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DJM N gauge Crowdfunded King Class Steam Loco has started


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2 minutes ago, Snowwolflair said:

 

Unfortunately those chundering from a sedentary position would claim he was failing to deliver again if he cuts back on anything. 

 

His best move is to not promise more until he delivers the Class 92 and the King.

 

Unfortunately he is in an unfortunate position in terms of perception entirely as a result of his own words and performance. Not helped by some ill considered interventions trying to offload blame to nefarious Chinese factories etc. 

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The problem with the factory accusations is that we have only ever heard one side of the story. It is possible that what we have been told byDJ is correct, it is also possible that the factory is the victim of entirely unfounded accusations. Or it may be that neither party acted entirely correctly. We just don't know. 

 

I have done a lot of work with Chinese engine builders and ship yards and much more work for shipowners building ships in China. I saw no bad practices I didn't see anywhere else (including in our own country and in Europe) and for the most part the Chinese were punctilious in meeting contractual obligations. I find something unpleasant about the propensity of some to accept allegations about Chinese factories based on an assumption that a UK based business must be more trust worthy than one in China. 

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7 minutes ago, Snowwolflair said:

 

I do agree and particularly for large value contracts for ships and the like where the level of scrutiny by banks, government trade bodies and the accountability of public companies holds all business transactions to closer scrutiny regardless of international location.

 

However, whether its a tradesman in the UK who takes cash to avoid VAT or a Chinese factory not abiding by a contract as they know the courts in China will always side with the Chinese business there are always dodges to make more money,

 

Business in different parts of the world have different norms and if you are not wise to them you get caught.

 

Frankly I am not basing this on DJ's factory interaction as no one knows what went on, I can only relate what I found personally doing deals in China (and the rest of the world) with small and medium sized subcontract manufacturers.  To be fair I have experienced different but similar problems in various parts of the word.  Everyone squeezes extra margin out of any deal, I have just found by experience that businesses in China are more practised in it.

 

 

All I will say is that in the past couple of weeks I have received two models - newly introduced and very recently imported from China - which I understand were made by that factory for another UK customer.  I also undetstand that UK customer might not be alone in the UK  market in receiving models from that particular factory.

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It is never easy to do business in a foreign country. The lesson that many have learned, e.g. Jason Shron (Rapido), is that to work with Chinese factories you need to have someone very good working there for you full-time. That's not really practicable for a one-man operation.

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Nothing to do with this case, but as an observation a verbal agreement is still legally enforcible under English law and with a few exceptions is considered to be a contract just like a written agreement. Clearly disputes become messy but it I have both requested and performed work based on verbal agreements in order to meet schedules and never had any issues. That said both parties were aware of the probable fall out of not honouring the agreements. 

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Whatever the legal ins and outs of previous projects, I am glad to see that the King has made it over the line. This is the first crowd-funded project I have been really interested in as I love all things Great Western.

 

I seriously hope that a successful delivery of the King will result in a pick-up of orders for some of Dave's other projects like the Mogul.

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On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 11:51, Joseph_Pestell said:

It is never easy to do business in a foreign country. The lesson that many have learned, e.g. Jason Shron (Rapido), is that to work with Chinese factories you need to have someone very good working there for you full-time. That's not really practicable for a one-man operation.

 

They also need to have a fluent Mandarin speaker.  One major European customer got a batch of poor steel and complained - to be told that the customer's  metallurgist didn't know what she was talking about.  Unfortunately said young metallurgist (the niece of a late friend of mine) not only knew what she was talking about, but gave the supplier what for in fluent Mandarin with appropriate put downs and insults.  When the supplier's head office heard about it this supplier could not do enough to put things right, and there was never a sub-standard or late shipment after that....

 

Les

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3 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

So which one of the Digitrains King George V is suitable for 1970's preserved running? I'm thinking it's the BR green with an early emblem but I thought I'd better check before ordering!

Cheers Colin

Very difficult to tell from their illustrations and comments as the illustrations don't bear out Digitrains' descriptions of the various models.  6000 as preserved is in early crest livery and has a double chimney but the Digitrains illustration shows a single chimney and what appear to be original pattern outside steam pipes.  But then equally the late crest version is also shown with a single chimney so I presume the correct detailed images have not been used to match the descriptions - or at least one of the models  (late crest) won't be accurate for the livery it is carrying.

 

Probably best to check with Digitrains as they might well have just used stock images and not appropriate ones

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Digitrains is asking GBP250 for sound versions which is a GBP115 premium over the DJM early bird price - slightly over the odds if it's a plug and play sound install, but given their expertise one would expect the highest quality original sound recording and configuration. Look forward to hearing more about that.

 

It does seem that they are taking payment in full up front rather than charging the card on delivery so that's a minus, but on the other hand they are an established retail business and they aren't suggesting that customer monies are at risk if the project fails.

 

I suspect my order will be going via them once we get to EP stage.

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10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

They also need to have a fluent Mandarin speaker.  One major European customer got a batch of poor steel and complained - to be told that the customer's  metallurgist didn't know what she was talking about.  Unfortunately said young metallurgist (the niece of a late friend of mine) not only knew what she was talking about, but gave the supplier what for in fluent Mandarin with appropriate put downs and insults.  When the supplier's head office heard about it this supplier could not do enough to put things right, and there was never a sub-standard or late shipment after that....

