Legomanbiffo earth movers fitting questions

[tractor_37260]

12 hours ago, Albie the plumber said:

Hi Ken !

How goes it ?

Many thanks for that , will give it a go .

Had to go for the EM2 option despite all the faffing around with a 2 part chassis 

Biffs Mid Norfolk 47 is the business !

 

I now use the ESU decoder tester with a speaker of choice wired to it and placed under an empty bodyshell to see what its like before

getting the hacksaw out .

Saves disappointment !

 

Kind Regards ,

 

Albie 

 

Hi Albie/all

                  To be honest, I found the EM2/ Mid Norfolk 47 combination rather disappointing, and lacking in the "top end". It was also a lot of work to get the EM2 fitted, the 47 body being shallower than a 37. For me the end results were not worth all the effort to get it fitted.

More details on my WB thread - The Northern Lights.  

I'm considering an EM1 + Sugar Cube or a Twin Zimo Dumbo for my next attempt, either option should be far easier to fit.

 

That's a good idea re using a decoder tester to sample different speakers before committing.....

 

Regards

Ken

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by tractor_37260
correct text

[Albie the plumber]

On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 10:24, tractor_37260 said:

 

Hi Albie/all

                  To be honest, I found the EM2/ Mid Norfolk 47 combination rather disappointing, and lacking in the "top end". It was also a lot of work to get the EM2 fitted, the 47 body being shallower than a 37. For me the end results were not worth all the effort to get it fitted.

More details on my WB thread - The Northern Lights.  

I'm considering an EM1 + Sugar Cube or a Twin Zimo Dumbo for my next attempt, either option should be far easier to fit.

 

That's a good idea re using a decoder tester to sample different speakers before committing.....

 

Regards

Ken

 

 

Hi Ken 

 

Just shows what different ears can or cannot hear , personally , I love it .

No doubt its a hard slog of a job , I won't be doing a production line of them .

Didn't try an EM1 and sugar cube even though I've got one of each kicking round .

Given the depth of the recess at the fan end , I would think an EM1 would fly in , it did with my 25s 

 

Regards

 

Albie 

[tractor_37260]

1 hour ago, Albie the plumber said:

Hi Ken 

 

Just shows what different ears can or cannot hear , personally , I love it .

No doubt its a hard slog of a job , I won't be doing a production line of them .

Didn't try an EM1 and sugar cube even though I've got one of each kicking round .

Given the depth of the recess at the fan end , I would think an EM1 would fly in , it did with my 25s 

 

Regards

 

Albie 

Too many rock and heavy metal concerts over the years hasn't helped ! couldn't hear right for almost a week after a recent one..lol. ...

Anyway I don't think the EM2 suits the engine character of a 47 that well it needs a bit more top end thrash/clatter/turbo spool down whine..etc....

Cheers

Ken

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by tractor_37260
spelling correction

[SouthernMafia]

Has anyone done a 73 with an EM1/2? Im thinking of gutting one of my Dapol 73s to run "dead" with another 73 as a pair, so there will be plenty of room for an EM2. Got 2 73 chips already but yet to go down the EM route... although I can feel an order being placed any day now...

[Albie the plumber]

On ‎17‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 17:55, SouthernMafia said:

Has anyone done a 73 with an EM1/2? Im thinking of gutting one of my Dapol 73s to run "dead" with another 73 as a pair, so there will be plenty of room for an EM2. Got 2 73 chips already but yet to go down the EM route... although I can feel an order being placed any day now...

 

Might be worth asking Charlie at DC kits to see if they done a '73 .

They've tried it with most other classes of loco

[SouthernMafia]

I've almost completed my EM2 installation into my dummy 73:

 

 

My first experience of an EM2 and it does sound excellent, but have got to sort a slight rattle. 

 

Have also installed an EM1 in a Class 70 in preparation for a reblown chip arriving soon. Couldn't resist putting the MNR 47 in there though and boy does it sound good!

[55020]

17 minutes ago, SouthernMafia said:

 

Have also installed an EM1 in a Class 70 in preparation for a reblown chip arriving soon. Couldn't resist putting the MNR 47 in there though and boy does it sound good!

 

What did you pair the EM1 with?  I'm curious to learn if anyone has found the perfect match.

 

 

Steve

[SouthernMafia]

14 minutes ago, 55020 said:

 

What did you pair the EM1 with?  I'm curious to learn if anyone has found the perfect match.

