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Just managed to build up the track sections fior my new mini layout, Theme is 1940s London, just north of Kings Cross, so conduit.

Used this as a demo at Heywood(Rochdale) exhivition this weekend.

The rail has been threaded, just need to solder up connnecting rails and fit into APA box.

Quite a bit to do, with an upper track along the viaduct.

Plan to have something to show at Blackpool in June, even if it is not working yet, but that might be possible.

london-trams1-sm.jpg

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wired up the rails to linkthe breaks in the rails, and got a couple of trams to run.Ok but not perfect. Should be OK, but a couple of things I might be more careful with next time.

Sorted out some old buildings to put one end, the other bein the cinema front I already have.

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Brilliant almost identical track layout to the last tram layout I built (All pictures lost in massive pc fail a few years back unfortunately) Look forward to seeing this progress.

                                          Steve

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Hopefully something might be running for June.

Taking it steady, this will be one of the last models I do in OO, next one will be HO, combining dockside, railway and trams.

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There was a die cast London tram in the 80's , may have been Matchbox, which was 16.5mm gauge but near H0 scale, may be useful, I had one in a box I can't locate at present. It was the same prototype as the Keilkraft 1/76 scale kit, may have been from East Ham?

 

Dava

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forgotten that, will have a look online. I have a kitbuilt tram which I have not built very well.Might measure this up and resize to HO.

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Looking at the various images, the London tram, with four lower Windows, is the earlier Matchbox release, from way back, which was closer to N gauge than anything else, and one image is of one of these converted to run on N gauge track. The later version, which looks nearer 4mm, is shown as being a Preston tram, presumably the builder, and has three lower windows, and I am not sure if anything like that ran on London tramways, but given the number of individual tramway companies, anything might happen.

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Looking at the various images, the London tram, with four lower Windows, is the earlier Matchbox release, from way back, which was closer to N gauge than anything else, and one image is of one of these converted to run on N gauge track. The later version, which looks nearer 4mm, is shown as being a Preston tram, presumably the builder, and has three lower windows, and I am not sure if anything like that ran on London tramways, but given the number of individual tramway companies, anything might happen.

The Matchbox Y-15 is pretty close to HO and a passable ex West Ham car could be bashed from it. The 4 window car is a passable attempt at an LCC E class and is around 1:133. The only diecast London tram in 4mm is the Corgi Feltham, the earlier Corgi classics are a mish mash but roughly to 1:64.

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The Tower models plastic kits of London trams can still be found on e-bay. They make the E1, E3 and HR2 versions, all in 00 scale. IIRC motorising kits were/are also available.

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I have some Tower kits, which is one reason why I think I could do a 3D print design in HO scale. For a closed tram the E1 is probably the one I would do,as I believe they were conduit fitted, and were around for a long time. I think it is an enclosed E1 in the photo of rail crossing tram track I have. For motor I cheat and use a Bachmann Trackster unit. Easier than bogies.

Edited by rue_d_etropal
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I might be interested, but I prefer WSF , as it suits my methods of construction and painting(only water based painted) better. Controversal, but I find it being stronger, also better, not effected by UV , and it is cheaper. In fact a lot less hassle. 

Not sure which tram is in the photo I have seen, but it looks like an E1, but might be wrong. I am not that well up on trams, just like he ida of trams without overhead wires.

I can't plan anything more till I have finished this OO layout, otherwise I might get distracted and rip it up.

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These are detailed models so wont print in WSF.  I usually use HDA these days as a compromise on cost and strength against the finer detail.

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It is opinion, but find that most detail still shows up in WSF. Window frames/supports might be slightly thicker, but can be filed down. It has actually improved over the years.When I started 5 years ago, 2 wellknown and very knowledgable tram modellers were surprised how much better it was than it had been and  what some people said about it. I always ask , but when someone says they can't do it I will do it myself.

I remember one editor describing 3D printing as an aid to scratchbuilding, not a replacement for injection moulding or kit building. I was not sure at the time, but now realise he was actually correct, and people want something that helps them, and at the end they feel they have actually built something. That is very important for the future of the hobby, othewise we will all just become model collectors.

I may view models from a different perspective, which is more from an artistic view. Look at most period photos and the trams were not in pristine condition. Museums sometimes give the wrong impression of real life. A lot of detail is simply not that obvious without looking realy close. It is my opinion, but I think that far too many models  simply don't capture the overall efect, even though they have all the detail.

