Dapol IDA low floor container wagons

[lucasluckydelux]

Thanks Arran. I should get some of these beautiful C-Rail containers too.

[reggie]

Hi All,

 

I've bought a couple of pairs of the IDA wagons, but am having trouble with derailing through crossovers and some points. I have tried adjusting the bogies to be tighter/looser. I also trimmed the nem coupling hook at the bottom as that seemed to catch on point/crossing rails. The nem coulping is lower than the one on the loco, so that doesn't help either.

 

Any tips on how to improve performance would be appreciated, as they are a great wagon and I really want to get more but am reluctant if I can't get them ti run well on my layout.

 

I'm using peco code 100 track, and have no issues with other locos/rolling stock.

 

Thanks 

 

Reggie

[classy52]

The nem coulping is lower than the one on the loco, so that doesn't help either.

 

Dapol may have an issue with their application of the NEM coupling on their loco's and rolling stock?

This appears to be same issue with the Class 68 where the NEM coupling sags lower than alternate brands rolling stock thus causing modellers problems with detachment on their layouts and having to buy Kadee's to alleviate or fix the issue.

The other thread talks about this, here is the link http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119978-dapols-new-class-68-locomotives/

Edited September 13, 2018 by classy52

[reggie]

Thanks for the info Classy52

[Matt]

Hi All,

 

I've bought a couple of pairs of the IDA wagons, but am having trouble with derailing through crossovers and some points. I have tried adjusting the bogies to be tighter/looser. I also trimmed the nem coupling hook at the bottom as that seemed to catch on point/crossing rails. The nem coulping is lower than the one on the loco, so that doesn't help either.

 

Any tips on how to improve performance would be appreciated, as they are a great wagon and I really want to get more but am reluctant if I can't get them ti run well on my layout.

 

I'm using peco code 100 track, and have no issues with other locos/rolling stock.

 

Thanks 

 

Reggie

 

Reggie,

 

You are not alone here - I bought 4 which arrived literally the day before I dismantled my layout for a house move.  I whipped them out of their boxes and put them on for a test run but could not get far before derailing... they went back in their boxes pretty sharp and the layout was dismantled next day.  I'm sure can be resolved but it will be a while before I have anything operational here.  My old layout could run most things without issues including rakes of 20 HTAs, 20 TEAs etc. but a rake of 4 IDAs didn't like it direct from box. Would be interested in other's experiences and potential solutions for when I finally unpack those boxes...

 

M

[reggie]

Thanks for your reply Matt, at least I'm not the only one then! I would be interested too to hear how others have got on with these and any tips they have...

[bensanchez43310]

The same sort of issues plague my megafret rake, anyone found a solution to the issue on either wagon?

 

Ben

[Matt]

Ben I had one megafret that continuously derailed - resetting wheel back-to-backs resolved.  If I recall correctly they are not easy to adjust as they aren't like normal wheels and I seem to recall I destroyed at least one wheelset in the process... however on one of my wagons the B2B was way out and that seemed to be the cause of derailing.  I never got this far with debugging IDAs but could be same simple issue (or other common problem - coupler action).

M

[bensanchez43310]

Ben I had one megafret that continuously derailed - resetting wheel back-to-backs resolved.  If I recall correctly they are not easy to adjust as they aren't like normal wheels and I seem to recall I destroyed at least one wheelset in the process... however on one of my wagons the B2B was way out and that seemed to be the cause of derailing.  I never got this far with debugging IDAs but could be same simple issue (or other common problem - coupler action).

M

 

Hey Matt, do I need a B2B gauge sorta thing to fix this issue or is there other ways.

 

Ben

[Matt]

a back-to back gauge will do it but so will a pair of Vernier calipers which you can get for a few pounds and will find other uses too.  there is a bit of debate around exactly what setting should be for OO but on some of mine they were out by miles and getting them close to 16.2 - 16.4 mm (i think... this was a while ago and all my stuff in storage at mo) got them running well.

M

[newbryford]

Back to back for OO is usually in the 14.something range. I use 14.5 for Peck code75

 

Cheers

Mick

[Matt]

wow sorry I was miles out - same advice applies but go with mick's numbers... has been a while since I did any real modelling -  a lot of box moving and more recently building baseboard frames...

