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Legomanbiffo earth movers fitting questions


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What luck Ken, I'd literally just started a new thread in DCC help about this thinking it'd be the better place for it, and then you come along at the same time and pretty much answer all my questions!

 

So if I've understood this correct, the new configuration would mean:

 

FL - #1 end Forward lights

FR - #2 end Forward lights

AUX1 - #1 end tail lights

AUX2 - #2 end tail lights

AUX3 - #1 end cab lights

AUX4 - #2 end cab lights

 

>> Yep that's it 

 

The 3 common positives would have 2 leading to the centre of the three tabs on the cl37 nose connector, where the third would split to the upper circuit boards for the cab lights.

 

>> You don't have to use all 3 U+ tabs, as long as all the common + wires are linked together,  1 from the nose center contact wire at each end, one from each cab light positive+ wire

 

 

If using the fine SMD resistors then I remove the wiring on the relevant AUX tab, solder the SMD to the 2 small tabs, and then the wire back on to the larger tab on the inner of the board

>> Correct

 

If not able to pull of such fine soldering, then standard silicone resistors soldered inline further up the wiring?

>> Yes and probably easier than using SMD resistors, depends on your soldering skills

 

The speaker wires can be removed carefully from the decoder (ensure you DON'T bridge the small tabs in doing so or you will short the decoder) and attach them to the tabs on the 51968 board - maybe safer to leave the wires attached at the decoder and extend them if necessary at the speaker end.

 

Assuming it's a fairly new Lok 4 you have, it will power FL RL Aux 1 2 3 & 4 using the 51968 board.

 

Photo shows Bach 47 with similar mods - on test - at the time -  awaiting a 47 sound file coming from Bif  

 

 

 

 

Hi Ken ,

I've learnt a shedload tonight too ...so thanks

Foden, I hope you're better at soldering than I .

I find trying to solder to a good standard akin to trying to make a swiss watch while wearing boxing gloves ! :O  

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Fine work there, I’ll probably tackle a 47 next, but I think I’ll do something different with that. I’ll probably go down the route of a smaller em1 and a sugar cube if I can get the resistances to work out. I feel the 47 needs a little more of the higher end ‘chop’ rather than the bassy clout of the 37, but that’s all a matter of what’s right to one’s ear of course.

 

>> It was a lot of work fitting an EM2 in the 47 I'd agree the EM1 with a sugar cube should give it more "top end" the EM2 suits the 37 much better

 

Regarding the cutting of the decoder speaker wires I was thinking more of ease of removal of the decoder without having to unclip any further wires from the speaker. I’d thought that simply soldering the speaker to the board’s connectors, and then cutting off the wires and insulating them on the decoder it’d work that way, no?the

>> Yes that would work

 

I’m pretty sure my v4 is a ‘newer’ one, it was purchased off Biff maybe 18 months ago in this example. If it’s an older V4 would there be power issues for all six functions then? Is there a workaround if so?

>> The decoder you have should work fine...

Yes 1/4w resistors...

 

For a 47 I'd also recommend Bif's Mid Norfolk sound file.

Edited by tractor_37260
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I would'nt. Get it reblown to something else and get a new Mid Norfolk 47 which is far better than the file you have. Charlie

You wouldn’t?

 

Are you referring to the speaker arrangement for the 47? The two 47s I have are AFAIK Bifs latest 47 sound files.

 

I’m still working on the 37 at present, it’s not the latest 37 project (the one with the wheel slip function), but the earlier 37/0 I think it’s the west highland one, still a fine sound file in my opinion.

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>> The decoder you have should work fine...

Yes 1/4w resistors...

For a 47 I'd also recommend Bif's Mid Norfolk sound file.

Thanks for all your help Ken, very much appreciated indeed

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Hi Ken ,

I've learnt a shedload tonight too ...so thanks

Foden, I hope you're better at soldering than I .

I find trying to solder to a good standard akin to trying to make a swiss watch while wearing boxing gloves ! :O

It’s not the best but I’ve come a long way since the first time I picked up an iron.

 

The best thing I did was to get a smaller tipped 25w iron for intricate work and a magnifying glass stand to assist. I also tin all my joints first now which I never used to.

 

It’s passable, and functional. And the body will eventually hide any horror scenes as long as it works ha!

