Little Muddle

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, KNP said:

Work is proceeding on KH, slight change of direction after looking at a dimensioned drawing and after an earlier comment by Mulgabil realised how long in the nose the front lower frame was

So time for action

 

After measuring is indeed about 9" to long (scale dimension that is)

 

 

So a bit needs to be removed as indicated

 

 

To late to change my mind now!!!

 

 

All glued in place with some strengthening plastic on the underside to bridge the gap

 

 

 

Put to one side now so glue can thoroughly set overnight before I fill and sand smooth.

 

Another change was to remove the solid tender cab handrails and fit wire ones you can see through

 

 

What is helping this little escapade is that I have some excellent pictures and drawings in this book

 

 

The front bogie is now to big as the spacing between the axles is way to big so fear not intrepid followers I will be building another one from scratch....

 

More anon

 

PS - pictures a bit grainy because its dark here because of the rain and I used my iPhone with the room lights on.

 

 

Good work Kevin. Do the same with a slice behind the smokebox door and you'll have dealt with the most toy-like bits.

[KNP]

10 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

Given that this loco was previously going to be subject to the scrap man's lump hammer of doom, what you are doing is quite remarkable!

Tony

 

Thanks

This loco will never match up the latest versions but I do hope to make it 'feel' right and be able to use it in pictures where it might be, say, partially obscured, or disappearing in the distance.

Looking to change the motion as well but can't find anyone with Hornby part X6628 valve and cylinder gear in stock. so if anyone reading this post does can they kindly let me know - Thanks.

 

The dimensions are all wrong for this model but I am using a sort of aesthetic balance approach, so long as the relationship between items is correct then I don't mind if the actual measurements are incorrect.

 

The best example of this approach is the front bogie, I have built one to the dimensions I have of 7' between axle centres but due to the main wheels being to big the visual relationship between wheels, buffer beam, cylinders looks wrong so I will build another one and slightly shorten the centres (say 6 scale inches so as not to be really obvious) to get the balance right between those items.

 

A sort of suck and see approach with the aim to get the 'feel' right.

 

My sort of modelling....not for the purist I might add....but I find it fun.

 

[KNP]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Good work Kevin. Do the same with a slice behind the smokebox door and you'll have dealt with the most toy-like bits.

 

thanks

 

Still under investigation, the design committee has a meeting this afternoon to discuss this very issue and the ramifications of carrying out such work.

 

The saw is poised!

[Simond]

I do recall a story of a chap in a motor car asking directions to somewhere significant.

 

”aah”, says the local, “well, I wouldn’t be starting from here”.

 

 

[KNP]

True story.

Many years ago I looked after numerous Whitbread pubs in South Wales.

Being before the days of sat nav I used maps in a little red book series and though useful to get there finding actual places was difficult.

So we arrived in Merthyr Tydfil searching for a particular pub, couldn’t find it so stop to ask the way from a group of people at a bus stop.

Wound the window down and asked only to get this response.

Yes, said an elderly lady, I know where it is....

If you down the road here and turn left at my sisters house it just along there????

Very useful if you know where her sister lived...

Still makes me chuckle to think of!!!

[Mick Bonwick]

2 minutes ago, KNP said:

True story.

Many years ago I looked after numerous Whitbread pubs in South Wales.

Being before the days of sat nav I used maps in a little red book series and though useful to get there finding actual places was difficult.

So we arrived in Merthyr Tydfil searching for a particular pub, couldn’t find it so stop to ask the way from a group of people at a bus stop.

Wound the window down and asked only to get this response.

Yes, said an elderly lady, I know where it is....

If you down the road here and turn left at my sisters house it just along there????

Very useful if you know where her sister lived...

Still makes me chuckle to think of!!!

 

I know where that is! My father's cousin's neighbour had a holiday home just around the corner. Small world, isn't it?

[Neal Ball]

5 hours ago, KNP said:

 

 

......My sort of modelling....not for the purist I might add....but I find it fun.

 

 

But is exactly my kind of modelling...... I just knocked a rivet off!

 

3 hours ago, KNP said:

True story........

Yes, said an elderly lady, I know where it is....

If you down the road here and turn left at my sisters house it just along there???......

 

Sadly those sort of characters are becoming a think of the past.

 

In another 20+ years, you wont get an apocryphal story as it wont be contained on the latest iPhone.  (Might not even be 20 years)

[KNP]

Still checking some measurements around the front end of the loco in order to get it to look right.

As mentioned I have some drawings in my book on Halls that are dimensioned but not to scale.

To overcome this I have made a scale ruler just for this drawing and realised there might followers out there that don't know how to make one.

So just in case, here is how you can turn a drawing with dimensions, but to no known scale, into one that can be scaled by making your own ruler with just the use of a modellers ruler, paper and pencil.

