Little Muddle

[Welchester]

22 hours ago, Bogie said:

Do not want to create a constitutional crisis, but  what about those of us who do not recognise Edward VIII as a King?

 

I must say I also do not recognise King Stephen either (having just read a biography of Matilda).

 

Once you start not recognising kings, it's a short step to the lunacy of seeing Duke Francis II of Bavaria as the True King.

 

In a similar vein, here is the tomb of King James III of England in St Peter's Rome.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

38 minutes ago, Bishop of Welchester said:

 

Once you start not recognising kings, it's a short step to the lunacy of seeing Duke Francis II of Bavaria as the True King.

 

In a similar vein, here is the tomb of King James III of England in St Peter's Rome.

 

 

An early recognition of Great Britain as a state after the Act of Union. But if "James III" had held the crown, would the Act of Union had happened? He might still have been James VIII of Scotland. 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

An early recognition of Great Britain as a state after the Act of Union. But if "James III" had held the crown, would the Act of Union had happened? He might still have been James VIII of Scotland. 

For a very interesting and, in my opinion, balanced account of the relationship between England and Scotland from Robert the Bruce's time onwards, I recommend "The Thistle and the Crown" by Allan Massie.

[Worsdell forever]

3 hours ago, KNP said:

You ought to have seen it before the picture!!!!

I had to help tidy it up when we saw the photographer arrive.....

 

 

Fence didn't fall down while you were away?

[The Johnster]

On 14/04/2020 at 11:16, Crichel Down said:

For an example of a non-auto loco working with an autotrailer, see the Watlington Branch.  A trailer was used in order to access the low (track level) halt platforms on the branch, but the trailer had to be run round at each end of the journey, at Watlington and at Princes Risborough .  Pannier tanks [2021, later 5700/8750] were routinely allocated to the Watlington branch, and were photographed hauling (but never propelling) the branch trailer .

 

There were also examples of auto-fitted tanks sometimes propelling  an autotrailer without the auto-gear connected up.  The driver would use bell signals to tell the fireman to  close the regulator and apply the brake.  The inevitable was bound to happen eventually, for example at Clevedon, where the autotrailer collided with the buffer stops, and the crew were hauled up before the Divisional Superintendent in Bristol for what was, on any view,  serious misconduct.  

Agree; very serious and a clear breach of the rules.  Up to two trailers can be coupled behind and/or in front of the loco, which means that with 70 footers the driver was over 150' away from the fireman, which is why auto trailers had warning bells.  In an emergency the driver could apply the vacuum brake on the trailer(s) with his setter, in fact the only brake control he had in the trailer cab, but with the regulator not being promptly closed because the auto gear was not connected, stopping would be

 compromised.  

 

 

On 14/04/2020 at 18:52, 88D said:

The fireman on an autotrailer engine had to be higher grade than normal, I believe. So could the non-availability of such a bloke mean that the loco had to work in normal mode? 

Auto firing work was in the passed fireman links, as the fireman had to manage jobs on the loco not within his normal remit, such as the reverser and cut off, so had to have passed out on driving rules to be able to do this without the driver's supervision; he is, in fact, in charge of the loco when the driver is in the trailer cab and must be qualified to be so.  I am not aware that it was a requirement that the train had to be worked 'normally' and the loco run around to haul the trailers if a passed man was not available; Stationmaster to the topic, please, paging Stationmaster Mike...

 

Auto work is associated in the mind of many a modeller with bucolic rural backwaters, but consider the case of a 4575 on a Cardiff Bute Road-Coryton working, sandwiched between trailers with the fireman alone on the loco in both directions, and having to fire and manage the boiler on a very smartly timed run up the Rhymney Main Line to Heath Jc. in order to keep out of the way of the other traffic on this very busy stretch, followed by stop-start every few hundred yards on the branch, where he has to observe platform activity as well.  Bucolic this is not...

