Little Muddle

[St Enodoc]

21 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

Dictionary definitions that I have seen have all stated that a locomotive and attached vehicles are considered to be a train. That does not mean that I have looked at every single available dictionary definition. Nor does it mean that the development or evolution of the English language has been recorded in all dictionaries.

 

That little devil Stu has obviously been here before and is inciting riots amongst Kevin's followers.

 

I still say, "No". If it's only a railcar then I would describe it as a railcar, not a train. Personal opinion.

 

A train can consist of any number of vehicles from one upwards. A light engine is a train, as far as operations are concerned - a Class G train in old money or a class 0 in new.

[KNP]

Amazing what debate a throw away remark can cause....love it, please don’t stop.

I’ll keep lobbing them in and you keep batting them back!!

[Stubby47]

It's either that, or concentrate on the SQL required to validate a calculated start of treatment date, or battle with LUA code to process incoming HL7 messages...

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

It's either that, or concentrate on the SQL required to validate a calculated start of treatment date, or battle with LUA code to process incoming HL7 messages...

 

 

 

 

You are Professor Stanley Unwin and I claim my five pounds.

[KNP]

10 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

It's either that, or concentrate on the SQL required to validate a calculated start of treatment date, or battle with LUA code to process incoming HL7 messages...

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly.......I think?

[MrWolf]

Oh gawd not this debate again!

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by MrWolf
Apologies SWMBO's friend, this photo of her went viral long before it appeared here!

[MrWolf]

4 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

 

Which, when considering said collections and this always utterly surprises me, is the completely opposite philosophy to that held by one's life partner.

 

In which case this Wolf (yes, my actual name and I have learned to make the most of it!) is one lucky dog. Although I have to put up with even more records /CDs, rusty bicycles, antique weapons, woodwind instruments and vintage designer clothes.

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

That little devil Stu has obviously been here before and is inciting riots amongst Kevin's followers.

 

I still say, "No". If it's only a railcar then I would describe it as a railcar, not a train. Personal opinion.

However, if it’s signalled by some form of token working (which LM will be) then it will be TRAIN entering section and TRAIN out of section.

I rest my case, having taken Mr Stubby’s bait.

:-)

Paul.

[MrWolf]

Here's one for you: Why is it that what we all knew as a RAILWAY station has become constantly referred to as a TRAIN station? When did that start? It's a pet hate of my other half and she's only 25, so it's not some grumpy old bloke thing. When she hears the phrase (or "train tracks") she usually responds with: "What are we? Six years old?!!"

 

Discuss.

[KNP]

18 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

However, if it’s signalled by some form of token working (which LM will be) then it will be TRAIN entering section and TRAIN out of section.

I rest my case, having taken Mr Stubby’s bait.

:-)

Paul.

It is indeed single line working using an electric train token

[KNP]

10 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Here's one for you: Why is it that what we all knew as a RAILWAY station has become constantly referred to as a TRAIN station? When did that start? It's a pet hate of my other half and she's only 25, so it's not some grumpy old bloke thing. When she hears the phrase (or "train tracks") she usually responds with: "What are we? Six years old?!!"

 

Discuss.

 

Americanism I do believe.....

It is a battle I have here with my grandchildren....

[KNP]

There have been three graduations to the main line here at Little Muddle Wagon Works.

 

First is A Ratio 12ton Ventilated Van with partition

 

 

Next is the Iron Mink 'A' van

 

 

and last a Copper Craft cattle wagon W5

 

 

and finally a group photo for the album

 

[Stubby47]

Lime wash in cattle wagons was ceased in 1927. LM is set in the 1930s.

 

Question - would Lime wash still be visible on an old, W5 (1902-1911) cattle wagon?  Discuss.

[KNP]

2 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Lime wash in cattle wagons was ceased in 1927. LM is set in the 1930s.

 

Question - would Lime wash still be visible on an old, W5 (1902-1911) cattle wagon?  Discuss.

It had a repaint...…?

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Philosophical debate time - can a single railcar be considered a 'train' ?  Discuss.

My online dictionary defines train in the railway sense as 'a self propelled connected group of rolling stock, so no.  Locomotives are considered rolling stock for this purpose presumably.  If, however , a single railcar is conveying tail traffic (this type can't), then yes, it is a train

 

6 hours ago, KNP said:

Only if it is a train of thought!

Ah, existentialism; I think therefore I am.  At least I think I am.  Can't prove it though, even to myself never mind anyone else.  

 

This way lies madness.

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

If it’s in a railway timetable, then yes! What other name could be used...... a bus? :-)

Hmm.  If it's in a public published timetable it's a service, not necessarily a train; Lufthansa have some internal flights in Germany that actually fly very low and follow railway lines on this basis. 

6 hours ago, Northroader said:

If it’s carrying a tail lamp, yes.

But light engines carry tail lamps, and they are not 'a self propelled connected group of rolling stock' assuming that the tender is part of the loco which I consider it is.  A signalman will however use the terms 'train on line', 'train out of section' and so on, and record it as a train in the box's record book.

 

'Light engines' is a misnomer anyway; what is meant is locomotives.  The engine is only the cylinders, pistons, valves and valve gear, and the motion, and even that doesn't include the coupling rods.  It doesn't include the frame, boiler/smokebox/firebox, running plate, wheels, brakes etc.  The proper name for the engine parts of a locomotive is a locomotive engine, to distinguish it from a marine engine or a fixed stationary engine working in a factory or mine, or a pumping engine.  A locomotive is according to my online dictionary, 'a self propelled vehicular engine', which muddies the water a bit, but I am pedantic about it and only use the word engine for the engine bits.

