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DJM N gauge Crowdfunded King Class Steam Loco has started


DJM Dave
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He cannot come up with news every few weeks. These projects take at least a few months between steps.

 

On the other hand, the marketing effort seems a little low. Unless you know DJM or the RMweb, you are not likely to hear about the project.

 

Maybe his next show, a few weeks away will bring some news and/or make some additional people aware.

Dave advertises regularly in the mags, so everyone should be well aware of his products and plans.

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Dave advertises regularly in the mags, so everyone should be well aware of his products and plans.

Dave has been attending shows (photos have peen posted) and has been anticipating magazine coverage, which is typically unreliable and has a three month lead, as his promotion methods.  Without paying out large amounts for advertising he really does not have many alternatives.  Top this with the amount of deliberate bating he gets by a few Trolls (fortunately now subsided) when he does post you can understand his reluctance.

 

I always refer back to the Troll post last year on the NGF forum saying his class 14 was going to be released by Dapol.

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Maybe so, but there will be those who expressed an interest in good faith, but have experienced cold feet over the last few months. People would be far more comfortable 'investing' where there is a track record of delivery. Thus far it has been a case of 'Trust me, I know what I am doing'. People have done just that, but the questions are now 'Do you know what you are doing?'.

 

As I have said before on another thread, for this crowd funding approach to work, there has to be trust. We can rage at the moon as much as we like, but more people will drop out unless they receive genuine reassurance this is going to work.

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Hi,

As soon as Dave initiated the current system of deposits I have been perfectly comfortable to immediately pay initial deposits for two Kings, given his history in his time with Dapol products and subsequently producing items under his own business in OO I continue to be entirely confident that he does indeed know what he is doing.

I have seen nothing of any substansive merit for me to have any doubts about what he is trying to achieve or his ability to bring it to a conclusion on a par with the current standards expected.

 

Regards, Gerry.

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Dave advertises regularly in the mags, so everyone should be well aware of his products and plans.

 

Does he? I don't recall seeing any DJM advertisements in the commercial monthlies and according to their advertisers indexes there's none in the current issues of the 'Railway Modeller' and 'Model Rail'. And he's never taken an ad in the 'N Gauge Journal' which would probably get seen/read by as many N gauge modellers/enthusiast as any commercial monthly does, as well as being cheaper.

 

As an additional promotional effort he could send regular press releases/updates to the publishers. I did receive one some time ago but it didn't contain anything substantive or new information additional to that known earlier last year.

 

I'm sure with a bit more marketing effort DJM projects could get a higher profile and more people signed up.

 

G.

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Does he? I don't recall seeing any DJM advertisements in the commercial monthlies and according to their advertisers indexes there's none in the current issues of the 'Railway Modeller' and 'Model Rail'. And he's never taken an ad in the 'N Gauge Journal' which would probably get seen/read by as many N gauge modellers/enthusiast as any commercial monthly does, as well as being cheaper.

 

As an additional promotional effort he could send regular press releases/updates to the publishers. I did receive one some time ago but it didn't contain anything substantive or new information additional to that known earlier last year.

 

I'm sure with a bit more marketing effort DJM projects could get a higher profile and more people signed up.

 

G.

 

There has however been an ad in both the January and February issues of BRM - but it is for a GWR 63XX mogul.  As far as the  N gauge 'King' is concerned his website states  'Pre-order book closes once model goes to tooling in late August/early September 2018 ' so anyone looking there now would get the message that they can no longer place an order and the 'news' item would not disabuse them of that impression.  Clearly if your shop window is a website it needs to be kept up to date but equally in the case of the 'King' it implies that the project is proceeding and tooling is underway, and the 'news' section states that customers would receive an update in the first week of this year - presumably about progress with tooling?

 

Press releases to the magazines are a good idea although they only make sense if there is anything new to report and there can be a time lag with editorial material depending on available space.  Once potential customers are aware of your existence the website and customer emails are probably the most effective means of communication.

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As far as the  N gauge 'King' is concerned his website states  'Pre-order book closes once model goes to tooling in late August/early September 2018 ' so anyone looking there now would get the message that they can no longer place an order and the 'news' item would not disabuse them of that impression.  

 

Unfortunately I don't think that information is correct. Consequently people will either not be aware that they can still order the King (although I think the add to basket/order facility does work) or, knowing otherwise (that it hasn't gone to tooling last year) will not bother with seeking up-to-date information from the website. Such a shame.

