Legomanbiffo earth movers fitting questions

[tractor_37260]

OK , so now that the baby brush has had the EM2 treatment , I'm now looking at the class 37 chassis block with a view to putting an EM2 into that .

 

First thing that becomes immediately obvious is that if you place the EM into the centre of the block and fit it so that it would be flush with the top

 

of the block , then it would become 2 halves of a chassis block as there would be virtually nothing left to hold it together !

 

Is that the way people brave enough to have a go are doing this ?

 

Or does the EM get shifted towards the fan area ?

 

Any advice would be most welcome 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Albie

 

Hi Albie

              First thing you'll need is a bottle of "brave" pills LOL   I've a couple of 37 chassis atm for EM2 fitment. I don't think the top of the speaker has to be flush with the chassis block, that would  

seriously weaken possibly break the chassis. I'll be working on the theory - (and that's still to be proven !) -  that the recess only requires to be deep enough so that the top edge of the speaker is NO higher than a fitted decoder etc, or thereabouts ? to allow the body to fit on. - so roughly half the speaker depth..............

 

I don't think it will make much difference (sound wise at least) where you have the chassis recess, in the center or towards either end, but either way you will loose the motor mounting, and one perhaps both of the locating screw holes for the bodyshell.

 

There's some interesting info from Mr Brammer  re EM2's etc on the FREE DVD that came with June's BRM -  worth a look 

 

More once I get out to the garage/WB first week ................

 

HTH

Ken

Edited July 9, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Albie the plumber]

Hi Albie

              First thing you'll need is a bottle of "brave" pills LOL   I've a couple of 37 chassis atm for EM2 fitment. I don't think the top of the speaker has to be flush with the chassis block, that would  

seriously weaken possibly break the chassis. I'll be working on the theory - (and that's still to be proven !) -  that the recess only requires to be deep enough so that the top edge of the speaker is NO higher than a fitted decoder etc, or thereabouts ? to allow the body to fit on. - so roughly half the speaker depth..............

 

I don't think it will make much difference (sound wise at least) where you have the chassis recess, in the center or towards either end, but either way you will loose the motor mounting, and one perhaps both of the locating screw holes for the bodyshell.

 

There's some interesting info from Mr Brammer  re EM2's etc on the FREE DVD that came with June's BRM -  worth a look 

 

More once I get out to the garage/WB first week ................

 

HTH

Ken

 

Thanks Ken ,

 

Helpful as always !

 

I took the trouble of buying a spare block off ebay thus should this go pear shaped , all I've lost is the cost of the chassis block .

 

I'm inclined to follow your advice and burrow into the chassis by about 7-8mm and try it for fit .

 

Perhaps grinding down those pesky lugs that run virtually the length of the body shell might help .

 

Regards ,

 

Albie

[tractor_37260]

My first EM2/Biff's WD chassis fitted 37 is "growling" like a good un = WOW it's good, even better once the body was fitted - and what a faff it was to get it to fit back on properly.  Just need to finish sorting out the wiring for the 8 function lighting and then map all the lights - only problem is, it's makes earlier versions now sound very lacking !

 

Definitely worth the hassle of fitting the speaker inside on the chassis, the sound gets even better once the body is refitted....................

 

Next one should be easier, knowing the do's and don'ts in advance........

 

Albie

 

"I'm inclined to follow your advice and burrow into the chassis by about 7-8mm and try it for fit" . 

 

>> Do that and the speaker will foul the top of the motor (I ended up having to pack the speaker to raise it) --- make the chassis recess for the speaker around 5mm deep, file the grid on the bottom of the speaker flat (avoiding the small terminal board/speaker base) Before fitting the speaker,round off it's long top edges, if not you'll probably find the body won't fit properly. Depending on where you place the speaker on the chassis, one or both of the center body securing plastic pillars inside the shell will require removing, and possibly the original speaker/fan mounting in the roof also.

Edited August 4, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Albie the plumber]

My first EM2/Biff's WD chassis fitted 37 is "growling" like a good un = WOW it's good, even better once the body was fitted - and what a faff it was to get it to fit back on properly.  Just need to finish sorting out the wiring for the 8 function lighting and then map all the lights - only problem is, it's makes earlier versions now sound very lacking !

 

Definitely worth the hassle of fitting the speaker inside on the chassis, the sound gets even better once the body is refitted....................

 

Next one should be easier, knowing the do's and don'ts in advance........

 

Albie

 

"I'm inclined to follow your advice and burrow into the chassis by about 7-8mm and try it for fit" . 