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You wouldn’t?

 

Are you referring to the speaker arrangement for the 47? The two 47s I have are AFAIK Bifs latest 47 sound files.

 

I’m still working on the 37 at present, it’s not the latest 37 project (the one with the wheel slip function), but the earlier 37/0 I think it’s the west highland one, still a fine sound file in my opinion.

Current ESU decoder yes, older on then No.   Charlie

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What about the Locoman 8f?

 

it can be done in the tender, just ....

 

Lugs off the EM2, remove the tender weight etc and cut away a lot of the lower part of the coal space

 

DSC_0038.JPG.e6558f480ec15e49dbabb72b911c7795.JPG

 

the fake coal load will go back in though covering the speaker. Be careful if you add more coal - don't get glue in the speaker!

 

DSC_0040.JPG.6d68a9fdb372cd1e1407e9c865219161.JPG

 

I stuck everything down with black tac adding a thin bead all the way round the lower edge of the tender top to prevent vibrations as much as possible. 

 

lead added down the sides and under the coal load to compensate for the lack of standard weight.

 

The bass makes the tender jump on the track at high volumes!

 

oh and my home made two pin connector twixt loco and tender using 0.1" DIL headers 🙂

 

DSC_0041.JPG.6b63628e741cc3c0e36a35d1a9dd7f76.JPG

 

 

Edited by RedgateModels
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Finally got my bum in gear and got round to taking the brave pills. One Class 37 stripped, and chassis milled out to a depth of 7mm. I've chosen to mill out the factory speaker end of the chassis and mount the em2 at that end, just after the securing point for the cab lights PCB.

 

Photos of the work so far:

 

IMG_3549_Small.jpg

 

IMG_3550_Small.jpg

 

IMG_3551_Small.jpg

 

The milling has been measured such as the speaker is a tight interference fit, although once I'm happy that the speaker profile doesn't need trimming to allow the body to go on unhindered, it'll be glued in also, probably with araldite. I've also milled out a small recess behind the speaker for a strip of copper clad to solder the track feeds to, and I also intend to run the majority of the wires under the chassis for tidiness much in the same way Bruce has above, and also to avoid vibration from the wires.

 

I'm now a little stumped as to how the wiring works and would appreciate some advice. I'll be using the ESU 21pin adapter board to replace the factory PCB, as shown below.

 

IMG_3547_Small.jpg

 

I'm assuming:

 

TRKL - Track Left (pickup)

TRKR - Track right (pickup)

MOT1 - Motor Live

MOT2 - Motor Negative

FL - Front Lights

RL - Rear Lights

 

AUX1&2 &U+ I have no idea about.

 

The instructions that came with are in German, and my German is sadly lacking!

 

Would it be possible to take this opportunity to wire up the lights so that the front and rear lights are available to be illuminated individually, so the rear lights are extinguished when running with a train, and it's also possible to run in reverse with the marker lights illuminated at the wrong end, such as prototypical depot running for example. Or could this simply be achieved with function mapping CVs anyway?

Hello Foden,

That's a very neat milling job. 

What machine did you use for the job?

Bob

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Hello Bob,

 

The milling machine is a Proxxon MF70. It's neither the biggest or most powerful machine on the market, accepting a maximum mill shank of 3.2mm (although in reality 3mm is the largest size mill you'll get that's commonly available). It's probably more suited to smaller more intricate work, but having said that it's comfortable, you just have to work within the machine's capabilities.

 

I'd practised on various offcuts of mild steel and found that the best end mill to use was Proxxon's own 3mm tungsten carbide mills running at around 3/4 speed. These are a 2 flute design. Internet research will tell you that for steel 4 flute mills are better, but in my experience this wasn't the case, maybe it was the quality of the mills I was using? I don't know, but the tungsten 2 flute worked the best for me, by a decent margin.

 

I'd cut at stages of 2mm depth at a time four times (the last cut being 1mm deep). You soon get a 'feel' for how quickly to feed the material in based on how the macine sounds and the resistance to the milling. I would say in total it took me around 60 minutes of milling, but I'd spread this over a few evenings. I couldn't do too much at once as even though the mill is in my garage, it's not the quietest thing in the world when milling!