 

Les

 

A nice story which validates my point. By being "good", I was including the basic requirement of being fluent in their language.

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9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Very difficult to tell from their illustrations and comments as the illustrations don't bear out Digitrains' descriptions of the various models.  6000 as preserved is in early crest livery and has a double chimney but the Digitrains illustration shows a single chimney and what appear to be original pattern outside steam pipes.  But then equally the late crest version is also shown with a single chimney so I presume the correct detailed images have not been used to match the descriptions - or at least one of the models  (late crest) won't be accurate for the livery it is carrying.

 

Probably best to check with Digitrains as they might well have just used stock images and not appropriate ones

Thanks for that, I'll ring them and see if I can get them to clarify the descriptions.

Cheers Colin

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13 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said:

So which one of the Digitrains King George V is suitable for 1970's preserved running? I'm thinking it's the BR green with an early emblem but I thought I'd better check before ordering!

 

Almost certainly the Early Crest version. KGV received the double chimney while still with the early crest in the 1950s. If you compare the image below with railtour condition in the 70s, they are very close. The only discrepancy I can think of is that in the early 70s, KGV had the late pattern buffer stocks but you would really have to squint hard to notice this on an N gauge model. ;)

 

1956

watermark_no.php?id=510&file_name=6000.j

 

1971

29424489795_4fe3629809_b.jpg

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1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

Almost certainly the Early Crest version. KGV received the double chimney while still with the early crest in the 1950s. If you compare the image below with railtour condition in the 70s, they are very close. The only discrepancy I can think of is that in the early 70s, KGV had the late pattern buffer stocks but you would really have to squint hard to notice this on an N gauge model. ;)

 

1956

watermark_no.php?id=510&file_name=6000.j

 

1971

29424489795_4fe3629809_b.jpg

 

Plenty of contextual detail in this wonderful shot as well!

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My reading of the Digitrains site is that there will be 50 of each of the four versions - there are 50 "in stock" on the "shirtbutton" page and less on the other pages.

 

Cheers,

Dave

Edited by Dave Searle
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9 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Digitrains is asking GBP250 for sound versions which is a GBP115 premium over the DJM early bird price - slightly over the odds if it's a plug and play sound install, but given their expertise one would expect the highest quality original sound recording and configuration. Look forward to hearing more about that.

 

It does seem that they are taking payment in full up front rather than charging the card on delivery so that's a minus, but on the other hand they are an established retail business and they aren't suggesting that customer monies are at risk if the project fails.

 

I suspect my order will be going via them once we get to EP stage.

 

The sound decoder they will be using https://www.digitrains.co.uk/sound-decoder-next-18-20x9-5x3.html is priced at £99 so that only leaves £16 for the fitting as presumably it will be done in house, can't see much of a profit on these for them at those prices. Still great news for those who ordered the Kings that it will go ahead, I have 2 on order but may yet order a Digi trains sound king as well

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2 hours ago, Dave Searle said:

My reading of the Digitrains site is that there will be 50 of each of the four versions - there are 50 "in stock" on the "shirtbutton" page and less on the other pages.

 

Cheers,

Dave

 

They are showing in the region of 195 now - so guessing its 200 of each

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Got one King on order direct but the idea of a sound fitted KGV is tempting even though sound is not a priority (put off by all those idling diesels at volume 11 at exhibitions).

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1 hour ago, Ed-farms said:

 

They are showing in the region of 195 now - so guessing its 200 of each

Can't imagine they have 200 of each, that would be a massive risk in N gauge - it does look that way but I wonder if they have split their page in some way so it is showing sold against a grand total.

 

14 sold of 200 looks a lot better than 14 sold of 800.

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4 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Plenty of contextual detail in this wonderful shot as well!

And a 100% historic view now as very little of what can be seen in that picture is still there - just some of the buildings on the left.  Where the 'King' is standing is now a dual carriageway.

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As an aside.

When KG5 was taken to America in 1927 my grandfather was the ships engineer on the S.S. Chicago City that took her there. He had served a 7 year apprenticeship as a steam engineer at Swindon works. Out of his time he moved to Bristol joining the Merchant Navy. Two of his sons, one being my Father, followed him into the M.N.

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Glad to see this one has gotten over the line, looking forward to a blue king, hopefully once it's released the 63xx will gain some momentum, fingers crossed 

 

Regarding the sound I can't remember now but has space been left to allow sound to be fitted by the buyer if they wish? 

 

All the best 

Matt

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22 minutes ago, Tomsontour said:

Regarding the sound I can't remember now but has space been left to allow sound to be fitted by the buyer if they wish? 

 

I don't know for sure but I assume that since the Digitrains version can take sound, there should be enough space for buyers to add it as an after-market  upgrade if they wish.

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Hi,

 

I had an email from Digitrains yesterday:

 

Quote

We at Digitrains are looking to have 200 of these exclusive King George V No 6000 models made available to us for sound fitting and and they can be in any combination from any of the four variations offered in response to customer interest.

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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