 

>> Do that and the speaker will foul the top of the motor (I ended up having to pack the speaker to raise it) --- make the chassis recess for the speaker around 5mm deep, file the grid on the bottom of the speaker flat (avoiding the small terminal board/speaker base) Before fitting the speaker,round off it's long top edges, if not you'll probably find the body won't fit properly. Depending on where you place the speaker on the chassis, one or both of the center body securing plastic pillars inside the shell will require removing, and possibly the original speaker/fan mounting in the roof also.

 

Hi Ken ,

 

That is priceless info you have supplied there !

Thank you VERY much !

The chassis is still on my work bench awaiting its dispatch to my friend with his magic milling machine .

Will be sending it to him in due course .

Will report back when I reassemble it .

It may take a while as I use the older model and always retrofit lights to it .

So plenty of Faffing about expected here !

 

Thanks again , I'm sure many others on this forum will be grateful for this info 

 

Albie

[Foden]

Without trying to step on Steve/Merlin's toes regarding his fitting service, would anyone care to venture into a photographed step-by-step how 2 for fitting an EM2 into the body of a common model, maybe a 37 or 47?

I'd like to give this a go myself and replace my 20x40 roof enclosed models with EM2s, but I have a little trepidation about potentially ruining the chassis of a model that cost 3 figures. I appreciate every venture needs a pioneer to do it the first time, but I'm just not THAT brave/confident, yet with the right guidance I will grab the dremmel.

Steve, I do hope you don't see this 'request' as trying to undermine your fitting service. What you offer is for some people, but with around 18 potential candidates for surgery, my budget simply wouldn't stretch to a commissioned speaker fit on all models. Plus, anxiety aside, it's something I'd really like to do myself anyway, for the modelling enjoyment if nothing else.

[MikeParkin65]

 

 I will grab the dremmel.

 

I haven't fitted an EM into a diesel yet, only the tender of an 8F so far but from many a minor chassis modification I can say with confidence you are going to need more than a Dremel

[Foden]

I haven't fitted an EM into a diesel yet, only the tender of an 8F so far but from many a minor chassis modification I can say with confidence you are going to need more than a Dremel

I suspect indeed you're right. I was using the term broadly ofcourse to suggest some form of machine of butchery would be required.

 

Not having access to a milling machine myself, nor knowing anyone that has, I've been looking at these mini milling machines on ebay for a few hundred pounds, generally from Germany, or ofcourse the old ebay favourite, China.

 

I've no background at all in metalwork and fabrication, mechanical yes, absolutely, but not fabrication. So I'm not sure if one of these machines is the best route to market, or there are other tools more readily available to do the job.

[RD400]

I've started to fit a em2 into a Bachmann class 37 nearly finished it but just at the moment other things have taken over it does sound out of this world.

This is the first time I've attempted this kind of fit milling the chassis out had me worried but as they say nothing ventured nothing gained

If anyone wants any more info or pictures I've taken quite a few

[tractor_37260]

I suspect indeed you're right. I was using the term broadly ofcourse to suggest some form of machine of butchery would be required.

 

Not having access to a milling machine myself, nor knowing anyone that has, I've been looking at these mini milling machines on ebay for a few hundred pounds, generally from Germany, or ofcourse the old ebay favourite, China.

 

I've no background at all in metalwork and fabrication, mechanical yes, absolutely, but not fabrication. So I'm not sure if one of these machines is the best route to market, or there are other tools more readily available to do the job.

 

I managed it with a good bench vice hacksaw drills and files.... it's hard work..... but you get there in the end..the chassis metal is fairly soft so that also helped.   Access to a milling machine would make it easier, but it's not essential........

[Kylestrome]

Am I the only one who would be worried that the chassis might snap in half? That last photo shows that there is very little metal left in the middle.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Kylestrome

[MikeParkin65]

Am I the only one who would be worried that the chassis might snap in half? That last photo shows that there is very little metal left in the middle.

Also the impact on pulling power and electrical pickup given the amount of weight lost.

[tractor_37260]

Also the impact on pulling power and electrical pickup given the amount of weight lost.

 

Bach Class 37 as supplied ex factory =  550 gms

With tank weight removed to fit a speaker/s = 500 gms

With EM2 chassis mounted speaker = 525 gms 

 

All my versions run equally well - if really necessary - 25/50 grams etc ballast could easily be added. A Bachmann 37 with chassis mounted EM2 speaker using Bif's latest Wensleydale sound file really is something special - makes all other 37 sound files sound sadly lacking ! 

Edited August 10, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Albie the plumber]

Also the impact on pulling power and electrical pickup given the amount of weight lost.

 

I regularly removed the 50gram weight from the tanks of my 37's to accommodate the 58x22 bass reflex speaker .