 

The big issue is that potential customers need to be made aware of DJM's product/project range and directed to look at the website (unless they stumble across it) and that means some form of marketing is necessary.

 

G

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Dave has been attending shows (photos have peen posted) and has been anticipating magazine coverage, which is typically unreliable and has a three month lead, as his promotion methods.  Without paying out large amounts for advertising he really does not have many alternatives.  Top this with the amount of deliberate bating he gets by a few Trolls (fortunately now subsided) when he does post you can understand his reluctance.

 

I always refer back to the Troll post last year on the NGF forum saying his class 14 was going to be released by Dapol.

 

Class 17 (I know - pedant!).

 

Roy

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Dave advertises regularly in the mags, so everyone should be well aware of his products and plans.

I'm sure that I can't be the only one who can read a mag while ignoring most of the adverts?

I reckon that the internet can make you immune to them after a while, being overloaded with the damned things.

 

Dave

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I always refer back to the Troll post last year on the NGF forum saying his class 14 was going to be released by Dapol.

 

In this hobby, Trolls can be easily refuted. I remember last year someone saying Dapol would have serious delays as their factory had closed down - vaguely linked to the true story that one manufacturer had indeed shut down. But this was quickly refuted as Dapol did not use the concerned factory.

 

It gets a bit grey/confusing when people have issues though such as Locomotions Stirling Single delivery issues. But I will say that the people behind these companies are honest enough to get it addressed accordingly and probably just swamped by events; 

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Dave has designed some great N gauge models in the past while at Dapol.  I don't think he is  great at web site management.

 

The facts relating to the king as I understand things:-

1. Dave announced he wanted to crowdfund a king

2. After quite a while there were sufficient people who had committed by their actions on the DJM website to pay 50% of the price of the proposed king up front in order to fund the tooling cost. 

3. When this point was reached Dave invested his time in designing what looks like a brilliant model.

4. After many months of work on the design Dave was happy for tooling to start and so asked those who had promised to fund the tooling to fulfil their side of the deal.

5. A significant number of people have backed out when it came to parting with cash. It would have been much better for all of us if these people hadn't bothered to say they would support this project in the first place.

 

I still hope sufficient people will be found to fund this but I am not confident. I don't know Dave at all but it does seem that there have been a number of timewasters committing to things they weren't really committed to.

 

DJ Models have a stand booked at the Stafford Exhibition on 2nd & 3rd February so maybe more information will become available then.

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Dave has designed some great N gauge models in the past while at Dapol.  I don't think he is  great at web site management.

 

The facts relating to the king as I understand things:-

1. Dave announced he wanted to crowdfund a king

2. After quite a while there were sufficient people who had committed by their actions on the DJM website to pay 50% of the price of the proposed king up front in order to fund the tooling cost. 

3. When this point was reached Dave invested his time in designing what looks like a brilliant model.

4. After many months of work on the design Dave was happy for tooling to start and so asked those who had promised to fund the tooling to fulfil their side of the deal.

5. A significant number of people have backed out when it came to parting with cash. It would have been much better for all of us if these people hadn't bothered to say they would support this project in the first place.

 

I still hope sufficient people will be found to fund this but I am not confident. I don't know Dave at all but it does seem that there have been a number of timewasters committing to things they weren't really committed to.

 

DJ Models have a stand booked at the Stafford Exhibition on 2nd & 3rd February so maybe more information will become available then.

 

That is an argument to keep marketing going, to increase the safety margin over potential drop outs. It could be some people are interested in the project per-se but are waiting before making a purchase. I'm interested in KS GT3 but have not signed up for their EOI as I have no interest at this time to make a purchase. Some doubtless will sign up thinking that they are just commiting to a news letter. I have clicked "like" and "follow" on KS GT3 facebook page but would guess that they don't consider that as an order and expect me to pay up a lump when it goes live (or at least I hope they don't see it like that).

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Be great to see - Yes the advertising seems low, but I suspect crowd funding projects need to get to a certain tipping point when they become self advertising and that's not achieved yet. I'll be honest I checked the web and though I'd missed the boat - be nice if there was a little bit more regular updates to how life is at DJ models if upfront non refundable cash is required.

It seems to be the same though from a number of small suppliers that have our big dreams in their hands - British Finescale's website is miles out of date too !! 

Without going too off subject, it is a matter that I think needs to be addressed, many hobbies that are doing amazingly well are doing so because some folks within have managed to harness modern media really well. Can't believe my boys watch live streams of fantasy card games !!!!!   It's not just about digital versions of magazines, its a whole media buzz they create from sponsorship, branding, quality of production, frequency of news. Maybe the fan base just isn't big enough for all that,  but please keep those websites unto date at the very least.