 

Using the picture from the book, so all normal copyright rules apply here, I have put my scale ruler to it to show it is not to the dimension shown for the bogies axle centres.

 

 

To make that scale ruler find a known length, in this case the 7' for the bogie centres and mark on the paper

 

 

Then draw a line at around 45 degrees that is marked off to every foot (in this case) from your modellers ruler.

 

 

Join the two ends together

 

 

Then transfer the foot marks of the scaled line across to the actual line measured off the drawing.

Ensure these lines are parallel.

Mark the purpose made ruler to give scaled measurements.

 

 

 

Using a tick strip mark transfer these along the new ruler to increase it to the length you require

 

 

 

Next

I have coloured in every other one to simplify when measure - don't have to but always have for clarity.

Then using the tick mark an additional foot section before the zero to represent inches, here I have just divided in 3" sections due to size, anything under this is so small it is difficult to measure plus the modellers ruler is only in 3" sections anyway. 

 

So offer up to the piece you want to measure, in this case the distance between the rear bogie axle and axle of first main wheel 5'4" and you can see on the new ruler it is just over 5'3".

Not totally accurate but enough to get the general measurements right from that drawing.

 

 

Hope this is use.

 

So, if you have a drawing that either has dimensions on or has no dimensions indicated but does state a measurement to an item, say like a main driving wheel, then this can used in the same way as the starting point for the ruler.

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by KNP

[Neal Ball]

Nor seen a scale rule like that before Kevin - thank you

[KNP]

8 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Nor seen a scale rule like that before Kevin - thank you

 

I've had that ruler for years, it was made by Expo and has a date stamped on it for 2002.

I'd be lost without it!

[jcm@gwr]

19 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Nor seen a scale rule like that before Kevin - thank you

 

10 minutes ago, KNP said:

 

I've had that ruler for years, it was made by Expo and has a date stamped on it for 2002.

I'd be lost without it!

 

I think he meant the one you created!

[Neal Ball]

9 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

 

I think he meant the one you created!

 

LOL

 

I actually meant the metal one 

[jcm@gwr]

5 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

LOL

 

I actually meant the metal one 

 

Oh! I hadn't realised that people didn't know about them, 

I've got 2 of them, 7mm and 4mm, wouldn't (couldn't) be without them!

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, KNP said:

True story.

Many years ago I looked after numerous Whitbread pubs in South Wales.

Being before the days of sat nav I used maps in a little red book series and though useful to get there finding actual places was difficult.

So we arrived in Merthyr Tydfil searching for a particular pub, couldn’t find it so stop to ask the way from a group of people at a bus stop.

Wound the window down and asked only to get this response.

Yes, said an elderly lady, I know where it is....

If you down the road here and turn left at my sisters house it just along there????

Very useful if you know where her sister lived...

Still makes me chuckle to think of!!!

It's 1974 Bank Holiday Monday, hot and sunny.  The Johnster, complete with long hair and beard, is the guard on a 116 that has just arrived at Barry Island loaded to the gunnels with trippers from the Valleys who are now detraining while The Johnster changes the tail lamp to the other end.  The station staff have been expecting the onslaught and heroically locked themselves in the office, and The Johnster is trying his best to keep a low profile.  No chance.

 

'Oi, yew' she shouts.  She is massive, and a crowd of kids is orbiting within her gravitational pull, probably a whole Valley street's worth of 'em (mam, mam, can I 'ave ice cream, mam, can I 'ave candy floss, mam can I've chips, mam, Billy's pullin' my 'air, tell 'im mam...).  She rises above them like the mountain at the back of her house, eyes fixed on her victim, The Johnster.  'Oi, yew, wot times'a tren baack then'?  Now, I've relieved this set at Cardiff Central, and she could have changed on to it from any of the Valleys or even come down from Newport; how the **** do I know.  0-1 to woman mountain. 

 

The Johnster squares up to the woman mountain and speaks thus 'back where, love?'  He shoots, he scores; 1-1, take that woman mountain and don't mess with The Johnster.  She rallies instantly and goes directly on to the offensive, still ignoring the satellites (mam, can I go paggling, mam, I wantsa go ona shows, mam I wantsa san' cassel).  'Back 'ome of course', she retaliates, accompanied by a look which expresses more eloquently than any words her opinion that she is dealing with an idiot.  2-1 to her. OK, two can play at that game, missis, cop for this, love.  The Johnster is about to prove he's not an idiot (of course, in retrospect I can see the obvious flaw in this policy) and finish her off.

 

'Where's home then my lovely' (see how the iron fist is concealed in the velvet glove of compliment; if she was ever lovely it must have been back in the Silurian era). 2 all, it must be over now, and the elation of expected victory rises in me.  VINCEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRROOOOO....  She responds with a look of mingled contempt and bewilderment, wondering why The Johnster cannot see the obvious.  '63 Albion Street of course, where'd yew fink'.  3-2 to mountain woman, some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over, it is now!

