Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Florence Locomotive Works]

On 09/08/2021 at 18:26, Nearholmer said:

Is Everclear a beverage for the seriously adicted, a floor cleaner, fuel for camping stoves ......... or all of those?

 

Over here "meths" fulfills those roles, and more.

 

 

Everclear's primary purpose is a beverage for the seriously addicted, and is also sold with homemade beer making kits. I used it in the mogul for a while as i thought it had better steaming qualities, but after some more experimentation it doesn't.

 

Meths fulfills the other purposes over here to.

 

[Nearholmer]

Ages since I posted anything about Paltry Circus. The last time was, I think, when Mr H came over and we ran mostly GWR things to timetable.

 

Well, I really appreciated the advantages of the auto-trailer, so decided to obtain one in 1950s livery. Here it is doing its stuff.

 

 

Its a genius piece of tin-work, because it is significantly under scale-length, but still includes all the relevant bits, without looking cramped. I’ve not got a drawing to compare it with, so haven’t worked-out yet how the trick has been pulled. 
 

It runs with the 57XX, because a 14XX would have been an extravagance, and might have caused me to build an ex-GWR BLT set in the Cotswolds, or West Devon, by accident.

 

My experiments to make ex-SR motor trains using magnetic-paper overlays on the ends of brake thirds didn’t work to my satisfaction, even our replacement printer doesn’t seem up to the job, so I might try spray painting onto the paper, to see if that works better.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 20/09/2021 at 12:10, Nearholmer said:

Ages since I posted anything about Paltry Circus. The last time was, I think, when Mr H came over and we ran mostly GWR things to timetable.

 

Well, I really appreciated the advantages of the auto-trailer, so decided to obtain one in 1950s livery. Here it is doing its stuff.

 

 

Its a genius piece of tin-work, because it is significantly under scale-length, but still includes all the relevant bits, without looking cramped. I’ve not got a drawing to compare it with, so haven’t worked-out yet how the trick has been pulled. 
 

It runs with the 57XX, because a 14XX would have been an extravagance, and might have caused me to build an ex-GWR BLT set in the Cotswolds, or West Devon, by accident.

 

My experiments to make ex-SR motor trains using magnetic-paper overlays on the ends of brake thirds didn’t work to my satisfaction, even our replacement printer doesn’t seem up to the job, so I might try spray painting onto the paper, to see if that works better.

A very nice photo! 

Creating well proportioned undersize rolling stock was an art form some manufacturers / designers were very good at.  If you have a full-length side-on photo I’m sure there’ll be someone who can see how it’s been done vs a drawing.

 

When I had a couple of OO autocoaches (the standard Hornby ones), I was always struck by how much longer they were than the 57’ coaches I had, which I assumed was because the Autocoach concept emerged from steam rail motors, which had to include room for an engine as well.  As an Autocoach it would give room for compression in a model, esp. as it trundles along behind or in front of a smaller tank engine.  The great thing about the one in your photo is how good it looks.

Reference photo: Autocoach, Siphon G, 3x 57’ coaches, all basic OO models.:

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[brianusa]

Multisizing has always been the realm of tinplate trains.  Lionel were past masters of the art until they were bitten by the scale bug a few years ago.  Hornby and others had their versions but they were too toylike if thats possible

     Brian.

[Nearholmer]

Alongside this auto-trailer, I'd nominate the BL "blood and custard" coaches for extreme, but somehow still convincing, compression, and the Carette 12-wheel LNWR dining carriage, which BL took-over the tooling for. The latter plays the clever trick of being ever-so-slightly longer than other coaches made at the same time, thereby conveying an impression of great length while still being way short of scale.

 

I've never been greatly taken by any of the English Hornby bogie coaches, except the second version of the Pullman and maybe the Wagon Lits; they seem to be not just short, but diminished overall. And, I can never really like printed silver windows.They let the better locos down.

 

This coach length thing creates quite a debate among coarse-scalers, with a fair few being truly unhappy about the progressive move to scale length, because it emphasises the sharpness of curves and the shortness of platforms - I'm not one to get too exercised by the topic, but I won't have scale 64ft coaches for those very reasons. 

 

[Nearholmer]

Here’s a shortage of coaches.

 

Bing to the left, BL using Carette tooling I think, to the right.

 

Nobody could accuse these of excessive accuracy; bogie coaches that are about the right length for six-wheelers.

 

 

 

 

[johnhutnick]

Can you please tell me the actual sides length of this significantly under scale auto-trailer?

[Northroader]

But, they do look very good, and I fancy run better than a six wheeler would, and I know your six wheelers are the dogs b******* when it comes to running. Last night, I spent a happy hour browsing the Raylo site, looking at shorty autocoaches and everything else. But, I mustn’t, I really mustn’t.

[Nearholmer]

Actually, the 6W run better, because those ‘shorties’ are showing their age (1920s) and need a bit of tweaking to sort out lopsidedness. The wheel-sets are a bit crude on Bing coaches too, the wheels aren’t firmly fixed to the axles, which seems a common thing with old stuff that was designed for tinplate track, sometimes causes exciting riding through ‘proper’ points. 
 

Ancient model railway mags contain articles describing how to convert these coaches to 6W, and sometimes amateur conversions done all those years ago still emerge. The BL ones in particular look very good done that way; the body, especially of the full-brake, is an excellent design.

