Legomanbiffo earth movers fitting questions

[Revolution Mike B]

Have you left the motor in its original mounting?

[campbellad123]

Have you left the motor in its original mounting?

No, it was removed, and now sits on the fuel tank block.

 

However, on this model,it had a bass reflex in the fuel tank, so luckily it was a usable thickness for the motor to sit on that. Aslong as the motor has enough room to rotate then it will be good enough.

[Albie the plumber]

Done it ! finally   

 

Stripped it down last night , cable tied the chassis block to a piece of 2"x1" timber to stop it breaking in half ! 

I took a couple more mill off it with a junior hacksaw and file ( as Ken said about 7mm )

Araldited the speaker in .

Wires from pick ups ,motor and speaker are run alongside one side of the chassis block using first, double

sided tape then covered over with black insulation tape .

Wires from aftermarket (Stickswipe ) lights are run along the other side in the same fashion .

 

They are then hard wired to the decoder ( formerly an 8 pin with harness ) which lies flat at the No2 end .

the joined wires are insulated with heatshrink and the wires and decoder are held in place with a strap of 

masking tape .

It all fitted like a dream ! 

Hit the F1 button and wow !  no cone slap underneath the bodyshell , just pure Growler ! 

 

However, it  does leave anyone who has a fleet of 37's in a bit of a dilemma 

Now that we have a near perfect sounding 37, it make all the others seem tinny by comparison !

I ask myself , do I really want to do the same with the other eleven ?  

 

That's for another day but thanks to all who have given advice and help over these pages , couldn't have done it without you !

 

Albie 

[tractor_37260]

Well done Albie....yes it sounds awesome and worth the effort ...assume your using Bif's WD file ? It makes the most of the EM2.....

Yes it does make earlier versions, especially factory sound fitted 37s very limp and tinny....nearly finished my 2nd - double headed 37s with EM2's......can't wait !!!!

 

Ken

[Revolution Mike B]

Nice one Albie!

 

Totally agree - the only other thing I've heard that comes anywhere near the 37 is a Deltic, an possibly Bif's Valenta engine HST......everything else sounds woeful.

[campbellad123]

Great. Glad you got it sorted. Now, go and thrash it on your layout.

[Albie the plumber]

Thanks Guys !

 

Yes , those Bif WD sounds are simply the best !  

I've another 4 Growlers to fit with sound in due course so at least one of them will be another WD version .

 

Might need some ear defenders if planning to double head  Ken !

I remember the Port Talbot to Llanwern triple headers running through Newport , What a sight !

We can now recreate the sound but we might fall out with the neighbours in the process .

 

Albie.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Albie the plumber

[tractor_37260]

Thanks Guys !

 

Yes , those Bif WD sounds are simply the best !

I've another 4 Growlers to fit with sound in due course so at least one of them will be another WD version .

 

Might need some ear defenders if planning to double head Ken !

I remember the Port Talbot to Llanwern triple headers running through Newport , What a sight !

We can now recreate the sound but we might fall out with the neighbours in the process .

 

Albie.

Ah triple header using 3 EM2's now THAT would be something Ravenscraig steel trains come to mind recall being blown away when standing on the platform at Miliken Park as they blasted past at max power with a fully loaded wagon rake..days gone by....

As for neighbours live and let live...they can get some ear plugs.....lol

Edited January 23, 2018 by tractor_37260

[campbellad123]

How on earth did an EM2 fit in a class 25? Same idea as the 37?

Cheers

[charliepetty]

How on earth did an EM2 fit in a class 25? Same idea as the 37?

Cheers

Determination is required.    Charlie.

[campbellad123]

Will you have 1 to hear at Model Rail Scotland Charlie? Ta

[charliepetty]

Will you have 1 to hear at Model Rail Scotland Charlie? Ta

We have a Sutton Loco Works 24 !!!

[tractor_37260]

We have a Sutton Loco Works 24 !!!

 

And it sounds very good indeed with an EM2 fitted.................