 

 

Steve

 

Just a standard 20x40 4ohm 1.5W speaker that I think comes with some of the sound fitted models. I always used to replace them with Alan Butcher speakers which seemed to provide a better quality, but this was all I had available that I knew I could safely match.  Sounds pretty good, what are the other matching options?

 

[SouthernMafia]

2 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

73 sounds good, not a bad way of doing it because they often run in pairs anyway. Add some weight to it to stop the rattle. I use car wheel weights because they are quite heavy for the size off them. You have done your 70 pretty much the same as me. I'm not totally happy with mine, I'm gonna try and get an EM2 in there at some point! Richard

 

Thanks Richard, I've added weight which made a vast improvement but still some work to do. Might need some sort of rubber/dense foam material between the body and the speaker sides.

The 70 is done like yours as that's where I got the idea! It's actually a relatively simply install, just need to move and tidy the lighting control switches. Will be doing the same to a 47 shortly.

 

Out of interest, what speaker would be suitable to run in series with an EM2? Might put a small one in the other 73 to give a bit more high frequencies as it is very bassy!

[Albie the plumber]

On ‎01‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 13:23, SouthernMafia said:

 

Thanks Richard, I've added weight which made a vast improvement but still some work to do. Might need some sort of rubber/dense foam material between the body and the speaker sides.

The 70 is done like yours as that's where I got the idea! It's actually a relatively simply install, just need to move and tidy the lighting control switches. Will be doing the same to a 47 shortly.

 

Out of interest, what speaker would be suitable to run in series with an EM2? Might put a small one in the other 73 to give a bit more high frequencies as it is very bassy!

In my experience , adding another speaker tends to cancel or severely curtail the benefits of the EM2 .

I've tried it myself with various locos and to my ear , they always sound better when used by themselves .

 

Albie  

[SouthernMafia]

Thanks for that. Makes sense in the same loco but with a pair of locos I am wondering...

 

 

[Albie the plumber]

On 18/06/2019 at 11:19, Eddie R v2.0 said:

Had the pleasure of hearing a trio of EM2 fitted locos on the layout yesterday- 2x 37 and a 47......just WOW! Highlight was the 37 that had Biff's WD 37/4 file on it! The baseboards were actually vibrating as it rumbled round the layout. It just reminded me of being a youngster growing up in Oban and listening to the evening train to Glasgow struggle up the hill to Glencruitten. Highly recommended, only problem is that it makes my 37s seem a little feeble by comparison...

 

They do make the rest sound Feeble , even if they have  a 58x22 Bass Reflex speaker which most of mine do . 

Do not assume however that fitting an EM2 to every loco you have will always pay dividends , the results vary .

[SouthernMafia]

Had a go at an EM2 in my Class 205 Thumper. It was easier to install under the body, but this adds another unsightly block to the interior, and I wasn't convinced it sounded as good as being mounted on the underframe, so this is the option I went with. Required an EM2 sized hole being cut into the chassis, and the underframe boxes don't cover the entire sides of the speaker, but I can live with this. 

 

 

[Gary H]

Good evening chaps, I am now bang in the middle of fitting an EM2 to a Bachy 37. Chassis is milled, speaker fitted and cable management sorted.

I just have a little confusion with regards the head/tail lights and cab lights.

I note that the head and tails have their own SMD resistors on the board inside the nose ends so I'm assuming these are wired straight to the relative function wires?

 

The cab lights, on the other hand, do not have any resistors fitted so am I to assume that I need to fit a suitably rated resistor in-line with each function wire for these? I will be hard wiring all this to the ESU adapter board 51968, do these boards have suitable resistors already integral with the board? (still waiting on delivery of these)

Thank you.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Gary H

[Albie the plumber]

On 25/10/2019 at 17:32, Gary H said:

Good evening chaps, I am now bang in the middle of fitting an EM2 to a Bachy 37. Chassis is milled, speaker fitted and cable management sorted.

I just have a little confusion with regards the head/tail lights and cab lights.

I note that the head and tails have their own SMD resistors on the board inside the nose ends so I'm assuming these are wired straight to the relative function wires?

 

The cab lights, on the other hand, do not have any resistors fitted so am I to assume that I need to fit a suitably rated resistor in-line with each function wire for these? I will be hard wiring all this to the ESU adapter board 51968, do these boards have suitable resistors already integral with the board? (still waiting on delivery of these)

Thank you.