 

It'd almost certainly be much quicker with a bigger machine ofcourse, and I'd toyed with the idea of buying the larger FF230 mill, which has collets for 6-10mm which I suspect would easily more than half the time it takes to mill out the material, but then that mill was 3 times the price of the MF70. If I complete the project and get the bug for this, I may sell it and buy the larger mill as potentially there are a lot of candidates to be upgraded to EM2 treatment, but we'll see  :devil:

 

IMG_3559.jpg

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Thanks for that comprehensive explanation.

I had looked at the MF 70 but wondered whether it would be up to the job. Your explanation hasn't made up my mind but it's a long way towards it. 

I too have a fair few locos that would benefit from the treatment but my quandary is whether it would be cheaper in the long run to pay someone to do it rather than pay for a machine that I haven't really got room for.

The jury is still out.

Regards,

Bob

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It's a decent bit of kit, pretty good build quality, and decent after sales and parts availability in the UK through Axminster (who I bought it off direct at Warley in a bit of a deal).

 

In the interest of fairness I must add that I'd noticed a couple of times the motor, or milling head (top part basically, forgive the terminology!) had started to drop below what I set it at. This was in spite of using the screw in the side to secure any change in height. I noticed this on the first 2mm pass, and it'd resulted in a drop of around 3/4mm by the time I'd noticed. No great issue on the first pass, but given how thin the chassis becomes on one side when removing 7mm of metal, this could be quite a cock up when down near the required depth. I countered this by cutting 1" timber battens to a specified size, placing them at the back of the mill where the plastic runners that protect the spindle are, and lowering the 'head' down onto them. This cured any drop, and resulted at the end with a nice uniform depth. In fairness, this was my first time using the machine, and it may have just been I was feeding the material in too enthusiastically at the time, but nevertheless, it did drop.

 

I might also add, that on this project the supplied step clamps were not of a suitable height to be able to clamp the chassis to the bench (another nod to the fact that work of this nature is probably not what this particular mill is aimed at), so I rigged up my own heath robinson clamps with longer m6 bolts, and some drilled out metal brackets to suit the job. This worked, and held the chassis in place, but it was a bit of a faff gettiing it on and off the table to inspect the work.

 

I've since purchased a Proxxon 24260 vice which is designed for the MF70 table. It's a small vice but opens upto 30mm, perfect for securing 00 scale chassis infact! Knowing what I know now, I'd wholly suggest anyone buying this mill for this work to do so also, it makes clamping up and removing the piece a breeze by comparison. (Just need to remember to remeasure my wooden blocks now due to the extra height!)

Edited by Foden
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Thanks for that comprehensive explanation.

I had looked at the MF 70 but wondered whether it would be up to the job. Your explanation hasn't made up my mind but it's a long way towards it. 

I too have a fair few locos that would benefit from the treatment but my quandary is whether it would be cheaper in the long run to pay someone to do it rather than pay for a machine that I haven't really got room for.

The jury is still out.

Regards,

Bob

 

I also looked into getting some chassis done in a local machine shop, to keep the cost down, getting a quantity of chassis done at the same time would keep the costs down - once the machine is set up they can rattle them out........... in the end I did it the hard way............good bench vice/files/hacksaw/drills ....curses etc etc  

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It's a quandary. Can you offset the cost of the machinery? Or if you go the manual route, can you be bothered to do the graft each time, bearing in mind you will need a decent vice, files etc as tractor alludes to.

 

My last and only light engineering works near me charges for each setting.. £5 to look at it, £5 to put it on the machine, £5 for x1 x cut, etc,, it mounts up. I use them, but I don't have much choice. But it becomes a pain when a simple turning/cut job gets to £45 plus vat.

 

WRT to model stuff, I reckon it would be worth it, but it is a heck of a laying on of cash. hmm.

Tenner for a chassis, and you'd have queues. But then you wouldn't want to be messing around prototyping!

 

A thought; a dimensional database of mazak infected models, cnc on demand out of steel?

 

 

Bernie

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It's a quandary. Can you offset the cost of the machinery? Or if you go the manual route, can you be bothered to do the graft each time, bearing in mind you will need a decent vice, files etc as tractor alludes to.