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Yes, you're right, just pulled up the newsletter again and re-read, although it does say further down that "So the basic process of tooling YOUR king model has started". 

 

Tom.  

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Dave has been attending shows (photos have peen posted) and has been anticipating magazine coverage, which is typically unreliable and has a three month lead, as his promotion methods.  Without paying out large amounts for advertising he really does not have many alternatives.  Top this with the amount of deliberate bating he gets by a few Trolls (fortunately now subsided) when he does post you can understand his reluctance.

 

I always refer back to the Troll post last year on the NGF forum saying his class 14 was going to be released by Dapol.

The 17 exists, it’s been seen as an EP in a video.

It is acknowledged there was an issue with the old factory whether that effects all toolings (71, J94 etc) or just the 17, is unknown, though the 92 CAD was suggested as affected.

But the tooling is out there, somewhere, presumably in the capable hands of someone who knows it’s worth and what to do with it.

If DJ doesn’t make a 17, eventually it could possibly resurface under another name.

Time will reveal if and how it gets resolved, but I doubt it will have been simply binned.

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The 17 exists, it’s been seen as an EP in a video.

It is acknowledged there was an issue with the old factory whether that effects all toolings (71, J94 etc) or just the 17, is unknown, though the 92 CAD was suggested as affected.

But the tooling is out there, somewhere, presumably in the capable hands of someone who knows it’s worth and what to do with it.

If DJ doesn’t make a 17, eventually it could possibly resurface under another name.

Time will reveal if and how it gets resolved, but I doubt it will have been simply binned.

 

Currently there is a factory in China holding all these toolings. Dave probably cannot easily get them out the factory without a lot of money but equally the factory cannot exactly start making models using them again because the Market itself knows they DJM owned intellectual property which makes finding a UK partner difficult to do and customers even harder still.  The locos made by them are useless in any other country.

 

To be used by someone else, the property would have to move from DJM to another party either through purchase or a long court case that would have to be seen as legit in both countries.

Or alternatively a UK representive could negociate a situation whereby they sell the goods that the factory finanances and produces and a loyalty is paid to DJM for using his property. I fancy a challenge but maybe not this one.

 

Of course maybe the factory and Dave will make peace because it is mutally beneficial.

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Currently there is a factory in China holding all these toolings. Dave probably cannot easily get them out the factory without a lot of money but equally the factory cannot exactly start making models using them again because the Market itself knows they DJM owned intellectual property which makes finding a UK partner difficult to do and customers even harder still.  The locos made by them are useless in any other country.

 

To be used by someone else, the property would have to move from DJM to another party either through purchase or a long court case that would have to be seen as legit in both countries.

Or alternatively a UK representive could negociate a situation whereby they sell the goods that the factory finanances and produces and a loyalty is paid to DJM for using his property. I fancy a challenge but maybe not this one.

 

Of course maybe the factory and Dave will make peace because it is mutally beneficial.

 

 

There is a lot of supposition in the post above as to the ownership of the tooling and rights to its use.  

 

Problems in business always come down to just one issue,  Money.   The post above has painted the factory in a negative light, when it could actually be that work has not been paid for. If it were those circumstances then the factory will retain ownership.

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The game in China is.

 

Thank you for paying up front for the work we quoted for.

 

We have completed the work, however it has cost us more than we quoted. 

 

We were not obliged to tell you this or ask your approval under Chinese contract law.

 

Under China's contract law we are entitled to surcharge you for the extra work and we are not prepared to release anything until you pay the surcharge.

 

You can take legal action but you will loose in a Chinese court of law.

 

There is no legal limit to the amount they can surcharge and it generally varies based on how desperate they believe the customer is.

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The game in China is.

 

Thank you for paying up front for the work we quoted for.

 

We have completed the work, however it has cost us more than we quoted. 

 

We were not obliged to tell you this or ask your approval under Chinese contract law.

 

Under China's contract law we are entitled to surcharge you for the extra work and we are not prepared to release anything until you pay the surcharge.

 

You can take legal action but you will loose in a Chinese court of law.

 

There is no legal limit to the amount they can surcharge and it generally varies based on how desperate they believe the customer is.

 

 

Is this based on experience or hearsay ?

 

I now of 2 people who trade in China and they have less problems there than here.

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