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On 06/06/2020 at 14:21, tubs01 said:

Just the standard Hornby ones most likely. but i might see what else i can get. 

 

Those little Hornby coaches are nice. Ideal for small layouts. The only thing they could do with is make a break coach version of them, which would be easy to do.  

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I'm afraid to say that the Hornby coaches are really quite poor unless picked up for the absolute lowest of prices (I, personally, wouldn't pay more than a quid for one, or most likely just not buy it). A nicer result, and a very much more prototypical one, can be achieved with Ratio GWR 4-Wheeled coach kits or by chopping about the old Triang GWR Clerestory coaches.

 

The problems with the Hornby 4-Wheeler are numerous, but the main issues are the height being really much too tall, the style of beading being rather spurious and the compartments being of an unheard of size and number for a coach built with anything remotely resembling the beading on the sides.

 

The Ratio kits can be picked up quite inexpensively (generally less than a new Hornby 4-Wheeler), are not the most difficult to build and look that much better. Of course if budgets and abilities are greater than my own there are plenty of brass kits about for 4-wheelers.

 

One final mention is the Stroudley 4-Wheelers produced by Smallbrook Studios (similar to the old K's whitemetal ones, I believe, but cast in resin and therefore lighter) for somewhere in the region of £25 each - More expensive than Ratio and Hornby but cheaper than most of the brass kits that I know of. I think there are also a few 3D prints available.

 

Ultimately, it's up to anyone what they run on their layout, but I thought I'd advise some alternatives to the Hornby 4-wheelers for those who wish for something that bit more realistic. Even if you're after generic stock, the above examples give a much better basis than the Hornby coach. And brake coaches are available for all of them!

Edited by sem34090
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1 hour ago, sem34090 said:

I'm afraid to say that the Hornby coaches are really quite poor unless picked up for the absolute lowest of prices (I, personally, wouldn't pay more than a quid for one, or most likely just not buy it). A nicer result, and a very much more prototypical one, can be achieved with Ratio GWR 4-Wheeled coach kits or by chopping about the old Triang GWR Clerestory coaches.

 

The problems with the Hornby 4-Wheeler are numerous, but the main issues are the height being really much too tall, the style of beading being rather spurious and the compartments being of an unheard of size and number for a coach built with anything remotely resembling the beading on the sides.

 

The Ratio kits can be picked up quite inexpensively (generally less than a new Hornby 4-Wheeler), are not the most difficult to build and look that much better. Of course if budgets and abilities are greater than my own there are plenty of brass kits about for 4-wheelers.

 

One final mention is the Stroudley 4-Wheelers produced by Smallbrook Studios (similar to the old K's whitemetal ones, I believe, but cast in resin and therefore lighter) for somewhere in the region of £25 each - More expensive than Ratio and Hornby but cheaper than most of the brass kits that I know of. I think there are also a few 3D prints available.

 

Ultimately, it's up to anyone what they run on their layout, but I thought I'd advise some alternatives to the Hornby 4-wheelers for those who wish for something that bit more realistic. Even if you're after generic stock, the above examples give a much better basis than the Hornby coach. And brake coaches are available for all of them!

there is also going to be some 4 wheel coaches made by hattons that are somewhat generic 

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Yes, I'm afraid that those Hornby 4-wheel coaches are the Spawn of Satan and fit only for your recycling bin; it's not that they are not of a prototype, but they are unprotoypical in all the ways pointed out by Sem and betray a fundamental ignorance of how coaches of the period were built and thus appeared.

 

In contrast, Hattons are making great efforts to ensure that their 4-wheel coaches are prototypical, if not based on a particular prototype; which is perfect for freelancing. There are alternatives, as Sem mentioned.  The generic Triang clerestories are good mouldings.  Before the Hattons announcement, I chopped some up into (non-clerestory) 4-wheelers. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Yes, I'm afraid that those Hornby 4-wheel coaches are ... fit only for your recycling bin

 

Like the last two posters, I blanch in horror at the thought of these being used on a Model Railway. But don't throw them out, put them on you club's children's drive-a-train layout. With their variety of colours, they're just the thing to have hurtling round behind a Hornby Thomas or Percy at Mallard-excelling speed. Toys are what they are - let them fulfill their destiny, which is to be the next step up from Brio.

Edited by Compound2632
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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Like the last two posters, I blanch in horror at the thought of these being used on a Model Railway. But don't throw them out, put them on you club's children's drive-a-train layout. With their variety of colours, they're just the thing to have hurtling round behind a Hornby Thomas or Percy at Mallard-excelling speed. Toys are what they are - let them fulfill their destiny, which is to be the next step up from Brio.

 

Or you could cut-n-shut 2 together and mount it on some set-track sleepers,

replace the glazing with clear sheet (with some cracked, and some plated over),

weather heavily, and instant shunters bothy/stores/mess room/etc.

