Class 50 why fifty.

[david.hill64]

It would probably have been simpler to give them auxiliary engines like the 27s got.

Didn't the WR have some generator vans that could provide ETH when a proper loco was hauling the train?

[Fat Controller]

Didn't the WR have some generator vans that could provide ETH when a proper loco was hauling the train?

They didn't appear until HST days, I believe.

[Southernman46]

Wasn't there a 50 turn for a while with one of those genny coaches and some mk3's where the drivers were told to "do their best" to maintain the HST schedule they were deputising for ...................... resulting in some very spirited running. Others will probably know more details

Edited March 23, 2017 by Southernman46

[Enterprisingwestern]

Apologies for being a tad late to the party, but my entry for the furthest north a Class 50 got;

 

 

421. Inverness. Easter. 1972,

 

Mike.

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Didn't the WR have some generator vans that could provide ETH when a proper loco was hauling the train?

WR never had proper locos because they are only just getting OLE now.

[Zomboid]

Apologies for being a tad late to the party, but my entry for the furthest north a Class 50 got;

 

1-MSP - 172 - 421 Inverness.jpg

 

421. Inverness. Easter. 1972,

 

Mike.

31 and 49 have been to Kyle and Wick. After BR withdrew them (2006), but they've been there. 49 was dressed up as 12 though. Edited March 23, 2017 by Zomboid

[Enterprisingwestern]

31 and 49 have been to Kyle and Wick. After BR withdrew them (2006), but they've been there. 49 was dressed up as 12 though.

 

That doesn't count, I meant in proper service in the good old days!!

 

Mike.

[Zomboid]

What counts as proper service? When they used a Deltic on VXC, was that a proper service? Or the 50s on the regular Fishguard services for that matter?

 

I'll accept that a charter like the trips on the far north/ Kyle lines don't count as a "proper service".

[45125]

That doesn't count, I meant in proper service in the good old days!!

 

Mike.

 

There was a rumour one got to Invergordon.

[david.hill64]

They didn't appear until HST days, I believe.

I suspect that is right: but would have been a potential (groan) alternative to equipping the most handsome diesel locos in BR history with ETH.........

[The Stationmaster]

Didn't the WR have some generator vans that could provide ETH when a proper loco was hauling the train?

 

 

Wasn't there a 50 turn for a while with one of those genny coaches and some mk3's where the drivers were told to "do their best" to maintain the HST schedule they were deputising for ...................... resulting in some very spirited running. Others will probably know more details

There was a single generator van - a converted BG which happened to have a  B5 bogie at one end and a B4 at the other - which was provided in order to work with HST stock in order to allow a rake of coaches to be brought into traffic when power car deliveries were not keeping pace with passenger coach deliveries.

 

The train was never intended to run in HST timings but the genvan was permitted to run at 100mph - and it did.  The train had to have two Drivers because it wasn't possible for the fire alarm 'system' in the genvan to be connected to the loco so therefore it was required to be manned - logically a Driver was used because effectively the turn was going to be an HST turn and would thus have two Drivers anyway.  In the light of 'staff concerns' we had to have a meeting to see if it was suitable vehicle for a Driver to ride in so we did a 'joint investigation' (management and staff side) travelling in the van with the generator in operation during a normal booked working from Bristol to Paddington (we did the Down journey in greater comfort in a pasenger coach).

 

I can't remember the exact details but it only lasted fora  few months until power car deliveries had caught up.

[brushman47544]

In handling terms i found them quite different from the Brush 4 because even after refurbishment and removal of lots of gizmos the electronics still did a lot of the thinking especially when notching up but overall they were little different in terms of ability to maintain time with booked loads.

 

I had a cab ride in 50024 from Paddington to Reading and one thing I particularly remember is how little the driver had to do under greens all the way.

[Edwin_m]

There was a single generator van - a converted BG which happened to have a  B5 bogie at one end and a B4 at the other - which was provided in order to work with HST stock in order to allow a rake of coaches to be brought into traffic when power car deliveries were not keeping pace with passenger coach deliveries.

 

The train was never intended to run in HST timings but the genvan was permitted to run at 100mph - and it did.  The train had to have two Drivers because it wasn't possible for the fire alarm 'system' in the genvan to be connected to the loco so therefore it was required to be manned - logically a Driver was used because effectively the turn was going to be an HST turn and would thus have two Drivers anyway.  In the light of 'staff concerns' we had to have a meeting to see if it was suitable vehicle for a Driver to ride in so we did a 'joint investigation' (management and staff side) travelling in the van with the generator in operation during a normal booked working from Bristol to Paddington (we did the Down journey in greater comfort in a pasenger coach).

 

I can't remember the exact details but it only lasted fora  few months until power car deliveries had caught up.

I travelled from Newcastle to Derby in a HST formation hauled by a Peak with a generator van in late 1987.  So either it survived that long or another one was converted later.

[The Stationmaster]

I travelled from Newcastle to Derby in a HST formation hauled by a Peak with a generator van in late 1987.  So either it survived that long or another one was converted later.

 

Probably the same one then - long gone from the WR by then (or rather from WR internal HST workings).

[Dunsignalling]

WR never had proper locos because they are only just getting OLE now.

Strictly speaking, electrics aren't locomotives at all.