[D400]

Afternoon all,

 

After various experiments I thought I'd share my EM2 fit for a class 37. The chassis is milled out at the non fan (B) end of the locomotive and the PCB totally replaced with a custom PCB that I have developed myself. This PCB fits in the original Bachmann speaker location under the fan and adds additional functions AUX3 and AUX4 which are used to control the tail lights. In addition both cab lights are now on separate functions to enable directional cab lighting. A MTC 21 Loksound v4 simply plugs straight into the new PCB. Advantages over the ESU board are there are additional connection points for pickups from both bogies, plus 4 common feed connections to serve both ends of the loco as well as the cab lighting PCBs. Two surface mount resistors are also provided on AUX1 and AUX2  for the cab lighting, on the Bachmann 37 the other resistors are located on the nose PCBs The board is 35mm x 21.5mm to provide a snug fit in it's new location.

 

If anyone is interested I can provide these at cost, though I must stress I cannot provide any cover for any damage to chips caused by using them - use at own risk!

 

If anyone is interested drop me a PM. 

 

Cheers,

Bruce  

[Revolution Mike B]

Afternoon all,

 

After various experiments I thought I'd share my EM2 fit for a class 37. The chassis is milled out at the non fan (B) end of the locomotive and the PCB totally replaced with a custom PCB that I have developed myself. This PCB fits in the original Bachmann speaker location under the fan and adds additional functions AUX3 and AUX4 which are used to control the tail lights. In addition both cab lights are now on separate functions to enable directional cab lighting. A MTC 21 Loksound v4 simply plugs straight into the new PCB. Advantages over the ESU board are there are additional connection points for pickups from both bogies, plus 4 common feed connections to serve both ends of the loco as well as the cab lighting PCBs. Two surface mount resistors are also provided on AUX1 and AUX2  for the cab lighting, on the Bachmann 37 the other resistors are located on the nose PCBs The board is 35mm x 21.5mm to provide a snug fit in it's new location.

 

If anyone is interested I can provide these at cost, though I must stress I cannot provide any cover for any damage to chips caused by using them - use at own risk!

 

If anyone is interested drop me a PM. 

 

Cheers,

Bruce  

 

Nice one Bruce! Looks very factory fitted.

[Albie the plumber]

Certainly a lot neater than hard wiring it ! 

[Bondy34]

Hello all

 

I have read this topic with great interest. I am planning on installing an em2 speaker in a Deltic, and hopefully have the use of a friends milling machine.

 

I would also like to install an em2 speaker in my Dapol class 68, but unsure how to best go forward. It looks like the best area is where they have installed some space for a small speaker. I do feel a complete rewire will have to be done.

 

Apart from Steve, has anyone completed an installation and have any photos?

 

Regards

 

Iain

[Foden]

Finally got my bum in gear and got round to taking the brave pills. One Class 37 stripped, and chassis milled out to a depth of 7mm. I've chosen to mill out the factory speaker end of the chassis and mount the em2 at that end, just after the securing point for the cab lights PCB.

 

Photos of the work so far:

 

 

 

The milling has been measured such as the speaker is a tight interference fit, although once I'm happy that the speaker profile doesn't need trimming to allow the body to go on unhindered, it'll be glued in also, probably with araldite. I've also milled out a small recess behind the speaker for a strip of copper clad to solder the track feeds to, and I also intend to run the majority of the wires under the chassis for tidiness much in the same way Bruce has above, and also to avoid vibration from the wires.

 

I'm now a little stumped as to how the wiring works and would appreciate some advice. I'll be using the ESU 21pin adapter board to replace the factory PCB, as shown below.

 

 

I'm assuming:

 

TRKL - Track Left (pickup)

TRKR - Track right (pickup)

MOT1 - Motor Live
MOT2 - Motor Negative

FL - Front Lights

RL - Rear Lights

 

AUX1&2 &U+ I have no idea about.

The instructions that came with are in German, and my German is sadly lacking!

 

Would it be possible to take this opportunity to wire up the lights so that the front and rear lights are available to be illuminated individually, so the rear lights are extinguished when running with a train, and it's also possible to run in reverse with the marker lights illuminated at the wrong end, such as prototypical depot running for example. Or could this simply be achieved with function mapping CVs anyway?

