Hornby Q6 Slow Running Issues!

[john new]

Came across this whilst looking for an answer to another question regarding the Q6 model, therefore now two questions not one:-

 

1) Do you think they are worth buying given these issues?

 

2) My other question - Anybody know why the price on the BR livery versions seems almost double that for the LNER option? The next layout I build will be a preserved line so livery for any purchase is partially immaterial. (If the line is fictitious so can be the preservation societies allowing flexibility in what might have been preserved) Best price I have seen so far on the LNER example is almost half what the BR one's are set at. Is it just overstocking/discounting to clear?

 

Edit update - if relevant to the answer re (1) it will be for DC Analogue running not DCC and with Gaugemaster control gear.

Edited October 1, 2018 by john new

[MikeParkin65]

Came across this whilst looking for an answer to another question regarding the Q6 model, therefore now two questions not one:-

 

1) Do you think they are worth buying given these issues?

 

2) My other question - Anybody know why the price on the BR livery versions seems almost double that for the LNER option? The next layout I build will be a preserved line so livery for any purchase is partially immaterial. (If the line is fictitious so can be the preservation societies allowing flexibility in what might have been preserved) Best price I have seen so far on the LNER example is almost half what the BR one's are set at. Is it just overstocking/discounting to clear?

 

Edit update - if relevant to the answer re (1) it will be for DC Analogue running not DCC and with Gaugemaster control gear.

Touch wood mine has been fine. We tend to only hear about the failures which while disappointing (especially if yours is one of them!) means there must be a good proportion of happy customers out there. I dont think these motor issues affect the majority of models   so if you want one I'd not be put off. As for LNER versus BR prices I reckon its just popularity of the latter - plus the LNER version is I think more particular to specific time frame - it would need more than a quick respray to allow its wider use (if that sort of thing bothers you).

[john new]

Touch wood mine has been fine. We tend to only hear about the failures which while disappointing (especially if yours is one of them!) means there must be a good proportion of happy customers out there. I dont think these motor issues affect the majority of models   so if you want one I'd not be put off. As for LNER versus BR prices I reckon its just popularity of the latter - plus the LNER version is I think more particular to specific time frame - it would need more than a quick respray to allow its wider use (if that sort of thing bothers you).

Thanks, will go ahead with an order.

[Neil]

A further update on motor availability and a question too.

 

I've just had an e-mail from a reputable source who tells me that Hornby have yet to offer the Q6 motor as a spare. This being so does anyone know of any other suitable replacement? I know it's not beyond my ability to work out my own solution but if someone has already tackled this issue successfully then I see no virtue in re-inventing the wheel.

[atom3624]

I can see that it's HSS 426, but the drive is different to other steam locomotives from Hornby.

 

Al.

[The Johnster]

Is this not the same mech as the 42xx/5202/72xx?  My 42xx performs excellently, a powerful and smooth  slow runner, but it’s had it’s issues with things falling off and fouling the motion.  Pickups need constant attention as well; I won’t be buying any more of these!

[Neil]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Is this not the same mech as the 42xx/5202/72xx?  My 42xx performs excellently, a powerful and smooth  slow runner, but it’s had it’s issues with things falling off and fouling the motion.  Pickups need constant attention as well; I won’t be buying any more of these!

 

I'm afraid it isn't the same, the motor appears to be a different size and shape. I even looked at the Thompson 01 but though closer it's still not a match.

[The Johnster]

Given some of what's been said, that's a bit of a relief: I just sort of assumed all Hornby 8-coupled chassis were generic.  

[Neil]

Far from it; I know that the days of Triang sticking everything on top of a small range of chassis was over but I was surprised to see little in the way of common components or even lay out of drive train across the three 8 coupled mechanisms.

[john new]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Far from it; I know that the days of Triang sticking everything on top of a small range of chassis was over but I was surprised to see little in the way of common components or even lay out of drive train across the three 8 coupled mechanisms.

And a consequential big long term downside. Models that won’t have spares available. We can’t win.

