the B/L 112 tank was a post war (1921) introduction in O gauge, but it did appear pre 1914 in gauge 1 and 2, 1911 for steam, and 1912 for clockwork, so maybe the gentleman has that slightly confused. I have a bit of a "thing" for 112 tanks, having 7 O gauge and 6 gauge 1 examples! Probably the most interesting are the ones referred to in B/L collecting circles as the generic versions, in green livery, as in my photos, Actually, the example with the white/black/white lining is the pre grouping GWR version (don't laugh, you'll hurt its feelings, and the colour and livery detail are a match for the Bing for B/L O gauge GWR 2-4-2T Birdcage tank), and the white/black/gold lined example is the NER version, the white/black/gold lining matching Aerolite in the NRM at York. It's something I've been meaning to write an article about for the Bassett Lowke Society magazine for some time, but failing to do.

 

Short Precursor tanks, a great loco for collectors to obsess about, due to the large number of different liveries they did it in. LNWR, CR, MR, GNR, NBR, GWR, LMS, LNER and SR, and that might not be all of them. I've only got one, an SR example.

 

Mark

[Nearholmer]

Thanks Mark.

 

I'm perennially on the look-out for a 112 that takes my fancy, possibly a G1 one to run in the garden, because the bigger ones seem better proportioned to me, although the steam 0 one is another thought.

[Nearholmer]

This one's quite different from the previous, but roughly fits the date-line that my layout has become rooted in. 

 

It probably ought to be subtitled "Hubris", given what happened next to the British locomotive industry. In fact, the disaster was already unfolding as this was published. 

 

Anyway, back to the time when British Railways looked like Hornby Dublo layout ........

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Nearholmer

[F-UnitMad]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

back to the time when British Railways looked like Hornby Dublo layout ......

What a film!! Almost makes one proud to be British, dammit Carruthers!! The engines that are good for Britain are good for the Empire, too!! Just like British cars of the time, they might last a bit longer in warmer climates

Hands up, though - at 1:26 the train passes a pub with drinkers outside - hands up who thought of the "Pedant & Armchair" pub on a Chris Nevard layout??!! 

 

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

...given what happened next to the British locomotive industry. In fact, the disaster was already unfolding as this was published. 

It seems to have been the whole of British industry. As the late Colin Garratt* wrote about his experience as a kid at that time, it seemed like after the years of dirt & grime, "Britain was being tidied up, and for the most part, closed down."

 

*He went on to travel the world photographing the last working steam locomotives. Rather a lot of them were made in Britain.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, the reason I mentioned hubris was that it seems that most people in Britain really believed the upbeat, and frankly deluded, messages of films like that, and got a horribly nasty shock when the writing on the wall finally became clear.

 

An instance is the way the film talks about electrification, leaving the impression that it was a bang up-to-date British idea, whereas, for all sorts of economic rather than technical reasons, we almost completely missed-out on the first round of mainline electrification (3000 or 1500V dc or Single-phase, low frequency) in Britain, although we exported well in that phase, and were playing "follow the leader" (Alsacienne French engineers) with the second round at 25kV, single-phase, industrial frequency. And, our diesel loco industry was a complete mess, with far too many manufacturers, each fulfilling "penny packet" orders, and in one significant case (North British) failing miserably make the technical step-change necessary to get from steam to good-quality diesel engines.

 

If you look at motor cars, motor cycles, aircraft, and a host of other things, roughly the same was true, yet the nation seemed to believe it was really good at this stuff, and packed every edition of Meccano Magazine with articles which, if you were pretty much ignorant of everything that Jonnie Foreigner was up to, reinforced that view.

 

It was a long time ago, so why do I care? Because a significant number of older guys, and less well-informed younger guys, still, even now, seem to believe that we were somehow tricked out of our rightful position of pre-eminence in engineering matters by devious foreigners, and frame their thinking accordingly. To me, that period stands as an uncomfortable lesson in how not facing-up to cold hard facts, persisting with a delusion, makes a difficult situation (war-ravaged economy) worse.

 

But ...... I still love the railway aesthetic, and the "technical toys for boys" that it all gave rise to.

[GRASinBothell]

Well, there was a certain amount of trickery involved in the aircraft world, at least. Starfighter sales (and thus Lightning non-sales) were helped along with some serious bribery, I believe.

But the chief harm there was done by ineffectual management and political manipulation. Directing nationalized airlines to buy local resulted in those airlines knocking the product as hard as they could (to get additional subsidies as "compensation" for buying a lousy product), thus putting off other buyers, and usually involved tailoring the product to an extent that no one else would want them anyway.

And the less said about the Wilson government's wholesale cancellation of virtually every aircraft program, the better...

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Perhaps I'd better steer us out of the politico-economic cul-de-sac that I drove us down ..........

 

One positive outcome of viewing the diesel loco export drive film was confirmation that traditional livery National Benzole tank wagons were still around in the late 1950s (c9:35), which is good, because the only possibly-post-WW2 petrol tank wagon I have is an NB one, on which I painted the sole-bars red to look properly post-war, and I wasn't totally sure the livery really lasted that long.

 

Can anyone identify the bright blue tank wagon at 7:11?

Edited March 24, 2021 by Nearholmer

[brianusa]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

If you look at motor cars, motor cycles, aircraft, and a host of other things, roughly the same was true, yet the nation seemed to believe it was really good at this stuff, and packed every edition of Meccano Magazine with articles which, if you were pretty much ignorant of everything that Jonnie Foreigner was up to, reinforced that view.

 

It was a long time ago, so why do I care? Because a significant number of older guys, and less well-informed younger guys, still, even now, seem to believe that we were somehow tricked out of our rightful position of pre-eminence in engineering matters by devious foreigners, and frame their thinking accordingly. To me, that period stands as an uncomfortable lesson in how not facing-up to cold hard facts, persisting with a delusion, makes a difficult situation (war-ravaged economy) worse.

 

But ...... I still love the railway aesthetic, and the "technical toys for boys" that it all gave rise to.

 

Interesting post!  As I left the UK to seek my fortune as the last of the King class was being scrapped, I have scant knowledge of late post war affairs, other than what I've read or heard.  I know of the diesel debacle and the aero industry following its lead with aeroplanes that didn't really compete with Boeing and other industry leaders.  Some of course like the VC10 made it into airline service as did the Comet on a small scale, as did some diesels on the railway but nothing like GM or GE.  That would come at a later date!  Cars, even famous marques while quite suitable for UK roads, were no match for the US freeways of the fifties.

    Its a bit ironic that we discuss British failures  while happily playing with toy products of the era.

  Brian.

[Nearholmer]

Here’s a toy train.

 

 

[Donw]

When I was working in a development team, Marketing requested a new Cooker hood and a production price they thought reasonable. We gave some responses and produced a suggested mock up. Why can you not make one like NEFF and other German firms said Marketing We can we replied by not at your price. Oh we couldn't sell them at the price the Germans charge said Marketing. Well the Germans sell them we said. Ah but people will pay for German quality !

This to me summed up much of our troubles.

Of course on railways we had the problem of our small loading gauge which meant stuff designed for our home lines was not right for the big overseas markets.  

 

Back to toy trains now at least.

 

Don