(and don't forget the chimney for the stove!)

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10 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

Or you could cut-n-shut 2 together and mount it on some set-track sleepers,

replace the glazing with clear sheet (with some cracked, and some plated over),

weather heavily, and instant shunters bothy/stores/mess room/etc.

(and don't forget the chimney for the stove!)

 

It would still fail to look anything like a disused carriage, on account of the fundamental wrongness of the panelling.

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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Like the last two posters, I blanch in horror at the thought of these being used on a Model Railway. But don't throw them out, put them on you club's children's drive-a-train layout. With their variety of colours, they're just the thing to have hurtling round behind a Hornby Thomas or Percy at Mallard-excelling speed. Toys are what they are - let them fulfill their destiny, which is to be the next step up from Brio.

 

Yes, but their little worlds are believeable. The limits are ones own imagination. A concept tI will explore on another thread in the future.

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One thing I can say is there have been thousands of delighted adults and children who have cherished these little Hornby 4 wheel coaches in the same way that we love these little Hornby 0-4-0's.

Edited by Mountain Goat
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1 hour ago, Mountain Goat said:

One thing I can say is there have been thousands of delighted adults and children who have cherished these little Hornby 4 wheel coaches in the same way that we love these little Hornby 0-4-0's.

Myself included.

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3 hours ago, Mountain Goat said:

One thing I can say is there have been thousands of delighted adults and children who have cherished these little Hornby 4 wheel coaches in the same way that we love these little Hornby 0-4-0's.

Absolutely, I still remember opening my first train set as a kid and the joy I got from it. It was a second hand country local set. A highland railway 0-4-0 and three neon orange 4 wheel coaches. That little pug will never be bashed into anything.

 

it still pains me that I only have 2 coaches left after my mum stood on one like Godzilla stomping around Tokyo. Of course it was my fault for leaving it out

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I recently rediscovered my original three GWR four-wheel coaches as well - I needed an extra set of coaches for my tiimetable and came across them. They do look slightly odd(!) coupled to a pair of Ratio 4-wheelers, but as with Adam's Pug, they're staying as they are!

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15 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Like the last two posters, I blanch in horror at the thought of these being used on a Model Railway. But don't throw them out, put them on you club's children's drive-a-train layout. With their variety of colours, they're just the thing to have hurtling round behind a Hornby Thomas or Percy at Mallard-excelling speed. Toys are what they are - let them fulfill their destiny, which is to be the next step up from Brio.

i mean in my opinion it doesn't matter what people run. if someone wants to run a Bachmann atlantic pulling a rake of Hornby 4 wheel coaches, who cares, after all, the hobby is about having fun

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There's a video here on someone trying to bash one into a OO9 coach.  Not super convincing as it ends up being too tall.  Further surgery to remove the top panel from above the doors, might produce a better result.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Adam FW said:

Absolutely, I still remember opening my first train set as a kid and the joy I got from it. It was a second hand country local set. A highland railway 0-4-0 and three neon orange 4 wheel coaches. That little pug will never be bashed into anything.

 

it still pains me that I only have 2 coaches left after my mum stood on one like Godzilla stomping around Tokyo. Of course it was my fault for leaving it out

 

12 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I recently rediscovered my original three GWR four-wheel coaches as well - I needed an extra set of coaches for my tiimetable and came across them. They do look slightly odd(!) coupled to a pair of Ratio 4-wheelers, but as with Adam's Pug, they're staying as they are!

 

Indeed. I have a similar connection to my old Triang Nellie, which I have repainted and given some minor mods to improve the aesthetics (a headlamp, a new whistle and proper circular spectacles) but I will never cut it up or full-on bash it. 
I do only have one of my four-wheelers left, as two of them were turned into a suburban coach. It's on an old Wrenn chassis to give it some weight and lower it to a more reasonable height.
And yes @RJS1977, they do look a bit odd next to a Ratio four-wheeler.

 

 

25 minutes ago, TonyMay said:

There's a video here on someone trying to bash one into a OO9 coach.  Not super convincing as it ends up being too tall.  Further surgery to remove the top panel from above the doors, might produce a better result.

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Mountain Goat said:

One thing I can say is there have been thousands of delighted adults and children who have cherished these little Hornby 4 wheel coaches in the same way that we love these little Hornby 0-4-0's.

They are certainly very good at toys, but unlike the Hornby 0-4-0s bear no relation to any prototype so aren't much good as kitbash fodder.

12 hours ago, tubs01 said:

i mean in my opinion it doesn't matter what people run. if someone wants to run a Bachmann atlantic pulling a rake of Hornby 4 wheel coaches, who cares, after all, the hobby is about having fun

Precisely - I don't think anyone was saying that it isn't. Certainly my intent was to point out that if one is striving for a halfway realistic model then the Hornby 4-Wheeler is no use and that better starting points may be found. But if you like them, then it's not my place to demand you not to use them - They are very robust, as suits a toy.