[The Johnster]

I get the impression that the provision of spares by manufacturers is becoming a thing of the past, and we are going to have more ‘no user serviceable parts/taking it apart invalidates everything’ models as overheads are ruthlessly pruned to keep a lid on prices and maintain dividends. 

 

We lose, but win as a larger range of more realistic models can be produced; mostly we get away with it because modern RTR is pretty reliable, which isn’t much of a condolence to you if you’ve just had a loco you’ve spent time and money detailing, improving, weathering, and generally working up breaks irreparably down on you; you have to buy a new one (if it’s in current production) and start again. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by The Johnster

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

10 hours ago, Neil said:

Far from it; I know that the days of Triang sticking everything on top of a small range of chassis was over but I was surprised to see little in the way of common components or even lay out of drive train across the three 8 coupled mechanisms.

Hornby appeared to be using about 8 different manufacturing outfits when the effort to record the idents on the packaging was made on this site, after they had lost Sanda Kan as their manufacturing partner. What was immediately noticeable was the variety in mechanism layout; some of the mechanisms looked much more like Bachmann's practise, than anything seen while SK was sole manufacturing partner. Cannot say it really concerns me, as it is all technique well proven from HO makers, and has all proved robust in frequent operation so far. (B12/3, D16/3, J15, J50, K1, L1, O1.)

[The Johnster]

The majority of my locos are from Bachmann, 9 out of 11, with 2 Hornby, the aforementioned 42xx and a recent production 2721, very much a ‘traditional’ mech.  Both run well, and are reliable in the general run of things, but seem to require more frequent cleaning and attention to pickups than their blue box studmates. 

 

The Baccy bias is not the result of any brand loyalty or preference for their production methods, it is no more than that Baccy make more locos suitable for my South Wales 1950s BLT than anyone else!

[Silver Sidelines]

An update - 63443 went 'lame' nearly two years ago.  Hornby were about as much help as...

 

Anyway I have just successfully remotored it - there is a Post on my Blog

 

 

Cheers  Ray

[Silver Sidelines]

On 05/07/2019 at 12:30, Neil said:

A further update on motor availability and a question too.

 

I've just had an e-mail from a reputable source who tells me that Hornby have yet to offer the Q6 motor as a spare. This being so does anyone know of any other suitable replacement? I know it's not beyond my ability to work out my own solution but if someone has already tackled this issue successfully then I see no virtue in re-inventing the wheel.

Hello Neil

 

See my Post above

 

Cheers Ray

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

13 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

An update - 63443 went 'lame' nearly two years ago.  Hornby were about as much help as...

 

Anyway I have just successfully remotored it - there is a Post on my Blog...

You should only send Hornby the removed motor armature with what is clearly a manufacturing defect.

 

It is very much up to the individual how they go about dealing with the unsatisfactory sparing of RTR OO models, which clearly extends beyond Hornby. My solution, which I have found effective to date, is to immediately run the model for about 10 hours to get it through the 'infant mortality' zone. In the event of failure, a return for replacement (or a refund if no replacement is available) within a week or two of purchase takes care of it.

 

[Silver Sidelines]

34 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

...... what is clearly a manufacturing defect.

 

 

Thanks 34C.

 

For those unfamiliar with my Blog - a picture below of the offending armature - around four hours' use.

 

 

One suggestion that has been put forward is   "i think the grooves are left because either really soft copper has been used, or the carbon brushes are too hard, much like the way they grade pencils".  So a manufacturing or QA issue?

 

Ray

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

3 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

...One suggestion that has been put forward is   "i think the grooves are left because either really soft copper has been used, or the carbon brushes are too hard, much like the way they grade pencils".  So a manufacturing or QA issue?

But it doesn't really matter what the cause was, that's for Hornby to work out; it's clearly faulty, and this has happened well within the normal life expectancy for such a unit.

 

(My opinion is that those grooves in the commutator were machined in at manufacture, and got past whatever QA was in place with the motor manufacturer. The evidence is in the motor cap with the brush assembly, there are no copper filings to be seen. They would be everywhere inside the cap if those grooves had been caused by the motor running.)

