Show us your Pugbashes, Nellieboshes, Desmondifications, Jintysteins

[bobthemilk]

On 25/10/2021 at 08:26, Barclay said:

Hi Bob - I described it in a thread on the industrial section last year, so I have posted a link below which contains all the gory details. The ultimate kit basher of this casting was apparently pre-war modeller extraordinaire, the Rev. Edward Beal, who made all sorts of loco's. out of them.

 

Regards

 

Hi Barclay 

Many thanks but with my ten thumbs and aptitude for  making easy  things difficult that is something to aspire to ..................... : )

 

regards

 

Bob

On 25/10/2021 at 08:26, Barclay said:

 

 

 

[Corbs]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Toby's tramway is based upon the Wisbech and Upwell line. The body of one of the coaches survives (on a more conventional underframe) at Sheringham although for licencing reasons, they can't make use of this fact.

 

There is also the story of "the original Thomas", now at the Nene Valley Railway, which is too long to repeat here. 

AFAIK its on the original underframe
https://www.nnrailway.co.uk/portfolio-items/wisbech-upwell-tramcar-no-7/

[RJS1977]

10 hours ago, HonestTom said:

At the risk of being "that guy," the incident Awdry himself cited for this story was at Lynn in 1952 and involved an Ivatt Class 4.

It can be difficult to work out exactly what was going on with particular prototypes. The book The Island of Sodor gives backstories for all the regular characters, and a lot of fans have a tendency to take this as absolute gospel for what Awdry had in mind. Personally, I think that in the early books, he intended the characters to be freelance, types of locomotive rather than specific classes. Edward was meant to be a Victorian 4-4-0, Gordon a more modern Pacific, Thomas a station pilot etc. It's worth pointing out that while Reginald Payne illustrated Thomas as an E2, Dalby went back and changed some of the details to make the character look more generic.

 

From Henry the Green Engine onwards, characters are (mostly) based on specific prototypes, and so the backstories to explain the appearance of some of the older characters are frankly pretty tortuous. Percy is a hotchpotch of different parts, Gordon and Henry were both experimental prototypes, etc. I suspect with Daisy that he started out with the model and wrote it into his stories - Duck has a similar backstory, originating as an off-the-shelf Gaiety pannier bought as a spare engine.

 

From what I've heard, Dalby was quite 'lazy' when it came to illustrating the locomotives and there were frequent arguments between Awdry and Dalby regarding the quality of the illustrations. Things came to a head, when Awdry described Dalby's Percy as "a green caterpillar with red stripes" (an insult which was to be used by Thomas later in the series), at which point Dalby resigned. Awdry then set about writing stories like "Henry the Green Engine" to try to correct Dalby's errors. (Awdry also received letters from children who had noticed errors in Dalby's drawings. Rather than write back saying the artist had made a mistake, Awdry would make up a short explanation e.g. Henry had square buffers in one picture because he had damaged his own and the Fat Controller only had spares for Gordon.) I think the error of Thomas's buffer beams being at different heights originated with Dalby. Despite later being 'corrected' by Thomas being damaged and having to be rebuilt, the error persisted in the TV series and the Bachmann model. 

[HonestTom]

12 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

From what I've heard, Dalby was quite 'lazy' when it came to illustrating the locomotives and there were frequent arguments between Awdry and Dalby regarding the quality of the illustrations. Things came to a head, when Awdry described Dalby's Percy as "a green caterpillar with red stripes" (an insult which was to be used by Thomas later in the series), at which point Dalby resigned. Awdry then set about writing stories like "Henry the Green Engine" to try to correct Dalby's errors. (Awdry also received letters from children who had noticed errors in Dalby's drawings. Rather than write back saying the artist had made a mistake, Awdry would make up a short explanation e.g. Henry had square buffers in one picture because he had damaged his own and the Fat Controller only had spares for Gordon.) I think the error of Thomas's buffer beams being at different heights originated with Dalby. Despite later being 'corrected' by Thomas being damaged and having to be rebuilt, the error persisted in the TV series and the Bachmann model. 