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Let me be clear: I didn't say these aren't excellent toys - just that no-one should be under the delusion that they are scale models that bear any resemblance to any prototype. 

Exactly - My point exactly.

5 hours ago, TonyMay said:

There's a video here on someone trying to bash one into a OO9 coach.  Not super convincing as it ends up being too tall.  Further surgery to remove the top panel from above the doors, might produce a better result.

 

 

As mentioned above, the coach still bears no resemblance to any prototype. Even in the weird and wonderful world of Narrow Gauge, where most things that modellers put down as impossible or fantasy seem to have happened, I highly doubt that one would find a coach that looks much like that.

4 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

 

 

Indeed. I have a similar connection to my old Triang Nellie, which I have repainted and given some minor mods to improve the aesthetics (a headlamp, a new whistle and proper circular spectacles) but I will never cut it up or full-on bash it. 
I do only have one of my four-wheelers left, as two of them were turned into a suburban coach. It's on an old Wrenn chassis to give it some weight and lower it to a more reasonable height.
And yes @RJS1977, they do look a bit odd next to a Ratio four-wheeler.

The fact they look so odd next to a Ratio 4-wheeler does, I feel, further underline how poor the Hornby ones are as a representation of a plausible coach.

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1 hour ago, sem34090 said:

They are certainly very good at toys, but unlike the Hornby 0-4-0s bear no relation to any prototype so aren't much good as kitbash fodder.

Precisely - I don't think anyone was saying that it isn't. Certainly my intent was to point out that if one is striving for a halfway realistic model then the Hornby 4-Wheeler is no use and that better starting points may be found. But if you like them, then it's not my place to demand you not to use them - They are very robust, as suits a toy.

Exactly - My point exactly.

As mentioned above, the coach still bears no resemblance to any prototype. Even in the weird and wonderful world of Narrow Gauge, where most things that modellers put down as impossible or fantasy seem to have happened, I highly doubt that one would find a coach that looks much like that.

The fact they look so odd next to a Ratio 4-wheeler does, I feel, further underline how poor the Hornby ones are as a representation of a plausible coach.

sorry if i came off rude. It just really annoys me when people take out the fun of the hobby. A lot of the time i just see people bash other modellers for not being 100% realistic, which i don't think is reasonable, as the hobby is supposed to be fun and for most modellers, especially younger ones such as myself, its hard to get all the high end realistic locos and coaches, because we cant really afford to pay £100 for an 0-4-0. sorry about my little tangent. 

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1 hour ago, tubs01 said:

sorry if i came off rude. It just really annoys me when people take out the fun of the hobby.

I agree.

Quote

A lot of the time i just see people bash other modellers for not being 100% realistic, which i don't think is reasonable, as the hobby is supposed to be fun

Again, I agree - I wasn't trying to bash anyone, more advise some alternatives for those seeking something which looks a bit more realistic!

Quote

and for most modellers, especially younger ones such as myself, its hard to get all the high end realistic locos and coaches, because we cant really afford to pay £100 for an 0-4-0. sorry about my little tangent. 

I sympathise entirely - I'm just about in the younger end of the hobby (18) so agree that some things are far too expensive these days.

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13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Let me be clear: I didn't say these aren't excellent toys - just that no-one should be under the delusion that they are scale models that bear any resemblance to any prototype. 

 

Ahh, but I'm aiming for a 1:1 scale model of the model railway that I wanted when I was ten, way back in the twentieth century. So for my purposes they are completely historically accurate! But maybe this counts as preservation, rather than modelling.

 

Since they are so good for beginners to chop up and experiment with, it's a pity that the overall dimensions are so off. Although of course, improving the dimensions can be one of the results of the chopping and experimenting. Several helpful people have posted guidelines for this.

 

The beading, hugeous though it is (something like a scale inch square in cross section) is a positive asset for people (like me) who are trying to get to grips with painting. My first attempt at painting a Ratio 4-wheeler was...... inauspicious, let's say.

 

But still and all, perhaps the world would be a much much better place if Hornby had attended closely to the Triang clerestories when they designed their imaginary 4-wheelers.

 

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I'm actually planning to take advantage of the unrealistic nature of the Hornby 4-wheelers - I have a couple of the track cleaning coach chassis (chassises? What even is the plural of "chassis?"), which give a much better ride height. The idea behind them is that they will belong to a fictional and somewhat impecunious pre-Grouping company that has simply been rebuilding the same old coaches since the 1850s. If anyone points out that they don't look like anything that really ran, I'll just nod thoughtfully and say, "Yes, the South London Railway's stock really was unique."

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