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Loksound V4 L & Heljan o gauge


birdseyecircus
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Iam trying to wire a Loksound V4 L into a Heljan O gauge class 37 with no success. This decoder has the plug in adaptor plate.

 

Whilst I have managed to fit 4mm with sound this is my first 7mm attempt. I am not a DCC expert so am struggling a little.

 

Both red motor wires have been wired to the decoder. Like wise with the black.

Both red track wires have been wired to the decoder. Like wise with the black.

 

All I get with my NCE powercab on the program track function is 'short circuit' detected.

 

I then tried wiring only one motor at a time and trying them. Both got no response from the powercab on the program track.

 

The decoder was chosen as it was a bit cheaper than the screw type as it is fitted with solder pads. Is the other type better?

 

What have I done wrong?

Have I blown the decoder? I hope not. I been a bit sweaty palmed over the last couple of hours !

 

Does any one have a picture/diagram ?

 

All suggestions gratefully received and I will have another go tomorrow evening.

 

Paul

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Hi Paul

I have just today fitted a Loksound V4L to a Heljan class 37 - very successful for me.

 

It is annoying that Heljan can only use red and black.  There must be a world wide shortage of other colours.LOL

 

It is counter intuitive - logically you would think connect the blacks together and the reds together - WRONG

 

For the pickups and the motors you need to connect together the red and blacks - one from each end

You can see on the loco that the bogies with the motor attached are the same each end, so take one red pick up wire from the left hand end and connect it to the black  wire at the right hand end then connect these two to the break out adaptor plate marked TrkL.  etc, etc

 

Hope this explains all

 

Norman

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Hi Paul

I have just today fitted a Loksound V4L to a Heljan class 37 - very successful for me.

 

It is annoying that Heljan can only use red and black.  There must be a world wide shortage of other colours.LOL

 

It is counter intuitive - logically you would think connect the blacks together and the reds together - WRONG

 

For the pickups and the motors you need to connect together the red and blacks - one from each end

You can see on the loco that the bogies with the motor attached are the same each end, so take one red pick up wire from the left hand end and connect it to the black  wire at the right hand end then connect these two to the break out adaptor plate marked TrkL.  etc, etc

 

Hope this explains all

 

Norman

 

Thanks Norman. I will Try tomorrow.

 

Paul

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And to add to Norman's good advice, for the lights the black wires go to the individual functions and the red wires are the common.

 

The latest 37 is a retro grade step for Heljan as far as fitting DCC is concerned. All recent models had a pcb with screw terminals and it was easy to see where everything went this one has gone back to the plug in connectors which really just makes it awkward to a fit a decoder.

 

 

Richard 

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As with Birdseye circus, I too am struggling with dcc installation in the senior scale. Being new to O Gauge and despite having fitted a couple of hundred decoders in 00 over many years, I am somewhat confused about chipping my new Heljan 37. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a basic tutorial for beginners with a couple of pictures regarding dcc installation.

 

I have heard all sorts of horror stories about blowing the lights in O gauge when installing decoders. Is it simpler for a beginner to use the Lok XL that seems to have screw terminals? If so, which wires go where? What would be the best speaker for the HJ 37?

 

Grateful for any advice you experienced O gauge guys can offer.

 

John

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As with Birdseye circus, I too am struggling with dcc installation in the senior scale. Being new to O Gauge and despite having fitted a couple of hundred decoders in 00 over many years, I am somewhat confused about chipping my new Heljan 37. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a basic tutorial for beginners with a couple of pictures regarding dcc installation.

 

I have heard all sorts of horror stories about blowing the lights in O gauge when installing decoders. Is it simpler for a beginner to use the Lok XL that seems to have screw terminals? If so, which wires go where? What would be the best speaker for the HJ 37?

 

Grateful for any advice you experienced O gauge guys can offer.

 

John

Hi John

The Loksound L is a good option.

The LED boards have the necessary resistors already fitted so you will not blow the LEDS.

Heljan could have made it a lot easier but it's not too difficult.

Unplug all the wires from the Heljan board and mount the Loksound L breakout board.  I found it was just a bit too big to fit in the well that Heljan have created underneath their board. So I glued a piece of 1mm plasticard in on which to mount the Loksound board using a sticky pad.

 

First identify the pickup wires on each bogie - easy to do with the bogie sides removed and cut off the plastic plugs.