 

To summarise the whole discussion,  no.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Here's one for you: Why is it that what we all knew as a RAILWAY station has become constantly referred to as a TRAIN station? When did that start? It's a pet hate of my other half and she's only 25, so it's not some grumpy old bloke thing. When she hears the phrase (or "train tracks") she usually responds with: "What are we? Six years old?!!"

 

Discuss.

This might be better in the '50s/60s' thread on M,M,&M, but what the heck...  Seemed to start in the late 90s and I don't think it's an Americanism particularly; that would be more likely 'train depot'.  To be fair, in the modern world, there are hardly RAILWAY stations in the sense of being places where one could conduct business with the railway other than buying tickets and getting on or off trains, such as sending or collecting parcels, leaving luggage, lost property, general enquiries, arranging for goods to be picked up and delivered and so on.  Even booking tickets and reserving seats is not possible in most places.

 

In similar vein, when did Oil of Ulay become Oil of Olay?  Nobody consulted me about it!  And, back to stations, who gave permission for garages to become petrol stations?  What are occasional tables the rest of the time?  Who put the bop in the bop she bop she-bop?  

 

WE DEMAND ANSWERS!!!

 

 

[MrWolf]

As for the who put the bop question, crucially, who put the ram in the ramalamadingdong? If so, was the ram organically farmed by a couple of ex graphic designers?

 

As for TRAIN station, I'm sticking with it being a searing indictment of the state of the British education system, who state: "It doesn't matter if the words are spelt wrongly or used incorrectly as long as they get the message across."

 

Which is why you get such things as "were?" Instead of "where?" Or "there" instead of. "their". Such things are only an indicator of much greater issues. This country has truly gone to s@%# in the last 50 years. I wasn't around in the 50s/60s, so all I have seen is steady, inexorable decline. If you say anything, you get beaten with the "extremist" stick!

[Artless Bodger]

On 02/06/2020 at 01:01, MrWolf said:

You have another fan of proper creosote right here. I have for years been slightly confused also the idea that unleaded petrol is somehow safer and cleaner than traditional four star. Tetraethyl lead has been demonised, why? Because Joe dimwit KNOWS lead is bad. We've then removed the nasties from paint and aerosols etc. But it's fine to dump benzene butane toluene xylene et al into petroleum to up the octane (but not enough) and call it a green fuel. I have worked with benzene in particular and it's nasty stuff.

So I really don't see the big issue with creosote. Give it 20 years or so and "they" will probably be telling you that smoking is good for you. If it suits their purposes and makes them rich of course!

Agree on the unleaded petrol issue - we used to use Fuel B or make it ourselves - iso-octane and toluene mix - to test credit cards, ID cards etc. I did the COSHH evaluation and we decided female staff could not work with Fuel B in case they were expecting (must not ask!), as toluene poses risks to the unborn child. So all women of child bearing age were excluded from the lab when it was in use. Then manager said 'why not use unleaded petrol?' OK so get the MSDS to find - can contain up to 50% toluene. So can't use it at work in a fume hood, but can stand on a garage forecourt in hot weather watching the vapour pour out of your tank while filling up - crazy.

 

To me the smell of creosote means summer and Dad painting fences (we got to do it as kids, wearing Dad's old glasses as eye protection and one of Mum's old blouses to keep it off our clothes, as we were small enough to squeeze down behind the shed. Lovely smell! We've got some railway sleepers making a raised bed in our garden, and the recent hot weather making the creosote ooze has brought back memories of sitting on stations waiting for trains, smelling the warm tarry smell, Jeyes fluid in the bogs, and hearing the grind of traction motor gears as the 2HAPs pulled out. 

[KNP]

Railcar train thingy still proceeding...

 

 

Edited March 25 by KNP

[KNP]

Yep, its got a tail light so does that mean its a train?

 

 

Edited March 25 by KNP

[vaughan45]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

As for TRAIN station, I'm sticking with it being a searing indictment of the state of the British education system, who state: "It doesn't matter if the words are spelt wrongly or used incorrectly as long as they get the message across."

 

Probably all the fault of the 'Roads' lobby - you go to a Bus Station to catch a bus, therefore you must go to a Train Station to catch a train

[DonB]

But!  The driver is it the end with the tail lamp... Does he drive it in reverse so as not to confuse the signal man? Does operating with a token change things? These and other questions...........

Edited June 5, 2020 by DonB
spelin.

[Welchester]

40 minutes ago, vaughan45 said:

 

Probably all the fault of the 'Roads' lobby - you go to a Bus Station to catch a bus, therefore you must go to a Train Station to catch a train

 

And you go to a fire station...

[Ashley Bridge]

56 minutes ago, vaughan45 said:

 

Probably all the fault of the 'Roads' lobby - you go to a Bus Station to catch a bus, therefore you must go to a Train Station to catch a train

What is confusing is that half the clientele of a “petrol station” only go there to buy fags or milk.

B.A. Humbug

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Ashley Bridge said:

What is confusing is that half the clientele of a “petrol station” only go there to buy fags or milk.

B.A. Humbug

 

Or to microwave a Rustlers cheeseburger because they are totally baked and got the munchies.

 

They don't call them garages anymore because they don't fix cars, or sell parts, or brake fluid etc.

They're just a miniature Tesco that sells petrol.

 

A friend got a part time job to pay his way through university as a "parts advisor" at a major car parts and accessories outlet (Or Chav's toyshop as we called it) we would often go in and ask for stupid things like a radiator hose for a 1966 VW Beetle ( they were of course, air cooled) as he freely admitted he'd never so much as sat behind the wheel of a car, let alone have any idea what made cars work.