 I've used the 51968 on several projects where I have used an EM2 or other large speaker .

The board has no resistors so it wouldn't hurt to use one for the cab lights ,besides which it would dim them to an acceptable level ..

I've always wired the resistor to the blue ,common positive wire on the board . Haven't blown anything yet although I did when testing a Bachy 25 head code light with a smoke alarm battery and a couple of wires going from it .

I've now wired a resistor to that wire .

[Gary H]

On 29/10/2019 at 19:08, Albie the plumber said:

 I've used the 51968 on several projects where I have used an EM2 or other large speaker .

The board has no resistors so it wouldn't hurt to use one for the cab lights ,besides which it would dim them to an acceptable level ..

I've always wired the resistor to the blue ,common positive wire on the board . Haven't blown anything yet although I did when testing a Bachy 25 head code light with a smoke alarm battery and a couple of wires going from it .

I've now wired a resistor to that wire .

Thanks, Albie, that's very helpful to know!

[tractor_37260]

On 25/10/2019 at 17:32, Gary H said:

Good evening chaps, I am now bang in the middle of fitting an EM2 to a Bachy 37. Chassis is milled, speaker fitted and cable management sorted.

I just have a little confusion with regards the head/tail lights and cab lights.

I note that the head and tails have their own SMD resistors on the board inside the nose ends so I'm assuming these are wired straight to the relative function wires?

 

The cab lights, on the other hand, do not have any resistors fitted so am I to assume that I need to fit a suitably rated resistor in-line with each function wire for these? I will be hard wiring all this to the ESU adapter board 51968, do these boards have suitable resistors already integral with the board? (still waiting on delivery of these)

Thank you.

 

if you look further up in this thread I've explained how to wire up these 51968 boards in response to Foden's query.

Your cab lights will require a resistor - 1Kohm on each decoder Aux output wire used will be ok.

U+ = positive common connection - Blue wires - if more than one used connect all together.

Resistance can be added to the Blue wire, but you then loose the individual circuit brightness adjustment you can have by using different value resistors to suit different LED outputs on the decoder negative output wires, this is as per the circuits on the rear of the 51968 boards.

Any other queries - just ask.....

HTH

Edited November 1, 2019 by tractor_37260
correct text

[Gary H]

15 hours ago, tractor_37260 said:

 

if you look further up in this thread I've explained how to wire up these 51968 boards in response to Foden's query.

Your cab lights will require a resistor - 1Kohm on each decoder Aux output wire used will be ok.

U+ = positive common connection - Blue wires - if more than one used connect all together.

Resistance can be added to the Blue wire, but you then loose the individual circuit brightness adjustment you can have by using different value resistors to suit different LED outputs on the decoder negative output wires, this is as per the circuits on the rear of the 51968 boards.

Any other queries - just ask.....

HTH

Thanks very much, now I understand it! Over the last 12 years, (having taken a 12 year break from British 00)  I have done a few installs on U.S outline loco's, fitting LOK 4's, Tsunami's (yes, I know) and converting Athearn's useless 1.5 volt incandescent headlight bulbs to LEDs etc but these 51968 adapter boards and Bachmann Class 37's and their lighting are very much out of my comfort zone/ familiarity. Last time I owned a Bachy 37, it was from the very first run without lights and 4 axle drive!!! Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my query! 

[tractor_37260]

On 01/11/2019 at 16:07, Gary H said:

Thanks very much, now I understand it! Over the last 12 years, (having taken a 12 year break from British 00)  I have done a few installs on U.S outline loco's, fitting LOK 4's, Tsunami's (yes, I know) and converting Athearn's useless 1.5 volt incandescent headlight bulbs to LEDs etc but these 51968 adapter boards and Bachmann Class 37's and their lighting are very much out of my comfort zone/ familiarity. Last time I owned a Bachy 37, it was from the very first run without lights and 4 axle drive!!! Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my query! 

 

Here's one of my 51968 boards wired up ready to install in a 37. NB: This is one of later versions, there have been a number of revisions to the 51968 circuit board layout.

Note SMD resistors have been fitted to the output's for FL / RL / Aux 1 & 2 (Tails)  the other Aux outputs (3 to 6) will have in-line resistors fitted to the wires.