[Metropolitan H]

I was just thinking about the possibility of modifying some of those B--L (Carette ?) LNER coaches into an articulated set - would still be a bit short, but would look good.

 

By the way the WJ Vintage / Raylo GWR Autocoches are 41cm over buffers - so they are about a scale 12ft short, but they still look very good. The AEC railcars are longer - nearer scale length - which can be noticeable on 27inch radius curves, but they are still some of my favourites.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Metropolitan H

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Metropolitan H said:

By the way the WJ Vintage / Raylo GWR Autocoches are 41cm over buffers - so they are about a scale 12ft short, but they still look very good.

 

The layman is unable to judge, since the photo @Nearholmer posted tantalises us with one end only.

[goldfish]

1 hour ago, Metropolitan H said:

By the way the WJ Vintage / Raylo GWR Autocoches are 41cm over buffers - so they are about a scale 12ft short, but they still look very good. The AEC railcars are longer - nearer scale length - which can be noticeable on 27inch radius curves, but they are still some of my favourites.

 

The WJ Vintage / Raylo GWR Autocoches appear to be based on GWR Drawing A27, the length of which is 59' 6" (over head stocks?). At a scale 58' 7" over buffers, they are roughly buffer length short of scale.

 

[Nearholmer]

‘Ere, you’re right!
 

167 is quite short in reality, so no wonder this looks convincing. Here’s a picture of the real thing.

 

 

And, the toy.

 

 

I reckon they’ve taken tiny slices out of each window and panel.

 

Knowing knext to knothing about the GWR, I thought they were all 70ft narrow boats on wheels.

 

Thankyou.

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Metropolitan H]

Well everyday is a learning opportunity and today has had two so far!

 

Like friend Nearholmer I had always thought the Autocoaches of that style were much longer. However, on reading further I note that my example is actually numbered 174 - to Diagram A28, so should be 62ft 8inch. So all a bit of a minefield - but I'm still very pleased with my 1420 loco and autocoach set.

 

Although I might yet renumber my 14xx, as 1466 which I saw running on the Wallingford Branch in April 1968 - but that was with a much later style of autocoach - No.238 of 1953 to Diagram A43, despite being in Brown & Cream livery.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Nearholmer]

Another picture of the real thing, which shows it well against a Pannier, and looks like a model railway.

 

 

Googling about, this particular car seems to have visited oodles of railways ........ it would be good to rendezvous with it some time.

[Lacathedrale]

I went to the Brighton Toy & Model Museum and thought this thread might appreciate a few pictures!

 

[Nearholmer]

You’ve certainly spoiled us there!

 

You’ve more or less given us ‘the height’ there, nearly all of it pre-dating Hornby Trains, so let no one tell us that model railways started with Hornby, or that there has been a straight trajectory from “early crude and inaccurate” to “modern refined and hi-fi”, because a lot of these show “the rapid attainment of a peak”.

 

Thank you.

[Annie]

Wow!  Thank you for these pictures William.  Miles better than modern plastic RTR in every way.

[Nearholmer]

Just noticed that W J B-L himself appears, in miniature. I’m fairly certain this is he, from a set of figures that also included George Bernard -Shaw, his mentor, IIRC.

 

In fact, I think I can see GBS too. I can’t remember who else was in the set.

 

[Squinting at this and other photos, I think we have Charlie Chaplin, Lloyd George, Amy Johnson, and A N Other, the man in an overcoat on the LHS here, who I can't place. Could it be Ramsay McDonald?]

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

I’m looking at the Bing gauge 1, now 100 years old, and comparable to a lot of recently produced items. Wonderful collection.

[Lacathedrale]

My personal fave is the Gauge 1 clockwork GCR 4-6-2T! What a cracker!

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

My personal fave is the Gauge 1 clockwork GCR 4-6-2T! What a cracker!

 

Hardly to be bettered by the forthcoming Sonic 00 RTR model? It certainly looks to have mass.

[Nearholmer]

You really need to attend a TCS meeting, ideally the summer exhibition, assuming it happens next year, because not only do you get to see these things, you get to see them running. This exhibit is sometimes present http://vintage-layouts.org.uk/sandy.html  If it is, the guys usually bring their very rare Gauge 2 locos as well, one of which is that GCR tank*. Winding-up is done with a "key" that resembles the starter crank-handle for a vintage car - the spring is so strong that the winding mechanism is geared and it takes a vast number of turns to charge the best up.

 

*Look through the photos on the "Gallery" tab on that page; there is a photo of it with the BL advert in MR&L magazine announcing its production.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Lacathedrale]

By the way I made a short video showing some more 3D views, mostly of the same cabinet and a few of the larger items there:

 

 

 

I went to the Beckenham & West Wickham MRC  meeting over lunch one day (working near Beckenham Jct at the Capita offices in Clockhouse) and couldn't believe the racket I heard, until I turned around and saw a huge vintage set. I didn't pay it much heed really, to my own loss - I left feeling that the scenic layouts there were missing something, and I'm sure if I'd given it the time of day I'd have found that je nais ses quoi in the tinplate area.

 

I'm currently building a Gauge 3 LBSCR Alantic designed and built in 1922 by Curly Lawrence, so I'm well into the vintage bracket if not in models, then model engineering.

[Nearholmer]

Back to auto coach 167, there is very good news here 

This is as near ‘local’ as a SG heritage railway gets to me, so time to pick a day!