 

Auto work requires specific skillsets not needed in normal loco work, which is unpredictable at the best of times on a steam loco, and a high level of understanding between driver and fireman is needed; the fireman has to second guess the driver who is not there to correct him if he gets it wrong, and the driver must anticipate the need for braking as the setter is a crude implement and you don't want to throw the passengers around more than needed; in practice the fireman often applies the vacuum brake from the loco for a smoother stop; you don't want the driver opening the regulator because he's shut off steam too soon and is going to stop short while this is going on.  It is the nature of auto work that token exchange is needed as well, so the driver has to cross the cab and might not be where the fireman expects him to be and unable to respond immediately to bell signals.  The driver's absence from the footplate means he is unaware of the steam pressure and more likely to run out of steam as a result while the fireman is unaware that steam is going to be needed shortly, as featured on the Dart Valley on tv recently.

[KNP]

I know.....

I know these are two versions of monochrome of the same picture but I rather liked them so here they are

 

 

 

 

 

Don't worry back to colour as I have run out of monochrome pictures!!!

Edited March 24 by KNP

[KNP]

And for those of you missing colour....

Here is small Prairie 4550 waiting to depart Encombe Town station with the B set.

 

 

Edited March 24 by KNP

[Nick C]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Agree; very serious and a clear breach of the rules.  Up to two trailers can be coupled behind and/or in front of the loco, which means that with 70 footers the driver was over 150' away from the fireman, which is why auto trailers had warning bells.  In an emergency the driver could apply the vacuum brake on the trailer(s) with his setter, in fact the only brake control he had in the trailer cab, but with the regulator not being promptly closed because the auto gear was not connected, stopping would be

 compromised.  

 

 

Auto firing work was in the passed fireman links, as the fireman had to manage jobs on the loco not within his normal remit, such as the reverser and cut off, so had to have passed out on driving rules to be able to do this without the driver's supervision; he is, in fact, in charge of the loco when the driver is in the trailer cab and must be qualified to be so.  I am not aware that it was a requirement that the train had to be worked 'normally' and the loco run around to haul the trailers if a passed man was not available; Stationmaster to the topic, please, paging Stationmaster Mike...

 

Auto work is associated in the mind of many a modeller with bucolic rural backwaters, but consider the case of a 4575 on a Cardiff Bute Road-Coryton working, sandwiched between trailers with the fireman alone on the loco in both directions, and having to fire and manage the boiler on a very smartly timed run up the Rhymney Main Line to Heath Jc. in order to keep out of the way of the other traffic on this very busy stretch, followed by stop-start every few hundred yards on the branch, where he has to observe platform activity as well.  Bucolic this is not...

 

Auto work requires specific skillsets not needed in normal loco work, which is unpredictable at the best of times on a steam loco, and a high level of understanding between driver and fireman is needed; the fireman has to second guess the driver who is not there to correct him if he gets it wrong, and the driver must anticipate the need for braking as the setter is a crude implement and you don't want to throw the passengers around more than needed; in practice the fireman often applies the vacuum brake from the loco for a smoother stop; you don't want the driver opening the regulator because he's shut off steam too soon and is going to stop short while this is going on.  It is the nature of auto work that token exchange is needed as well, so the driver has to cross the cab and might not be where the fireman expects him to be and unable to respond immediately to bell signals.  The driver's absence from the footplate means he is unaware of the steam pressure and more likely to run out of steam as a result while the fireman is unaware that steam is going to be needed shortly, as featured on the Dart Valley on tv recently.

 

I've certainly heard stories of PP trains on the Isle of Wight running without the hoses connected (the SR air-operated system), and the fireman effectively driving the whole way. 

 

Token exchange shouldn't be a problem though, the Fireman ought to know the road well enough to know when the driver is going to need to exchange tokens. I would also expect that many such branches would work OES anyway, so they might just keep the staff on the loco the whole time...