Edited July 21, 2018 by Foden

[Albie the plumber]

Finally got my bum in gear and got round to taking the brave pills. One Class 37 stripped, and chassis milled out to a depth of 7mm. I've chosen to mill out the factory speaker end of the chassis and mount the em2 at that end, just after the securing point for the cab lights PCB.

 

Photos of the work so far:

 

 

 

 

The milling has been measured such as the speaker is a tight interference fit, although once I'm happy that the speaker profile doesn't need trimming to allow the body to go on unhindered, it'll be glued in also, probably with araldite. I've also milled out a small recess behind the speaker for a strip of copper clad to solder the track feeds to, and I also intend to run the majority of the wires under the chassis for tidiness much in the same way Bruce has above, and also to avoid vibration from the wires.

 

I'm now a little stumped as to how the wiring works and would appreciate some advice. I'll be using the ESU 21pin adapter board to replace the factory PCB, as shown below.

 

 

I'm assuming:

 

TRKL - Track Left (pickup)

TRKR - Track right (pickup)

MOT1 - Motor Live

MOT2 - Motor Negative

FL - Front Lights

RL - Rear Lights

 

AUX1&2 &U+ I have no idea about.

 

The instructions that came with are in German, and my German is sadly lacking!

 

Would it be possible to take this opportunity to wire up the lights so that the front and rear lights are available to be illuminated individually, so the rear lights are extinguished when running with a train, and it's also possible to run in reverse with the marker lights illuminated at the wrong end, such as prototypical depot running for example. Or could this simply be achieved with function mapping CVs anyway?

 

Hi Foden 

 

Nice job with the milling !

 

I used one of those 21 pin adapter boards on one of my 37's which was originally equipped with an 8 pin board .

Black and red wires go to the pick ups , orange and grey go to the motor .Diagrams found elsewhere will usually specify Left /right pick up and left/right of motor .

 

All the other wires i.e. green , yellow , white, blue and purple ( Purple if its a Loksound ) are for the lighting or other functions .

So , five spare wires and six to connect up 

That's because the blue wire is the common positive to all lights .

I used Stickwsipe lights from Ebay which were colour coded so wiring it up was easy , however the Bachmann wiring is differently coloured and you will need to 

find out which is the common positive . that's what the blue wire is .

You can do that with a smoke alarm battery and wires from it . Positive /negative are clearly marked . the wires from the battery are then used to touch the small copper 

from the lighting board to find out what is what .

 

The only thing I can't tell you is whether or not the lights now need resistors now that the P.C. board has been discarded . 

I'm sure someone here will be able to advise you before you take the plunge , so hold fire on the lights until you get the info  .

 

Albie 

[Foden]

Hi Foden 

 

Nice job with the milling !

 

I used one of those 21 pin adapter boards on one of my 37's which was originally equipped with an 8 pin board .

Black and red wires go to the pick ups , orange and grey go to the motor .Diagrams found elsewhere will usually specify Left /right pick up and left/right of motor .

 

All the other wires i.e. green , yellow , white, blue and purple ( Purple if its a Loksound ) are for the lighting or other functions .

So , five spare wires and six to connect up 

That's because the blue wire is the common positive to all lights .

I used Stickwsipe lights from Ebay which were colour coded so wiring it up was easy , however the Bachmann wiring is differently coloured and you will need to 

find out which is the common positive . that's what the blue wire is .

You can do that with a smoke alarm battery and wires from it . Positive /negative are clearly marked . the wires from the battery are then used to touch the small copper 

from the lighting board to find out what is what .

 

The only thing I can't tell you is whether or not the lights now need resistors now that the P.C. board has been discarded . 

I'm sure someone here will be able to advise you before you take the plunge , so hold fire on the lights until you get the info  .

 

Albie 

 

Thankyou Albie.

 

This was the first use of my milling machine, and the first time ever doing this kind of metalwork, so I was quite happy with how neat the results worked out. In the process I've learnt alot about small project milling and what end mills to use and what speed to mill at, which will make the many future projects easier.