[bensanchez43310]

a back-to back gauge will do it but so will a pair of Vernier calipers which you can get for a few pounds and will find other uses too.  there is a bit of debate around exactly what setting should be for OO but on some of mine they were out by miles and getting them close to 16.2 - 16.4 mm (i think... this was a while ago and all my stuff in storage at mo) got them running well.

M

 

 

Back to back for OO is usually in the 14.something range. I use 14.5 for Peck code75

 

Cheers

Mick

 

Cheers both, I will get out the Vernier caliper when I get a break from a levels

 

ben

[Matt]

Cheers both, I will get out the Vernier caliper when I get a break from a levels

 

ben

 

oh god sorry to hear that.  I still have nightmares about school exams and i'm 42 now.  only thing I can say is that hard work at school / university paid off and working life is way less hours / stressful than education and you get paid for it.  something to look forward to in a few years!

 

M

[bensanchez43310]

oh god sorry to hear that.  I still have nightmares about school exams and i'm 42 now.  only thing I can say is that hard work at school / university paid off and working life is way less hours / stressful than education and you get paid for it.  something to look forward to in a few years!

 

M

 

haha yeah it has its ups and downs, but the more work I do now the more monies I will have for the hobby in theory. Back to the topic, is it worth buying a rake of IDA's? its tough deciding between Bachmann multifrets and these for the next container rake.

 

Ben

[The Black Hat]

Did Dapol ever do these in GBRf or it just Freightliner and DRS?

[classy52]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Did Dapol ever do these in GBRf or it just Freightliner and DRS?

 

These were just DRS, 4 sets of 2 with different running numbers and just that since their initial release.

[newbryford]

4 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Did Dapol ever do these in GBRf or it just Freightliner and DRS?

 

Pretty certain that only DRS have these wagons anyway.

 

As for derailing issues.

I cured mine by looking at the swinging pockets - there appears to be a small amount of flash on the mouldings that stops them pivotting freely. 

Drag the edges of a sharp knife along them and sorted.

Also slack off the bogie pivot screws by about 1/8 turn to allow them to pivot in a front/rear vertical plane.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by newbryford

[dogbox321]

47 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Pretty certain that only DRS have these wagons anyway.

 

As for derailing issues.

I cured mine by looking at the swinging pockets - there appears to be a small amount of flash on the mouldings that stops them pivotting freely. 

Drag the edges of a sharp knife along them and sorted.

Also slack off the bogie pivot screws by about 1/8 turn to allow them to pivot in a front/rear vertical plane.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

I thought GBRf did use some at some stage, via a freight wagon leasing company, but cannot be 100% on that.  I know they certainly tried it because I went to Multi-Modal (just as a visitor, with no logistics company affiliation) the year that they had an IDA on show, and after perusing the wagon, and being pretty impressed, I pointed out, the one thing it did not have for intermodal traffic - they said well GBRf, Freightliner and DRS have all trialed the wagon, and haven't picked it up.  I then told them why it should, and gave them reasons as to why no-one may have identified it.  Then a former Senior Manager from Trainload Freight and EWS, joined in and said, "He's absolutely right, it should, he knows what he's talking about!"  They went pretty quiet and eventually said well we suppose we can add one if we need to!  So GBRf have certainly used one, but I don't know for what traffic flow.

 

If only Goodrington Container Terminal had come about, they may have been running down to Devon!

 

Regards,

 

C.

 

 

 

[YesTor]

2 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

I pointed out, the one thing it did not have for intermodal traffic - they said well GBRf, Freightliner and DRS have all trialed the wagon, and haven't picked it up.  I then told them why it should, and gave them reasons as to why no-one may have identified it.  Then a former Senior Manager from Trainload Freight and EWS, joined in and said, "He's absolutely right, it should, he knows what he's talking about!"  They went pretty quiet and eventually said well we suppose we can add one if we need to! 

 

 

Am I the only one thinking that you appear to be talking about 'something' without actually saying what it is...?!  It might help if you could define what "it" actually is... 

[Matt]

11 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Pretty certain that only DRS have these wagons anyway.

 

As for derailing issues.

I cured mine by looking at the swinging pockets - there appears to be a small amount of flash on the mouldings that stops them pivotting freely. 

Drag the edges of a sharp knife along them and sorted.