They still pull 10 coach trains with ease .

[Albie the plumber]

Well done to those brave enough to have taken the plunge with hacking away at the chassis !

All this info and now , photos to help us .

It will only make the job easier so thanks !

 

My milling man is on his hols and I personally don't fancy the hacksaw option .

So I'll just have to wait .

The only real challenge thereafter that I can see is getting the wiring from the chip to run neatly around the speaker and join with other wires .

 

Any wires touching any part of the speaker are likely to buzz when the loco is running in sound mode if my class 31 project was anything to go by .

 

 

[Revolution Mike B]

I've started to fit a em2 into a Bachmann class 37 nearly finished it but just at the moment other things have taken over it does sound out of this world.

This is the first time I've attempted this kind of fit milling the chassis out had me worried but as they say nothing ventured nothing gained

If anyone wants any more info or pictures I've taken quite a few

 

Interesting that you've managed to leave the motor in it's original mounting point   

[tractor_37260]

Interesting that you've managed to leave the motor in it's original mounting point   

 

Em it's not possible to chassis fit an EM2 speaker without removing the original motor mounting area........as RD400's photos above show, the motor is mounted directly on the tank weight.................

[RD400]

Em it's not possible to chassis fit an EM2 speaker without removing the original motor mounting area........as RD400's photos above show, the motor is mounted directly on the tank weight.................

That's correct stuck the motor with extra strong double sided tape to the weights in the tank

[Revolution Mike B]

That's correct stuck the motor with extra strong double sided tape to the weights in the tank

 

Ah, my mistake, it looked like it was still in it's original place.

[tractor_37260]

Ah, my mistake, it looked like it was still in it's original place.

 

On an original 37 model the bottom of the motor is already very close to the tank weight, once it's re-mounted ON the tank weight, looking at the chassis side on, it's hard to notice the motor's lower position.

[woodys]

I just fitted an EM2 to a Dapol class 52 with lok V4 and Biffoman sounds. I have a range of Westerns with all kinds of sounds and speaker options but this is another level. It will make your ballast jump about if you haven't glued it properly! Not too difficult to do but you need to be precise and cut enough out to isolate the speaker with flexi mounts to prevent rattle...! I'll put something on YouTube soon..!

[Albie the plumber]

I just fitted an EM2 to a Dapol class 52 with lok V4 and Biffoman sounds. I have a range of Westerns with all kinds of sounds and speaker options but this is another level. It will make your ballast jump about if you haven't glued it properly! Not too difficult to do but you need to be precise and cut enough out to isolate the speaker with flexi mounts to prevent rattle...! I'll put something on YouTube soon..!

 

Look forward to that !

[RD400]

I just fitted an EM2 to a Dapol class 52 with lok V4 and Biffoman sounds. I have a range of Westerns with all kinds of sounds and speaker options but this is another level. It will make your ballast jump about if you haven't glued it properly! Not too difficult to do but you need to be precise and cut enough out to isolate the speaker with flexi mounts to prevent rattle...! I'll put something on YouTube soon..!

Me too

[charliepetty]

Me too

 

Assuming the can be 'Engineered' to fit your loco, then these are 'THE BEST' speakers you can get, not cheap but brilliant.    Charlie

 

PPS We have EM3's & EM4's on sale at the O Gauge show in Telford this weekend.    Charlie  DCKits/Legomanbiffo

 

SEE you there.  OR Swindon the weekend after.

[woodys]

I just fitted an EM2 to a Dapol class 52 with lok V4 and Biffoman sounds. I have a range of Westerns with all kinds of sounds and speaker options but this is another level. It will make your ballast jump about if you haven't glued it properly! Not too difficult to do but you need to be precise and cut enough out to isolate the speaker with flexi mounts to prevent rattle...! I'll put something on YouTube soon..!

Here's a few pics of my installation on Dapol Western. You don't need to take much metal off, I used a decent file and it took less than 10 minutes.

The cones move a bit when 'loaded' and you need space for the silicone, but you want to keep clear of the bogie.

I took a bit off the speaker enclosure bottom and chamfered the top corners, see pic, so it avoids any contact with the loco body.

The EM2 is then bedded in silicone to dampen the vibrations, also good to insulate the bare speaker connection to prevent any chance of touching the chassis.

It sounds amazing!

The EM2 is a 1watt 4 ohm, so I'm going to fit another smaller speaker at the other end to see how that sounds. Anyone paired an EM2 with a sugar cube? 

[ColinK]

When are we going to have the first derailment caused by the sound from a EM speaker lifting the wheels off the track?