 

My last and only light engineering works near me charges for each setting.. £5 to look at it, £5 to put it on the machine, £5 for x1 x cut, etc,, it mounts up. I use them, but I don't have much choice. But it becomes a pain when a simple turning/cut job gets to £45 plus vat.

 

WRT to model stuff, I reckon it would be worth it, but it is a heck of a laying on of cash. hmm.

Tenner for a chassis, and you'd have queues. But then you wouldn't want to be messing around prototyping!

 

A thought; a dimensional database of mazak infected models, cnc on demand out of steel?

 

 

Bernie

What a cracking idea.

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What a cracking idea.

Is there anyone who could provide a service?

 

Who hopefully already knows what is required for a range of classes to fit an EM2.

Edited by RBAGE
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Guys, I'm based in the north of Scotland, near Elgin. I've a toolmaker's Bridgeport mill in the workshop and don't mind doing bits and bobs for "beer money", if anyone up this way wants a chassis milling out.

You mark it out, I'll mill it to your marks!

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Guys, I'm based in the north of Scotland, near Elgin. I've a toolmaker's Bridgeport mill in the workshop and don't mind doing bits and bobs for "beer money", if anyone up this way wants a chassis milling out.

You mark it out, I'll mill it to your marks!

 

I might take you up on your very kind offer at some point later this year.   :drink_mini:

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  • 9 months later...

Hi Folks 

A slightly old thread I know but I've only now tackled a Bachmann 47 with an EM2 

The speaker is centrally mounted and as is always the case , the PC board is duly binned .

So will use an ESU 51968 board to hard wire .

I've no problem with the wires for motor and pick ups ,but then I noticed that the 47's lighting units have 4 wires and not 3 wires as on the '37 .

The colours are Blue, Orange, Yellow and Green .

Can I assume the blue to be common positive ? is there a separate wire for each the twin headcode lights ?

 

Thought I would ask the question before attaching the wires from my smoke alarm battery as the last time I tried that, my class 25 headcode lights popped ! :blink:

 

Many Thanks

 

Albie  

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On 24/07/2018 at 22:13, Finsbury said:

A thought; a dimensional database of mazak infected models, cnc on demand out of steel?

 

How about 3D scanning some good bare chassis, mazak or otherwise, so patterns are available when needed? 

 

For one-offs they could be metal 3D prints, until enough of the same one are needed for it to be worth a run on a CNC.

Shapeways advertise 3D printing steel and bronze, among other things. All bronze could be rather nice!

 

Small 3D scanners are readily available, or it can be done with software only and a lot! of good high resolution photographs.

eg. https://alicevision.github.io/ or https://demuc.de/colmap/ (for two free ones, there are many others).

 

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17 hours ago, Albie the plumber said:

Hi Folks 

A slightly old thread I know but I've only now tackled a Bachmann 47 with an EM2 

The speaker is centrally mounted and as is always the case , the PC board is duly binned .

So will use an ESU 51968 board to hard wire .

I've no problem with the wires for motor and pick ups ,but then I noticed that the 47's lighting units have 4 wires and not 3 wires as on the '37 .

The colours are Blue, Orange, Yellow and Green .

Can I assume the blue to be common positive ? is there a separate wire for each the twin headcode lights ?

 

Thought I would ask the question before attaching the wires from my smoke alarm battery as the last time I tried that, my class 25 headcode lights popped ! :blink:

 

Many Thanks

 

Albie  

 

Hi Albie

 

The Bachmann 47 has dual common return wires, 1 for the tails, and 1 for the markers/headlight  - not figured out why yet, hence 4 instead of 3 wires.  I just joined the Blue and Green + common wires together and it all worked fine using  the 51968 board.

HTH

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Ken !

How goes it ?

Many thanks for that , will give it a go .

Had to go for the EM2 option despite all the faffing around with a 2 part chassis :D

Biffs Mid Norfolk 47 is the business !

 

I now use the ESU decoder tester with a speaker of choice wired to it and placed under an empty bodyshell to see what its like before

getting the hacksaw out .

Saves disappointment !

 

Kind Regards ,

 

Albie 

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5 hours ago, Albie the plumber said:

 

I now use the ESU decoder tester with a speaker of choice wired to it and placed under an empty bodyshell to see what its like before

getting the hacksaw out .

Saves disappointment !

Great idea!

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