Then connect together one red wire from the left hand bogie and one black wire from the right hand bogie

Now connect this pair to the TrkL on the break out board.

Repeat for the black left and red right and connect this pair to the TrkR on the break out board

 

Then onto the motor

Virtually the same as above but connect each pair (red/black one from each motor) to a motor pad on the board. repeat for the other pair and connect to the other motor padl.

 

LEDS

Cut a plug off a pair of wires and check which lights it controls - red or white

Easy to do just hook up a 12volt supply +pos to red wire and -neg to black wire

 

There are two pads marked U+,  the red wires connect to these pads

The black wires go to the pads marked FL & RL for the white lights

and Aux1 and Aux2 for the reds.

So 4 black wires one to each FL RL Aux1 and Aux2

4 Red wires connect two together and on to the U+ pads

 

I have not wired the fan up but you could use another function for that pair one to U+ and one to Aux3 - if you get the wrong way round the fan will blow rather than suck but no one will notice.

Good luck

 

Norman 

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Still no joy with the decoder despite Normans help. Just to recap:

 

The 37 works on DC. The layout works. Whilst I no longer get the short circuit message, the powercab now says cannot read cv when in track programming mode. No other loco is on the track.

 

On the 37 I did not cut off the plugs - instead I pulled off the plastic plugs leaving the metal connectors on the wire (not had the courage yet to start hacking about a £500 loco!)

 

The wires on the right bogie were extended by soldering on to the metal plugs. These were all connected using Normans method.

I have checked each wire is going were its suppose to several times.

 

If the decoder is blown what sort of message would the powercab show if any?

Due to other commitments it will be Sunday before I can get back on it.

 

Paul

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Hi John

The Loksound L is a good option.

The LED boards have the necessary resistors already fitted so you will not blow the LEDS.

Heljan could have made it a lot easier but it's not too difficult.

Unplug all the wires from the Heljan board and mount the Loksound L breakout board.  I found it was just a bit too big to fit in the well that Heljan have created underneath their board. So I glued a piece of 1mm plasticard in on which to mount the Loksound board using a sticky pad.

 

First identify the pickup wires on each bogie - easy to do with the bogie sides removed and cut off the plastic plugs.

Then connect together one red wire from the left hand bogie and one black wire from the right hand bogie

Now connect this pair to the TrkL on the break out board.

Repeat for the black left and red right and connect this pair to the TrkR on the break out board

 

Then onto the motor

Virtually the same as above but connect each pair (red/black one from each motor) to a motor pad on the board. repeat for the other pair and connect to the other motor padl.

 

LEDS

Cut a plug off a pair of wires and check which lights it controls - red or white

Easy to do just hook up a 12volt supply +pos to red wire and -neg to black wire

 

There are two pads marked U+,  the red wires connect to these pads

The black wires go to the pads marked FL & RL for the white lights

and Aux1 and Aux2 for the reds.

So 4 black wires one to each FL RL Aux1 and Aux2

4 Red wires connect two together and on to the U+ pads

 

I have not wired the fan up but you could use another function for that pair one to U+ and one to Aux3 - if you get the wrong way round the fan will blow rather than suck but no one will notice.

Good luck

 

Norman

 

Norman,

 

Thanks very much for the advice. Because I hate soldering to decoders I am still curious about using the screw terminal version. I take it from your comments that the XL with the screw terminals is a total replacement for the Heljan PCB and that this has no rsistors for the lights?

 

Curious to hear your views on the XL.

 

Cheers

 

John

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Hi John

I have not fitted an XL to a class 37 so can't really comment on its fitment.

As I said in my previous post the Heljan light boards include the necessary resistors for the LEDs.

You really don't need to worry about blowing them.

Just to confirm with the new ESU L decoder no soldering to the decoder is required.

The decoder fits to the break out board very neatly.

You do need to solder to the breakout board but it is really quite simple with all pads clearly marked - a well engineered job.

Norman

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  • 2 weeks later...

Still no joy with my Heljan 37. After not touching it for 2 weeks I have just had another fiddle with wires. Powercab still says cannot read CV. If the decoder was blown or faulty would a different message appear?

Starting to look like another decoder is required. Ouch!

 

Paul

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Hi Paul,

 

As an O scale newbie, I can only offer commiserations if the decoder is indeed fried. In my wider experience of DCC in OO, once the decoder is inoperative/dead you tend to get the message cannot read decoder/cv. The only obvious checks I can suggest is have you tried a number of CVs such as 1,8 etc?