[Silver Sidelines]

2 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

 

(My opinion is that those grooves in the commutator were machined in at manufacture, and got past whatever QA was in place with the motor manufacturer. The evidence is in the motor cap with the brush assembly, there are no copper filings to be seen. They would be everywhere inside the cap if those grooves had been caused by the motor running.)

Good points.  There was certainly no carbon deposits when I took the motor apart.  There may have been copper filngs as I thought thre were sparkly bits in the gaps in the commutator - but not a quantity  My eyes were drawn to the groove.  I am also not sure which end of the motor the insulating washer came off as that was lying in the bottom of the casing when I started to reassemble it.  There seemed to be a much thinner washer already at the flywheel end.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

Edited October 21, 2019 by Silver Sidelines

[Neil]

On 20/10/2019 at 20:36, Silver Sidelines said:

Hello Neil

 

See my Post above

 

Cheers Ray

 

Thank you Ray, I've taken a look at your blog and it certainly looks like the way forward with this problem. Your pioneering work around is much appreciated.

[Rshakes3]

Hi all, I know that this is an old topic but my Q6 has been showing the same issue over the last few weeks - stalling for no good reason. Following on from the above I have disassembled the loco, removed the 'driving' wheel and then run the motor/gear box - looking to clean out the 'lubricant' . So from a 'not moving state' my motor was then able to run to a point where I was game enough to reassemble the loco - however I`m not sure if the motor or the gear box was running a bit 'rough'  before I did so - it was not silky smooth

 

Anyway so with all the motion back together it runs 'ok' to a point - the motor is getting very warm and it still tends to stall on any power setting other than full 12 v DC and I`m not happy to put the body back on - its not right.

 

So  looking to take a step forward how can I remove the motor/gear box? I saw in a early thread where one of the team had sourced a new motor but also stated that the gear box cover only clipped on but from what I can see I`m not sure of how it just clips on? - 

 

Anyway any advise will be welcome - thanks team

[Silver Sidelines]

15 hours ago, Rshakes3 said:

 I`m not sure of how it just clips on? -

 

Hello Rs3

 

Clip on - yes - you need a tiny screwdriver.  The cover is prised off by sliding the screw driver under each side and levering off at the bottom

 

I doubt there is an issue with the lubricant or the gear box.  There is plenty of evidence out there that Hornby used a batch of duff motors - something that they would rather not own up to.

 

Ray

[Rshakes3]

Thanks Silver Sidelines - I`ll re visit my loco in the coming days and look to remove the motor and clear out the gears fully. Now I gather you bought a Hornby X6152 motor as your replacement? And I gather that you had to use the same 'process' to remove the worm gear from it - just using a bit of heat and a suitable screw driver? If you could just confirm as I think I`ll find my motor in a poor state and I`ll need to go down the replacement path. 

[Silver Sidelines]

9 hours ago, Rshakes3 said:

.. I gather you bought a Hornby X6152 motor as your replacement? ...... 

 

Thanks Rs..  - I bought an aftermarket motor without any worm gear - so NO I didn't have to heat the new motor up prior to fitting the new worm.  I did heat up the old motor to remove the existing Q6 worm prior to refitting on the new motor.  I have just checked - the type of motor I bought  is still 'for sale':- 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-style-5-Pole-motor-X6152-X6481-X9979-X6898-X6545-X7041-no-worm-gear/254395931101?hash=item3b3b2dd9dd:g:Bf8AAOSwXf1aWN0g

 

Good luck

 

Ray

[micklner]

23 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Thanks Rs..  - I bought an aftermarket motor without any worm gear - so NO I didn't have to heat the new motor up prior to fitting the new worm.  I did heat up the old motor to remove the existing Q6 worm prior to refitting on the new motor.  I have just checked - the type of motor I bought  is still 'for sale':- 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-style-5-Pole-motor-X6152-X6481-X9979-X6898-X6545-X7041-no-worm-gear/254395931101?hash=item3b3b2dd9dd:g:Bf8AAOSwXf1aWN0g

 

Good luck

 

Ray

I have two Q6's motors are both ok at the mo. At £7 inc postage I have just ordered one as spare Thanks !! Only one now showing !! Seller is nothing to do with me !.