 

The definition of a locomotive is a vehicle that moves under its own power. Electrics get theirs from an external supply, so don't qualify.

 

John

[Gary H]

There was a single generator van - a converted BG which happened to have a  B5 bogie at one end and a B4 at the other - which was provided in order to work with HST stock in order to allow a rake of coaches to be brought into traffic when power car deliveries were not keeping pace with passenger coach deliveries.

 

The train was never intended to run in HST timings but the genvan was permitted to run at 100mph - and it did.  The train had to have two Drivers because it wasn't possible for the fire alarm 'system' in the genvan to be connected to the loco so therefore it was required to be manned - logically a Driver was used because effectively the turn was going to be an HST turn and would thus have two Drivers anyway.  In the light of 'staff concerns' we had to have a meeting to see if it was suitable vehicle for a Driver to ride in so we did a 'joint investigation' (management and staff side) travelling in the van with the generator in operation during a normal booked working from Bristol to Paddington (we did the Down journey in greater comfort in a pasenger coach).

 

I can't remember the exact details but it only lasted fora  few months until power car deliveries had caught up.

I seem to recall in the very hot summer of 76, there were some early HST failures  due to overheating and the 50's were again deputised for the new HST's on BTM workings.

Ofcourse the overheating issue was sorted quite quickly and the HST's settled down. 

I think the gen van was also used for these on HST stock in lieu of MK2 stock Mike?

Apologies if that is incorrect. Its a good few blackberry seasons ago now!!

Edited March 23, 2017 by Gary H

[Peter Kazmierczak]

There weren't many HST diagrams in the summer of '76.....

 

I thought that the HST coolant problems came a tad later.

[slilley]

I had 47500 with an HST rake and generator van from Bristol TM to Paddington on 10 October 1987. Departure from TM was about 6pm. Had been to see Bristol City v Southend.

[Gary H]

There weren't many HST diagrams in the summer of '76.....

 

I thought that the HST coolant problems came a tad later.

Your correct, Pete.

I remember the coolant issues but not so clear on what year it was.

Like you say, 76 was a tad early for the HST's. It was more likely summer 77 or even 78.

[Commoner]

I seem to recall in the very hot summer of 76, there were some early HST failures  due to overheating and the 50's were again deputised for the new HST's on BTM workings.

Ofcourse the overheating issue was sorted quite quickly and the HST's settled down. 

I think the gen van was also used for these on HST stock in lieu of MK2 stock Mike?

Apologies if that is incorrect. Its a good few blackberry seasons ago now!!

The hot summers that did for HST availability were 83 and 84. Lots of loco-hailed substitutions.

 

As far as the generator set is concerned this first appeared in the late summer of 1980. The GEC traction motor debacle led to the suspension of power car deliveries for a sustained period. The WR took the opportunity to use the trailers of set 253 040 initially with gen van and the set was usually found on the 07.45/16.20 Padd-BTM and 11.10/18.30 return services. The set was regularly diagrammed until June 1981 when power car deliveries for 253 028-040 were completed.

 

The use of the generator van continued on the WR into the 1980s on an ad-hoc basis and was not dedicated to any one set of trailers. It was frequently used on a set of trailers when there were insufficient power cars available to cover the booked diagrams. In the mid-1980s WR Control had a formal contingency plan, giving clear directions on the use of the generator set, in the event of a deficit in the sets available at OOC, SPM or Laira. I have a copy tucked away somewhere, and will upload it if of interest, although it perhaps has little relevance to this thread.

[roger440]

I had 47500 with an HST rake and generator van from Bristol TM to Paddington on 10 October 1987. Departure from TM was about 6pm. Had been to see Bristol City v Southend.

Indeed. It was certainly in occasional use in the late eighties as i recall on services out of Padd.

[Davexoc]

I travelled from Newcastle to Derby in a HST formation hauled by a Peak with a generator van in late 1987.  So either it survived that long or another one was converted later.

There are or were 4 generator vans, eventually numbered 6310-3. Most if not all survive and regularly crop up on charters these days. Liveries carried have been all over blue, blue/grey and mainline raspberry ripple before the current choc/cream, umber/cream and maroon depending on whether Riviera, VSOE or WCRC owned.

 

Dave

[keefer]

Aren't those the genny vans for normal LHCS though?

The one being discussed was for use with HST trailers only as it was 415V 3-phase AC supply instead of 1000V DC of LHCS

[Eggesford box]

What are/were the 'Duffs' please?

 

Regards

Class 47s where also nicknamed Spoons. I always assumed it was because of the noise when the driver 'feathered' the horn when acknowledging the right away tip.

[Eggesford box]

I don't reliably remember that kind of detail unfortunately (the draught excluder sounds familiar, but am I adding that now?). What I do know is that it was on a passenger train at Woking in the late 1980s, and at the time there were 4 types of train in my head beyond the really famous things like Thomas, Mallard and Big Boys - diesel, electric, steam (tender) and steam (tank).

It was definitely diesel, and I was utterly awestruck.

Suppose it might have been a 33, too. I'll never know, but 50s have more character so I choose to remember that.

33s have dual controls so if you where in the second mans seat and there was a big silver handle moving to and fro in front of you, that was a 33.