 

Given they are such a big ticket item perhaps Digitrains or one of the more specialist outlets can test it for you independently. Given the cost, might be cost effective for sending to ESU for a repair?

 

Good luck

 

John

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I probably have a reputation for asking this on many similar threads where people have cited difficulties with installing a decoder.

Especially as highlighted in the original post - the limited choice of colours used (Red and black in this case, only black in Hornby's case)

making a description of connections by 'colour' and to 'the decoder' not very enlightening!

 

Has a multimeter been used to check the wiring at EACH stage - INCLUDING the isolation of components BEFORE fitting the decoder?

 

The fundamental principles when inserting a decoder into a previously analogue(/dcc ready) loco, is that the decoder INTERCEPTS the wiring from the track to the motor (and any additional lighting etc) -  IE, when the 'plug' is removed, or wiring cut, there is NO LONGER ANY CONNECTION from Track to Motor terminals   (and in most cases, to any part of the lighting)

 

Obviously, when a dcc-ready plug is removed, it is expected that all the correct connections are broken - ready to be replaced by those to and from the decoder.  SOMETIMES this does not happen - eg Hornby examples of miswired wires to 'any pin', or pins passing through the socket to touch metalwork below - causing unexpected shorts.

 

THESE CAN and SHOULD be checked for, on every installation, with a multimeter, as a matter of course - as simple preventive practice.  It is cheaper to check than replace a decoder!! 

 

When it is a 'free-wiring harness' or soldered / hand made set of connections, this is especially important - along with ensuring that insulation is maintained when the bodywork is replaced.

 

It would therefore be (self-)helpful, if OPs could always confirm that they had checked for track <=> motor isolation with a  meter, and then track <=> track input connections on the decoder,    and separately, the decoder motor connections to the separate motor terminals.

(IN this case, with 2 motors, was it tested with just 1 motor at a time ??? - if so, then the polarity /colour of motor connection should have become self evident)

 

In the case, particularly of Bachmann locos (none in 0 gauge 8-) ) - the capacitors fitted around the motor also usually need checking - including any hidden beneath the motor.     I had one (Mehano) train where the capacitor was wired on the track-side of the decoder socket (in the pickup - bogie !!) - it affected the decoder by only running in 1 directions until I found it and removed it.

 

A meter is for life - not just christmas

Edited by Phil S
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I probably have a reputation for asking this on many similar threads where people have cited difficulties with installing a decoder.

Especially as highlighted in the original post - the limited choice of colours used (Red and black in this case, only black in Hornby's case)

making a description of connections by 'colour' and to 'the decoder' not very enlightening!

 

Has a multimeter been used to check the wiring at EACH stage - INCLUDING the isolation of components BEFORE fitting the decoder?

 

The fundamental principles when inserting a decoder into a previously analogue(/dcc ready) loco, is that the decoder INTERCEPTS the wiring from the track to the motor (and any additional lighting etc) -  IE, when the 'plug' is removed, or wiring cut, there is NO LONGER ANY CONNECTION from Track to Motor terminals   (and in most cases, to any part of the lighting)

 

Obviously, when a dcc-ready plug is removed, it is expected that all the correct connections are broken - ready to be replaced by those to and from the decoder.  SOMETIMES this does not happen - eg Hornby examples of miswired wires to 'any pin', or pins passing through the socket to touch metalwork below - causing unexpected shorts.

 

THESE CAN and SHOULD be checked for, on every installation, with a multimeter, as a matter of course - as simple preventive practice.  It is cheaper to check than replace a decoder!! 

 

When it is a 'free-wiring harness' or soldered / hand made set of connections, this is especially important - along with ensuring that insulation is maintained when the bodywork is replaced.

 

It would therefore be (self-)helpful, if OPs could always confirm that they had checked for track <=> motor isolation with a  meter, and then track <=> track input connections on the decoder,    and separately, the decoder motor connections to the separate motor terminals.

(IN this case, with 2 motors, was it tested with just 1 motor at a time ??? - if so, then the polarity /colour of motor connection should have become self evident)

 

In the case, particularly of Bachmann locos (none in 0 gauge 8-) ) - the capacitors fitted around the motor also usually need checking - including any hidden beneath the motor.     I had one (Mehano) train where the capacitor was wired on the track-side of the decoder socket (in the pickup - bogie !!) - it affected the decoder by only running in 1 directions until I found it and removed it.