Also slack off the bogie pivot screws by about 1/8 turn to allow them to pivot in a front/rear vertical plane.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Thanks Mick.  I've started to unpack stock as have a small part of the new layout working now.  Your post has likely accelerated finding the IDAs and running them - otherwise they would likely have languished in the "difficult" pile until much later.

 

The fix you've described was actually one applied to a Bach carflat a few days ago that was also derailing randomly.

 

M

Edited September 12, 2019 by Matt

[159220]

16 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

I thought GBRf did use some at some stage, via a freight wagon leasing company, but cannot be 100% on that.  I know they certainly tried it because I went to Multi-Modal (just as a visitor, with no logistics company affiliation) the year that they had an IDA on show, and after perusing the wagon, and being pretty impressed, I pointed out, the one thing it did not have for intermodal traffic - they said well GBRf, Freightliner and DRS have all trialed the wagon, and haven't picked it up.  I then told them why it should, and gave them reasons as to why no-one may have identified it.  Then a former Senior Manager from Trainload Freight and EWS, joined in and said, "He's absolutely right, it should, he knows what he's talking about!"  They went pretty quiet and eventually said well we suppose we can add one if we need to!  So GBRf have certainly used one, but I don't know for what traffic flow.

 

If only Goodrington Container Terminal had come about, they may have been running down to Devon!

 

Regards,

 

C.

 

You sound to be a well connected chap so please know I do not mean to sound patronising or corrective... I think you have got confused between the WH Davies IDA 'Super Low 45' intermodal flat and the VTG FWA 'ECOfret' intermodal flat (called the 'Superliner' by Freightliner). The latter, FWA prototype was shown off by VTG (leasing company) at Multimodal 2012 and trialed by GB Railfreight, Freightliner and DB Schenker UK. Subsequently, batches were leased by Freightliner, GB Railfreight and DB Schenker UK. The FWA is 'similar' in terms of being shorter than the standard 60ft intermodal flats, both the IDA and FWA have 'Barber SER' bogies but at different heights of 18.5 and 20.5. The FWA is a 'leasing company' wagon whereas the IDA is a 'private owners' wagon. The WH Davies IDA 'Super Low 45' was designed and built by WH Davies for the NDA/DRS who bought these. WH Davies hoped to have the flat ordered (via leasing companies) by other FOCs, yet none were forthcoming as from early use of the IDA its ride was in doubt and extensive modifications to the bogie and brake system were identified (you'll recall the Gloucester Tescoliner derailment with an IDA). Most of the DRS fleet have been in store at Motherwell pending a decision on these modifications, the loss of the Russell Logistics contract did not help (this has subsequently been re-awarded to DRS). Currently, modifications are occurring, slowly, on the fleet at Motherwell and keen spotters would have noticed the IDA seeing use on Daventry-Scotland and Daventry-Tilbury flows. I'll check with GB Railfreight whether they have used one in a trail, yet it is something I have never seen/or been told during following the IDA and FWA developments. 

 

(Ironically, the FWAs have also had ride issues with the bogie - reported in the press at the time in the East Midlands - perhaps the Barber SER bogie was just too revolutionary for the UK network...)

[Jack374]

35 minutes ago, 159220 said:

...from early use of the IDA its ride was in doubt and extensive modifications to the bogie and brake system were identified...

 

Still ongoing as of last month, with a couple of runs around the Midlands from Derby Litchurch Lane (pictured) and a run from there to Kingmoor with a single 68 and IDA set, complete with Stobart curtainsides:

 

 

There is currently an IDA set and 2 Stobart containers on the workbench, to appear on a Derby-based present day layout at Wigan exhibition...

 

Jack.

[159220]

And here is a recent Russell Logistics with a few modified IDAs: 

 

Copyright. Flickr - ADB968024

 

REALLY HOPE Dapol DO THE RUSSELL 45ft! 

[Matt]

well I got my IDAs out of storage and checked the bogies - 75% of them were tightened so far on the screws that there was no lateral movement possible at all and quickly rolling across some pointwork showed the issue as wheels became unweighted and over-rode the rails before derailing.  All now backed off a small amt to allow a bit more movement and hopefully will resolve issue.  Layout out of action currently so can't test in anger but should be able to next week...