Yeah, that's true. The TV series seems to have gone with the Dalby version of the characters, hence also Percy having that weird wrap-around saddle tank. There are several illustrations where the engines look distinctly wonky, and I myself remember as a kid seeing the illustration of Henry in Tank Engine Thomas Again and being absolutely certain that it was actually Gordon.

 

In fairness to Dalby, I think he was on the whole a good children's illustrator (I think Percy the Small Engine in particular has some absolutely beautiful pictures and his faces are fantastically expressive), but he wasn't technical in the way that Reginald Payne, John Kenney or Peter Edwards were. He spoke of being frustrated by Awdry's need for consistency and technical accuracy, while he (Dalby) was primarily concerned with creating an image appealing to children.

[Corbs]

We have gone a worrying distance down this page and I am concerned at the lack of pugs being bashed.

 

An idea I have been kicking around for a while is a Pugbash competition. The 009 society ran one a few years ago using the Dapol pug as the base model.

 

Would anyone be up for doing something similar? I would be up for putting something together and trying to arrange a suitable prize for the winner, just canvassing opinions.

[rockershovel]

Thomas is a classic example. The iconic blue livery, red lining and running gear and number 1 are derived from the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T fleet operated by British Sugar, which Awdry was familiar with (they being based locally). 

 

However these locos are outside cylinder. Dalby could have copied from the prototypes, but didn't. 

 

 

[TurboSnail]

20 minutes ago, Corbs said:

We have gone a worrying distance down this page and I am concerned at the lack of pugs being bashed.

 

An idea I have been kicking around for a while is a Pugbash competition. The 009 society ran one a few years ago using the Dapol pug as the base model.

 

Sounds like a nice idea - just pugs, or other bases as well? E.g. Terriers, R1s, Electrotrens etc. May not be able to participate myself due to far too many ongoing projects... May also be something RMweb is interested in sponsoring/promoting, as per the old cakebox challenges.

[AlfaZagato]

I'd be game for a Pug-off.

 

How would prize support go for international, though?  I live stateside.   While I hold few expectations on winning, I've noticed most contests exclude foreign contestants.

[Corbs]

I would like to set it so everyone uses the same base model. If it was a physical prize I guess it could be shipped internationally, I have a few ideas on that front.

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

4 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

I'd be game for a Pug-off.

As would I if I had a spare Pug.

Or the spare cash for one.

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, Corbs said:

I would like to set it so everyone uses the same base model. If it was a physical prize I guess it could be shipped internationally, I have a few ideas on that front.

 

 

That makes sense, but not the Dapol (later Hornby) L&Y pug, which is not always available cheaply (£60+ for Hornby's latest-but-absolutely-not-changed-in-the-slightest-from-the-Dapol version)

 

Perhaps agree upon the Hornby Caledonian "pug" 0-4-0 as the starting point, as that can be had relatively cheaply being available in such huge numbers?

 

I'd be up for that challenge!!

 

Steve S

 

UPDATE

 

Me and my big mouth! "Caley" pugs seem to be anything but cheap on eBay whereas it seems that Hornby's "Holden" 0-4-0s (in their technicolour dreamcoat of liveries) seem to be available far cheaper! It's a tricky one! @Corbs?!

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by SteveyDee68
Quick eBay research...

[Sophia NSE]

1 hour ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

As would I if I had a spare Pug.

Or the spare cash for one.

I could afford a plastic kit or two

[Adam FW]

8 hours ago, Corbs said:

We have gone a worrying distance down this page and I am concerned at the lack of pugs being bashed.

 

An idea I have been kicking around for a while is a Pugbash competition. The 009 society ran one a few years ago using the Dapol pug as the base model.

 

Would anyone be up for doing something similar? I would be up for putting something together and trying to arrange a suitable prize for the winner, just canvassing opinions.

I’d certainly be up for taking part, I’ve had a plan for a Hornby 0-4-0 on the back burner for quite a while now and a Santa’s express loco just waiting for its date with a hacksaw.