 

A meter is for life - not just christmas

Thanks Phil. I will have to learn the art of a multi meter. Having come from 00 gauge and fitting dozens of decoders with no issues (or meters) it seems wierd having problems.

I can appreciate the value in using a meter but how many loco or decoder instructions recommend using one?

I will visit maplins over the weekend.

 

Paul

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Digital

Hi John. In a word no. I did buy a multimeter but to be honest I could not get my head around it so the loco is put to one side till I can devote more time to it.

Paul

Sorry to hear you have not being able to sort this. As you had a short circuit at one point in your posts you may or may not have blown the decoder. Another possibility that you are getting the message "not able to read CV" is covered in the link below. It would be wise to check that the decoder is ok and not faulty.

Looking through your posts I believe you are using a NCE PowerCab which is not really suitable for O Gauge.

Have a look at these they may be of help...........

 

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202353705-Cannot-Read-CV

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203537009-Which-system-do-I-need-All-Scales

 

John

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  • 1 month later...

Just to update on this. I bought an XL decoder with screw terminals and have put the other decoder to one side for now.

 

I have wired it up (except the LEDS & Fan) and it all works on my NCE powercab.

 

Despite maybe having a fried decoder I am pleased I can put this to bed and finally have the 37 moving about.

 

Paul

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  • 1 year later...

Appologies for resurecting an old thread, but I am jsut found fitting a Heljan 37 too. Now I have got almost everything working! The only thing I am missing is tail lights in one direction. They are wired black into AUX1 and red into U+. Now I know they work, they have been tested in AUX2 and are fine, but I can't understand why they won't work through Aux1. Anyone any idea where I am going wrong?

 

Cheer,

 

Al.

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Appologies for resurecting an old thread, but I am jsut found fitting a Heljan 37 too. Now I have got almost everything working! The only thing I am missing is tail lights in one direction. They are wired black into AUX1 and red into U+. Now I know they work, they have been tested in AUX2 and are fine, but I can't understand why they won't work through Aux1. Anyone any idea where I am going wrong?

 

Cheer,

 

Al.

Al

I suggest you check the function mapping to ensure that Aux1 is mapped to the F key correctly

Norman

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Al

I suggest you check the function mapping to ensure that Aux1 is mapped to the F key correctly

Norman

Thanks Norman, I figured it would be something like that. Now to work out how to check it. I am still somewhat of a DCC novice!

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I just had a thought, I wonder if the tails are mapped to a different Aux outlet. swapped the wire to Aux 3 and all of a suudenwe now have tail lights! That'll do me for now, at some point i'll need to work out how to turn them off independantly.

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  • 2 years later...
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I have just bought a Heljan class 37 and now need to add a sound chip. This will be my first O gauge diesel, although I have fitted a lot of kit built steam locos with Zimo MX645s with no problem. I thought I’d resurrect this thread rather than start a new one. 
 

I understand that the Heljan power draw is too high for something like a 645 and I probably need to go for a loksound XL or equivalent. My preference would be to use Zimo if possible as that’s what I have done for 90% of my sound chips so far and I like the active drive which Youchoos supply. So I’m thinking of using a Zimo MX696 or MX699. Heljan suggest using a loksound so am I setting myself up for problems in using a Zimo? And would this be a lot more difficult to fit than a Loksound? Do people see any other problems with the Zimo approach?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Andy

 

 

 


 

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 17/03/2017 at 08:51, norman said:

Hi John

I have not fitted an XL to a class 37 so can't really comment on its fitment.

As I said in my previous post the Heljan light boards include the necessary resistors for the LEDs.

You really don't need to worry about blowing them.

Just to confirm with the new ESU L decoder no soldering to the decoder is required.

The decoder fits to the break out board very neatly.

You do need to solder to the breakout board but it is really quite simple with all pads clearly marked - a well engineered job.

Norman

Norman, Just seen this thread from way back, as I am dipping my toe into O Gauge decoder fitting. When you say the Resistors are already attached to the LED light bulbs, are you saying that each LED has its own small board with resistor attached at the location of the LED, or is there one central board from which all the LED wires originate?  Thanks in advance.

 

Steve

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