 

I suspected the LEDs would need resistors, looking at scoobyra's class 47 project earlier in the thread it looks like small resistors have been soldered onto the copper clad for the lights, hopefully he'd be so kind to let me know what he used if he spots this post. 

[tractor_37260]

Finally got my bum in gear and got round to taking the brave pills. One Class 37 stripped, and chassis milled out to a depth of 7mm. I've chosen to mill out the factory speaker end of the chassis and mount the em2 at that end, just after the securing point for the cab lights PCB.

 

Photos of the work so far:

 

 

 

 

The milling has been measured such as the speaker is a tight interference fit, although once I'm happy that the speaker profile doesn't need trimming to allow the body to go on unhindered, it'll be glued in also, probably with araldite. I've also milled out a small recess behind the speaker for a strip of copper clad to solder the track feeds to, and I also intend to run the majority of the wires under the chassis for tidiness much in the same way Bruce has above, and also to avoid vibration from the wires.

 

I'm now a little stumped as to how the wiring works and would appreciate some advice. I'll be using the ESU 21pin adapter board to replace the factory PCB, as shown below.

 

 

I'm assuming:

 

TRKL - Track Left (pickup)

TRKR - Track right (pickup)

MOT1 - Motor Live

MOT2 - Motor Negative

FL - Front Lights

RL - Rear Lights

 

AUX1&2 &U+ I have no idea about.

 

The instructions that came with are in German, and my German is sadly lacking!

 

Would it be possible to take this opportunity to wire up the lights so that the front and rear lights are available to be illuminated individually, so the rear lights are extinguished when running with a train, and it's also possible to run in reverse with the marker lights illuminated at the wrong end, such as prototypical depot running for example. Or could this simply be achieved with function mapping CVs anyway?

 

Hi Matt

 

The 3 U+ tabs are common positive (Blue), connect to the wires from the center contacts at the nose ends.

Aux 1 2 3 4 could be used for Tail lights and Cab lights, each will require an in-line resistor (or) if your good with a soldering iron SMD resistors can be fitted directly to the two small pads on the rear of the 51968 board for Aux 1 & 2 - remove the wires at the board edges and re-solder to the larger pads at the right of the two smaller pads.(Do this ONLY if your fitting SMD resistors directly on the board) Same applies to the FL RL White/Yellow wires)

Suggested resistor values, which will also help dim the lights to a more prototypical look.

FL & RL  each 680ohms 

Aux 1 & 2 Tail lights each 1Kohm

Aux 3 & 4 Cab lights each 1Kohm  these will require in-line resistors as there's no facility on the board.

 

Once the above wiring changes are completed, you can then configure the lighting to suit your requirements via CV mapping.

 

HTH

Ken

Edited July 23, 2018 by tractor_37260

[Foden]

Hi Matt

 

The 3 U+ tabs are common positive (Blue), connect to the wires from the center contacts at the nose ends.

Aux 1 2 3 4 could be used for Tail lights and Cab lights, each will require an in-line resistor (or) if your good with a soldering iron SMD resistors can be fitted directly to the two small pads on the rear of the 51968 board for Aux 1 & 2 - remove the wires at the board edges and re-solder to the larger pads at the right of the two smaller pads.(Do this ONLY if your fitting SMD resistors directly on the board) Same applies to the FL RL White/Yellow wires)

Suggested resistor values, which will also help dim the lights to a more prototypical look.

FL & RL  each 680ohms 

Aux 1 & 2 Tail lights each 1Kohm

Aux 3 & 4 Cab lights each 1Kohm  these will require in-line resistors as there's no facility on the board.

 

Once the above wiring changes are completed, you can then configure the lighting to suit your requirements via CV mapping.

 

HTH

Ken

 

What luck Ken, I'd literally just started a new thread in DCC help about this thinking it'd be the better place for it, and then you come along at the same time and pretty much answer all my questions!

 

So if I've understood this correct, the new configuration would mean:

 

FL - #1 end Forward lights

FR - #2 end Forward lights

AUX1 - #1 end tail lights

AUX2 - #2 end tail lights

AUX3 - #1 end cab lights

AUX4 - #2 end cab lights

 

The 3 common positives would have 2 leading to the centre of the three tabs on the cl37 nose connector, where the third would split to the upper circuit boards for the cab lights.