 

Defeated and humiliated by the sheer force of her unassailable logic, I mumble something about 6 o'clock as there are returning excursions to all the valleys from Barry Island between 18.00 and 18.40, so they'll all be home for supper.  I still smile when I think about, then shudder.  Be afraid, be a very fraid, Johnster...

[Simond]

Why didn’t you tell her the time of the train back to your home?  It would have answered her question honestly, if unhelpfully.

 

then again she might have been on it with you...

 

atb

Simon

[Northroader]

Talking about directions from folk up the valleys, I was asking how to get to some place from the chargehand at Rhymney. Now, he’d come to BR from being a leccy at NCB, quite an ebullient, talkative guy, and, being Welsh, knowing that self improvement shouldn’t stop when you leave school. “Well,” he says, “you come up the road from Caerphilly, then when you reach the alluvial plateau...”

[KNP]

The works on Kneller Hall are ongoing!

but slower today as we have had the grandchildren staying over the weekend so they have tended to get in the way a bit...…!

 

So here she is in the eventual setting she will live.

Bogie fitted and dimensions altered to balance as the main wheels are at slightly the wrong centres as well, so I have had to have a bit of a creative license to get the balance right.

 

 

There are a few things wrong that I will probably have to live with that.

 

Now looking at the real thing and the model there have been suggestions that the boiler front needs reducing.

If I did that then starts to throw up all other sorts of other issues in relation to other measurements.

So these series of key dimensions where taken with some surprising results.

 

 

The most obvious one is C which the front of the boiler support will be brought forward a bit - not decided how much yet...

 

Not as bad I thought.

Edited October 27, 2019 by KNP

[KNP]

Back to something more traditional to finish the day.

 

4550 heading back home after delivery of Kneller Hall to the workshop

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by KNP

[KNP]

And finally.

Let Jimmy have the last....look of the day

 

[boxerbayrailway]

Wonderful layout Kevin.  I've just been browsing the 200+ pages and been getting a lot of ideas for my light railway.

One question,  I didn't see it mentioned anywhere,  what is the depth of your harbour set at ?   I'm trying to decide what an appropriate height would be for mine.

 

Again great railway,   I could look at the photos for hours.

Felix

[KNP]

More work on Kneller Hall.

Had one of those daft moments yesterday, made the handrail, bending and shaping around the boiler front, fitted only to realise I had used the too smaller gauge wire.

Once noticed it looked wrong so without batting an eyelid I ripped it all off again and restarted - luckily I hadn't glued it, was about to when I sat back to check it and then.....!

 

So here is the current state of play as at midday.

Note - body just placed on chassis hence high at cab end.

 

 

 

You will also note that I have bitten the bullet and cut the nameplate and the top part of the splasher off - it just didn't look right....

 

Started the process off filling the hole with plasticard as a base for some filler.

All set aside at the moment gluing.

 

I am trying to get some replacement motion as I noted Hornby spares do one I can adapt - X6628 Valve and Cylinder Gear but all my normal places are out of stock waiting for some to come.

Anyone out there know of where I can get a set from?

Thanks

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by KNP

[Simond]

Kevin

 

is it a little bit too high?

 

Answering my own question. Looked back at the “delivery” photos, and the buffers don’t line up, so I suspect both loco and tender are showing giraffe-like tendencies

 

atb

Simon

Edited October 29, 2019 by Simond

[A Murphy]

Kevin this is looking better already! I presume you have already tried Peter's Spares for valve gear?  Do 51L  haveex-Phoenix Hall valve gear that might suit? Could I ask where you got your lamp irons from?

 

Regards, 

 

Alastair M

Edited October 29, 2019 by A Murphy

[Mick Bonwick]

2 hours ago, KNP said:

 

Note - body just placed on chassis hence high at cab end.

 

 

1 hour ago, Simond said:

 

is it a little bit too high?

 

 

 

[KNP]

28 minutes ago, A Murphy said:

Kevin this is looking better already! I presume you have already tried Peter's Spares for valve gear?  Do 51L  haveex-Phoenix Hall valve gear that might suit? Could I ask where you got your lamp irons from?

 

Regards, 

 

Alastair M

 

Thanks

I am certainly feeling like I have not wasted my time but I do need to sort out that valve gear.

Yes, tried Peter's Spares and they e-mail back say waiting for stock, plus s few others.

51L is showing up on Peter's Spares site.

 

Lamp irons - mine came from Wizard Models and are these.

 

 

There are other suppliers/types out there but these sorted my needs.

 

Note

The lamps on the smoke box door and top of tender are made up of two ordinary brackets to give the cranked/vertical fixing effect - so you won't find them ready to go in that packet.

If you look careful you can see how I shortened one and stuck the second one on top.....