 

[Gary H]

On 03/11/2019 at 15:07, tractor_37260 said:

 

Here's one of my 51968 boards wired up ready to install in a 37. NB: This is one of later versions, there have been a number of revisions to the 51968 circuit board layout.

Note SMD resistors have been fitted to the output's for FL / RL / Aux 1 & 2 (Tails)  the other Aux outputs (3 to 6) will have in-line resistors fitted to the wires.

 

Thank you for that, it does look very straightforward.

[Super-Sloth]

On 24/07/2018 at 23:58, Richard Croft said:

I offer an EM2 fitting service through roads-and-rails.co.uk and will do the complete job, but I have had a few people who have just asked me to do the milling and have sent me a chassis already stripped down. I just send it back ready to put back together.

 

So far I have done:

 

Bachmann: Warship, Deltic

Hornby: 50

Dapol: Western

Heljan: 27, 33, Hymek

 

That’s not to say I can’t so others, it’s just I’ve not got around to them yet. Next up will be a Bachmann 37,47 and 25 (if I can make it fit) and also a Hornby HST and 56.

 

I can get them done quicker than a lot of people because it’s my full time job. Prices vary because some need a lot more work than others.

 

Richard

 

Have you got any further details / images on what was involved in fitting the Heljan Hymek? 
 

Cheers, 

 

Jon.

[Super-Sloth]

2 hours ago, Richard Croft said:

Its one of the harder ones I've done! You need to take the motor out and mill the floor so its just thin enough not to go through, then you glue the motor right to the base of the model and the speaker can go above it, it takes quite a bit of milling and the speaker only just fits.

 

Richard

Sounds like theres a fine line between success and destruction!
I've since read that LMB don't reccommend the EM2 for the hymek, although I was impressed by your video?
What do you believe to be the best solution in terms of quality of sound on the Heljan hymek?

[Albie the plumber]

3 hours ago, Super-Sloth said:

Sounds like theres a fine line between success and destruction!
I've since read that LMB don't reccommend the EM2 for the hymek, although I was impressed by your video?
What do you believe to be the best solution in terms of quality of sound on the Heljan hymek?

Did one last year with an EM1 and a sugar cube with Bif's project .

Sounds fab ! 

Certainly better than the original 23mm speaker .

Also have a Zimo version. 

Had to put an EM 2 in that one as every other speaker sound drove me mad ! 

Dont remember butchering the chassis excessively. 

[SouthernMafia]

Having bought a few more EM1s and EM2s on Richards excellent eBay shop I set about installing them in two 60s and a 56. I don't have a milling machine and was surprised to see how relatively little metal work removal is required for the EM2 in these two Type 5s, particularly the Class 56.

 

Some images attached of how I did the 56, firstly removing the bogie gubbins and clamping to the workbench, before removing the screw blocks at the fan end with a hack saw blade:

 

 

This took less than 3 minutes. You will also need to remove the other end of the screw housing on the underside of the roof either side of the fans. 

 

The EM2 sits nicely over the fly wheel but a slight indent is needed to clear them:

 

I tried the speaker both ways up/down and in the end settled on it face up beneath the fans. The fan housing had already been removed for the previous speaker, and fans have been glued directly to the roof. It's a slightly tighter fit face up but I think sounds better. Plenty of material was sculpted off the top edges of the speaker so the body fitted on nicely:

 

Once the body is back on I then drilled through by the coupling mech to add a single screw at this end to hold the body down, as we have now lost the fixing screws at this end. Bluetack also worked relatively well.

It sounds awesome, my best EM2 install yet. 

 

The 60 has been done too, this needed a lot more chassis removal but still was done with a hacksaw and about 30-45 minutes of hacking. This image is before removal and shows the cleaned up areas that had about 3-4mm removed from them. 

 

 

This was a bit tighter and the circuit board had to be moved, and wiring connections permanently soldered (ie lose the small black boxes Hornby use to attach wires to the pads) to get the body to fit back on. Face down this time so it comes out the side grilles and bogie hole. Sounds great!

 

 

I've also got a 56 and 60 with EM1 with Richards recommended 12ohm speaker wired in parallel and these sound very nice too. I think they will also be upgraded to EM2 in time and the EM1s put towards other suitable projects such as 47s. I'm also going to try a 150 see how that sounds.

 

Cheers for now.

[Albie the plumber]

With the exception of the class 40 , most classes of loco sound better for fitment of an EM2.......assuming you get the thing to fit ! 

Always worth testing the sound first