[The Johnster]

Hmm. OES is back to the bucolic rural idyll again, and this is not what the majority of GW auto work was, though certainly some of it was.  intensely worked sharply timed heavily loaded suburban trains of up to 4 trailers sandwiching the loco were a feature out of Paddington, in the Bristol and Plymouth areas, and, post 1953, South Wales.  A lot can happen in a very short time on a footplate with only a fireman to deal with it, and if he is using an injector, or adjusting the reverser, he may not be able to do what the driver two trailers away wants him to do at the exactly appropriate moment.  Even on bucolic OES branches, propelling without connecting the system, be it mechanical, air, or vacuum, was a very serious breach of rules for a very good reason.  

 

It happened, of course, and so did mishaps as a result of it.

 

[KNP]

4550 continues on its merry way with the B set

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by KNP

[KNP]

Forgot loco lamp!!!!

There will be a batch of pictures coming through with that omission.

It has now been rectified.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Still great shots Kevin.

[KNP]

Next project built in about 4 hrs......well that didn’t take long did it,  now to let the glue fully cure before for painting.

 

Ratio bogie bolster A (Macaw G)

 

No hooks supplied and no mention of them in the instructions, luckily I have a pack of them.

 

Kit instructions dated 3rd Jan 1990.

 

Need to decide on load, supplied steel beams are to thick....might do tree trunks!!

 

One of the sheep having a good look!

 

 

Edited March 24 by KNP

[gwrrob]

I used Plastruct I beams on mine and they do a range of different sizes. I'm looking forward to seeing how you weather the deck Kev.

[88D]

42 minutes ago, KNP said:

Next project built in about 4 hrs......well that didn’t take long did it,  now to let the glue fully cure before for painting.

 

Ratio bogie bolster A (Macaw G)

 

 

No hooks supplied and no mention of them in the instructions, luckily I have a pack of them.

 

Kit instructions dated 3rd Jan 1990.

 

Need to decide on load, supplied steel beams are to thick....might do tree trunks!!

 

One of the sheep having a good look!

 

 

You must have a Leylandii twig lying around somewhere, hopefully? in your garden so that you don’t need to overcome self-isolation and climb over a fence.

[KNP]

34 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

I used Plastruct I beams on mine and they do a range of different sizes. I'm looking forward to seeing how you weather the deck Kev.

I shall use the same timber painting technique as I did on the lorry, so hopefully it will have the same result, though sometimes that’s not always the case!!!

 

[KNP]

21 minutes ago, 88D said:

You must have a Leylandii twig lying around somewhere, hopefully? in your garden so that you don’t need to overcome self-isolation and climb over a fence.

I do have plenty of sagebrush bits and pieces that I will be able to use.

No current plans to climb any fences....

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by KNP

[Siberian Snooper]

2 hours ago, KNP said:

I do have plenty of sagebrush bits and pieces that I will be able to use.

No current plans to climb any fences....

 

 

To busy leaning on the one by the shed!

 

 

 

 

[KNP]

Another day and the same train combo but now heading off the main down the branch....

 

 

Edited March 24 by KNP

[colin penfold]

Best. Photo. Ever.

[gwrrob]

59 minutes ago, colin penfold said:

Best. Photo. Ever.

 

Shame it's not a filthy mogul.

[Worsdell forever]

56 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Shame it's not a filthy mogul.

 

Please, this is a family forum...

 

[KNP]

2 hours ago, colin penfold said:

Best. Photo. Ever.

 

Thanks

 

I think it worked so well because I slightly blurred the image and increased the contrast to give a washed out look.

Plus a heavy crop was involved

Pity I missed off the lamp though!!!! 

Edited April 19, 2020 by KNP

[KNP]

Off you go now, around the bend with you....

see you later.

 

 

 

Lamp on rear!

Shows off how nice these Modelu lamps are.

Edited March 24 by KNP

[KNP]

Now this the plan...

 

Camera sitting on the main line looking back out of the layout towards Middle Farm.

Remote controlled from the iPhone....

Catch Prairie 4550 steaming past from an unusual angle....

 

Well it did work at the second attempt!

 

 

 

This was the first attempt catching some plonker using the iPhone to control the camera but failing to spot they where in the picture......

 

 

Edited March 24 by KNP