Coal wagon capacity

[chesterfield]

silly question perhaps but what weight of coal  was carried in a 1930 coal wagon ?

 

I am trying to work out how many wagons would be needed to service  a small Forest of Dean colliery.

[melmerby]

silly question perhaps but what weight of coal  was carried in a 1930 coal wagon ?

 

I am trying to work out how many wagons would be needed to service  a small Forest of Dean colliery.

Depends on the size and type.

 

I have in front of me a model of a wooden body 8 plank 9' 0" wheelbase wagon

It weighed 6-17-0 (6 tons 17 cwts) and could carry a load of 12 tons

Loads of 8 - 12 tons would be typical.

 

Keith

[TheSignalEngineer]

When I worked at a coal wharf if we got a 7-plank of house coal it usually had about 7-8 tons in it depending on the grade.

[MarcD]

Most of the wagons running in the 1930's would have been built between 1890 and 1930, as your average mineral wagon had a life span of about 40-45 years. Mineral wagons generally got bigger over time, starting with 6 ton capacity in the 1860's trough to the GWR's hi-capacity 50ton in the 1930's. Apart from the wagon built specifically for the private owner market, there was a second hand market were the railways companies sold off their lower capacity wagons as thy were replaced with high capacity ones.

 

So to answer the question, private owner wagon type would probably followed the following rule of thumb

• Small merchant's would be, on the whole of the smaller lower capacity 6/8ton type. 
• Larger merchant's/Factors/Small Collieries medium capacity 10/12ton
• Larger Collieries large capacity 12-50ton

Railway companies on the other hand are a bit of a mixed bag. From 1917 when mineral wagons were pooled mineral wagons ran everywhere, with the odd exception. Due to the life span of a wagon and the economic climate in the 1930 most of the wagon used by the big 4 were still those built by the pre-grouping companies, some may still have had there pre-1923 liveries on them. This means just about anything goes from a Midland 8ton 5plk, through to a GWR 50ton monster.

 

Incidentally the Midland 8ton 5 plank were sold off to the South Eastern Chatham Rly,  the Hull and Barnsley Rly and the Plymouth Devonport and Southwest Junction Rly. They were also built for the S&DJR who still had some running in 1930 in there Grey S&DJR livery, also others having passed to the LSWR. This means that you can legitimately paint a Midland 5 plank in a weathered pre-grouping livery of any of the above as well as LMS, LNER, SR or SDJR.       

 

Hope this helps

 

Marc

[jim.snowdon]

Most coal wagons by the 1930s would have been capable of carrying up to 10-12T, depending on the design. The "up to" is the important bit, as the amount of coal you could get into a wagon depends on the type of coal - the density of coal varies from around 75 lb/cu.ft for bituminous coal to 112 lb/cu.ft. for anthracite - and the grade of coal and how well it is compacted in the wagon. The "standard" Railway Clearing House coal wagons were designed on the basis of being able to go anywhere so were designed to take a full load of the densest grade of coal, even though somewhere else in the country a full load by volume might well be significantly less than the wagon's load capacity. Most of Britain's coal is bituminous, which at the light end of the scale, so a full wagon would not reach the wagon's load limit, whereas a full load of Welsh anthracite might well be the full capacity.

 

Jim

[LMS2968]

As said above, the weight depended as much as anything on the type of coal carried: large lumps would fill a wagon with less weight than, say, wet slack. Added to this, coal merchants throughout the country did not want to have excessive amounts of coal on stock: they might not have storage capacity and retaining the wagon for this purpose would incur demurrage charges. This is why high-capacity wagons, which had a much better loaded to tare weight ratio, took time to come into use.

 

The critical components of the wagon which decided a wagon's carrying capacity were the springs and size of axlebox journals. During the war, 12T wagons were rerated to carry 13 tons, without, I believe, any change of these components.

[jim.snowdon]

As said above, the weight depended as much as anything on the type of coal carried: large lumps would fill a wagon with less weight than, say, wet slack. Added to this, coal merchants throughout the country did not want to have excessive amounts of coal on stock: they might not have storage capacity and retaining the wagon for this purpose would incur demurrage charges. This is why high-capacity wagons, which had a much better loaded to tare weight ratio, took time to come into use.

 

The critical components of the wagon which decided a wagon's carrying capacity were the springs and size of axlebox journals. During the war, 12T wagons were rerated to carry 13 tons, without, I believe, any change of these components.

Plus, the dimensions of the axles, wheels and main underframe members.

 

That the 12 & 20T wagons built to the 1923 and subsequent specifications were capable of taking the extra ton is down to the degree of conservatism, ie the factor of safety, built into the design.

 

Jim

[corneliuslundie]

Until 1906 the standard RCH designs were 8 and 10 tonners. In 1906 a 12 tonner was added, but from what I have seen did not dominate orders after that. The 1923 design was a 12 tonner. but with coal wagons having typically a 30 year life or longer you can work out that about two thirds would still be 10 tonners in 1930. And as said, many coal merchants preferred 8 tonners, simply because they were small businesses. You can forget about the 15 ton RCH design as it never really caught on and I am pretty sure (I'd put money on it) that nothing larger ever invaded the Forest by 1930. Try to get hold of Montague's book on the wagons of the Gloucester Wagon & Carriage Co as many of those were for FoD companies and local firms. Or the volume on the private owner wagons of Gloucestershire frokm Lightmoor Press.

There are several 4mm kits around though some of the wagons modelled only saw fairly limited regional distribution. It is a pity the Slaters wagons are not now available.

Jonathan

[wagonman]

Many wagons, particularly the older ones often carried less than their designated load – as Jim Snowdon says in message 5 – and occasionally slightly over! I have details of the working of wagons owned by J W Phipp of Devizes operating between (mostly) Tamworth or Kingsbury collieries and Devizes in the mid 1030s. All were rated at 8 tons and had been built by Wheeler & Gregory in 1883-8. Loads carried range from 5 tons 8 cwt to 8 tons 9 cwt with most being around 6-7 tons. The overloads were always in the same wagon so it may have been uprated when converted to spring buffers in the 1900s.

 

From the modellers point of view, these wagons would have looked 'full' so the actual load probably doesn't matter. A more interesting question for the OP is 'how much siding space have I got?'

[chesterfield]

Many wagons, particularly the older ones often carried less than their designated load – as Jim Snowdon says in message 5 – and occasionally slightly over! I have details of the working of wagons owned by J W Phipp of Devizes operating between (mostly) Tamworth or Kingsbury collieries and Devizes in the mid 1030s. All were rated at 8 tons and had been built by Wheeler & Gregory in 1883-8. Loads carried range from 5 tons 8 cwt to 8 tons 9 cwt with most being around 6-7 tons. The overloads were always in the same wagon so it may have been uprated when converted to spring buffers in the 1900s.

 

From the modellers point of view, these wagons would have looked 'full' so the actual load probably doesn't matter. A more interesting question for the OP is 'how much siding space have I got?'

You hit on the right question!

This is precisely why I needed to know the answer  to wagon capacity.

My understanding is that the bigger mines towards the end of the economic life of the field were producing about a thousand tons a week so this if you the siding capacity you need to have in any mine layout. If you look at Staple Edge colliery– pictures in the book review of Authentic railway operations by Nield, you will see that the yard capacity for loaded wagons seem to be three tracks of approximately 10 wagon capacity each.

 

Thank you for all the answers I will now take them away  and work out what I need to do, as far as capacity's concern