 

I agree with others, probably best to stick with the Hornby 0-4-0 starter locos, don’t think it matters whether it’s a pug a holden or one of the others as it will add to the variety and help keep it as an accessible challenge

[Corbs]

The one the 009 society used was the plastic kit L&Y pug but I am thinking along similar lines as the smokey joe or holden type, I'd like to restrict it to one of the two so that if we do a second one we can use a different model. Will have a chat with some people and see if I can drum up some support.

[J-Mo Arts]

I'd be up for a bashing competition! The kit pug would be the most useful for me to bash into a loco for my railway however I'm game for anything

[John Besley]

8 hours ago, J-Mo Arts said:

I'd be up for a bashing competition! The kit pug would be the most useful for me to bash into a loco for my railway however I'm game for anything

Can there be a Kit based pug kit comp as well as a powered version?

[John Besley]

Does this qualify as an R1 bash... all that I used was the chassis, everything else is plasticard around a Lego superstructure....

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by John Besley
.

[Mountain Goat]

On 27/10/2021 at 12:21, Corbs said:

We have gone a worrying distance down this page and I am concerned at the lack of pugs being bashed.

 

An idea I have been kicking around for a while is a Pugbash competition. The 009 society ran one a few years ago using the Dapol pug as the base model.

 

Would anyone be up for doing something similar? I would be up for putting something together and trying to arrange a suitable prize for the winner, just canvassing opinions.

 

Yes. 

 

I think a bash of any of the Smokey Joe or Holden or varients from Hornby that used the same or similar chassis like the class 06 etc.  There were many varients. Would we include the Triang versions as well? 

 

BUT I DO HAVE AN IDEA!

 

How about bashing any 00 or H0 gauge 0-4-0?  Or shall we stick to the various Hornby designs that ran on the same chassis as Smokey Joe (With or without outside cylinders). 

 

Can we also have the freedom to bash in different scales like 0-16.5, 0n30, 0e, 009, H0e etc?

 If we can demonstrate we have started out using a large portion of a Hornby 0-4-0? And what about the later Triang versions (Which were continued by Hornby up until 1977) which share the same wheelbase and con rods and later versions shared the same motors as the early versions that  Hornby made (E.g. the early GWR 101 Holden models)?

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Mountain Goat

[Corbs]

I think for it to be a 'competition' everyone needs the same base model, otherwise it's just this thread again, I think it's more fun to have a few constraints but I agree we should not be limited on scales.
I was having a look and Caley Pugs can be had for less than £20 so it's quite a low barrier to entry.
I did think that using the static pug kit might be a bit too close to the 009 society one so I am erring towards doing the Caley Pug (plus it's iconic). If it's a success we can try using other base models.

Early days yet but I'll try and put something together.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Corbs

[Corbs]

2 hours ago, John Besley said:

Does this qualify as an R1 bash... all that I used was the chassis, everything else is plasticard around a Lego superstructure....

 

 

 

That looks great! Am intrigued about your lego base.

[John Besley]

6 hours ago, Corbs said:

 

That looks great! Am intrigued about your lego base.

 

The basic body was built up useing a lego block to give some squareness to it and strength... the aur tank is the centre from a printer roll and pipework is copper wire, the seat is one of my traction engine castings

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by John Besley

[RedGemAlchemist]

6 hours ago, John Besley said:

 

The basic body was built up useing a lego block to give some squareness to it and strength... the aur tank is the centre from a printer roll and pipework is copper wire, the seat is one of my traction engine castings

 

 

 

Ingenious solution, John!

[AlfaZagato]

Legos are an unsung hero to many modeling problems.   As a basic engineering tool, they achieve results modelers would often dream, with less effort.    Shame both the cost, and the fact imitation products are tangibly worse.

[robert17649]

I once entered a competition in which I made a water crane from a Lego brick and a biro tube I was impressed but the judging team called it a kit and disqualified me, maybe the lego brick was too regular!

[John Besley]

11 hours ago, robert17649 said:

I once entered a competition in which I made a water crane from a Lego brick and a biro tube I was impressed but the judging team called it a kit and disqualified me, maybe the lego brick was too regular!

What were you supposed to do, manufacture all the parts from their raw components ....