 

If using the fine SMD resistors then I remove the wiring on the relevant AUX tab, solder the SMD to the 2 small tabs, and then the wire back on to the larger tab on the inner of the board

 

If not able to pull of such fine soldering, then standard silicone resistors soldered inline further up the wiring?

 

Thanks so much Ken! 

 

Regarding the resistors, would 1/4w be sufficient for both the 680ohm and 1kohm ratings?

Edited July 23, 2018 by Foden

[tractor_37260]

What luck Ken, I'd literally just started a new thread in DCC help about this thinking it'd be the better place for it, and then you come along at the same time and pretty much answer all my questions!

 

So if I've understood this correct, the new configuration would mean:

 

FL - #1 end Forward lights

FR - #2 end Forward lights

AUX1 - #1 end tail lights

AUX2 - #2 end tail lights

AUX3 - #1 end cab lights

AUX4 - #2 end cab lights

 

>> Yep that's it 

 

The 3 common positives would have 2 leading to the centre of the three tabs on the cl37 nose connector, where the third would split to the upper circuit boards for the cab lights.

 

>> You don't have to use all 3 U+ tabs, as long as all the common + wires are linked together,  1 from the nose center contact wire at each end, one from each cab light positive+ wire

 

 

If using the fine SMD resistors then I remove the wiring on the relevant AUX tab, solder the SMD to the 2 small tabs, and then the wire back on to the larger tab on the inner of the board

>> Correct

 

If not able to pull of such fine soldering, then standard silicone resistors soldered inline further up the wiring?

>> Yes and probably easier than using SMD resistors, depends on your soldering skills

 

The speaker wires can be removed carefully from the decoder (ensure you DON'T bridge the small tabs in doing so or you will short the decoder) and attach them to the tabs on the 51968 board - maybe safer to leave the wires attached at the decoder and extend them if necessary at the speaker end.

 

Assuming it's a fairly new Lok 4 you have, it will power FL RL Aux 1 2 3 & 4 using the 51968 board.

 

Photo shows Bach 47 with similar mods - on test - at the time -  awaiting a 47 sound file coming from Bif  

 

 

[Foden]

Fine work there, I’ll probably tackle a 47 next, but I think I’ll do something different with that. I’ll probably go down the route of a smaller em1 and a sugar cube if I can get the resistances to work out. I feel the 47 needs a little more of the higher end ‘chop’ rather than the bassy clout of the 37, but that’s all a matter of what’s right to one’s ear of course.

 

Regarding the cutting of the decoder speaker wires I was thinking more of ease of removal of the decoder without having to unclip any further wires from the speaker. I’d thought that simply soldering the speaker to the board’s connectors, and then cutting off the wires and insulating them on the decoder it’d work that way, no?

 

I’m pretty sure my v4 is a ‘newer’ one, it was purchased off Biff maybe 18 months ago in this example. If it’s an older V4 would there be power issues for all six functions then? Is there a workaround if so?

[charliepetty]

Fine work there, I’ll probably tackle a 47 next, but I think I’ll do something different with that. I’ll probably go down the route of a smaller em1 and a sugar cube if I can get the resistances to work out. I feel the 47 needs a little more of the higher end ‘chop’ rather than the bassy clout of the 37, but that’s all a matter of what’s right to one’s ear of course.

 

Regarding the cutting of the decoder speaker wires I was thinking more of ease of removal of the decoder without having to unclip any further wires from the speaker. I’d thought that simply soldering the speaker to the board’s connectors, and then cutting off the wires and insulating them on the decoder it’d work that way, no?

 

I’m pretty sure my v4 is a ‘newer’ one, it was purchased off Biff maybe 18 months ago in this example. If it’s an older V4 would there be power issues for all six functions then? Is there a workaround if so?

I would'nt.  Get it reblown to something else and get a new Mid Norfolk 47 which is far better than the file you have.    Charlie