I have had no grumbles from people about my models. They appreciate that there is at least amodel available. Often they will do a lot of work on a chassis, even fix a few problems, but compared to the alternative, totally scratchbuilding, then they see the advantage of a simple 3D printed model.

 

From having run a model shop, and talked to people at all levels, I have concluded that most people don't actually want every little bit of detail, just something that looks right, works, and does not have bits falling off it when you run it.

 

Given the type of problems I keep reading about on forums, maybe the quest for finer detail is at the cost of actual quality.

 

If I continue, I might get banned. It is a subject that does get me ......

 

Back to my own layout. I think I might actually convert it to HO, as I have the trains for that. Would need the trams though, but it just does not feel right as a layout. Things just don't seem to fit in. Also have to remember the gauge is not actually correct. I also need to fit new continuous rail,as there are a couple of small problems. Not sure why I did not do it from beginning, but at the exhibition It was easier, and possibly safer to use shorter lengths of rail. Pity, as I have a lot of bits for 4mm scale, but they can be put in store box.

Edited by rue_d_etropal

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The beading won't survive the sanding required to get a smooth surface on WSF.  OK, the trams were rough, but that was dents and dirt. not lack of detail.
I agree with the stuff about scartchaid and not killing modelling, and respect your opinion to model however you see fit, but I won't be redrawing this one to print in WSF.

But I do think plenty tram modellers like detail, they tell me so when seeing my prints.
Gauge on trams being underscale is a plus for most modellers too, many early trams were only 6 foot wide and there just isn't room for wider gauge/wheels unless you go finescale.

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Before the 1930s most of the London boroughs ran there own tram fleets most of these were originally four wheel three window Preston designs that started off open toppers but gained closed tops by the 1930s. All these were equipped with plough carriers so could use the conduit system of inner London.

 

In central London the LCC controlled the use of trams and  although some were four wheelers like the B, C, and M class the bogie A, E and E1 class soon dominated and the LCC insisted that the outer boroughs when renewing there stock built trams to the E1 design, the last four wheelers had gone by the end of the 1930.

 

  The West Ham 4 wheel tram in the London transport collection is an example of the early trams and is the tram that the Kiel kraft kit is based on

 

    As has been said the Tower trams tram is based on the E1 series of designs. The two variations being the E3 built totally of metal to cut down the fire risk when working through the Kingsway subway and the HR2 which had four motors instead of the two the E series had so they could work hilly routes. All trams had trolley poles most having two so the pole didnt have to be turned in the busy streets of London though there was some with only one pole. This was apart from a batch of HR2 trams which had no trolley poles and could only work on the conduit though later built HR2 trams had trolley poles like all the other. Cars could convert from the conduit system to the over head and most routes had "change pits" for the change over.

 

This short film shows this change over process in detail as well as a good range of Ei, E3 and HR2 trams in the final few months of London trams

 

Edited by Londontram
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Strictly speaking the Tower E1 only represents a small series of ex Walthamstow cars....possibly some Croydon cars rather than the bulk of the ex LCC cars.

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True but I was just trying to lay the basic groundwork I haven't even mentioned the MET and London United trams which are a subject in there own right with the Felthams (Also made by Tower Trams) and there bogie cars which as a simple guide could be identified by having five not four windows down stairs though there was so many variations.

 

The Tower trams tram can be easily converted to other types with little work. One of the main differences being in the upstairs end windows the destination blind holders and route number holders. Another way to convert the wood bodied E1 to a steel bodied E3 is to shave the center molded rail on the lower body side of the E1 and put a flat overlay of thin plasticard to cover up the earlier cars tumble home

Edited by Londontram

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If you are modelling the London conduit system look for the older Peco Streamline code 100 flat bottom track. This had a central groove on the underside which makes a good representation of the conduit when placed upside down between the rails.

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My 3D printed track has a representation of the conduit in it.Just waiting for confirmation where inspection hatches should be, not helped by curves being sharper than they should be prototypically. I will add it to my design, but as it is not that obvious(one reason it is sometimes difficult to work out in old photos) I can just add it using thin paper cut to shape.

I have now decided on HO scale, so will have to find some drawings of an E3.  I know I have seen some tram drawing in my collection of magazines, but I don't have access to them at the moment. Frustrating.

 

With respect to detail being lost using WSF, I am not so sure , as some of my N scale models still have some rivet detail. I prefer to leave off some detail, as it is probably better to add it later. That is part of the modelling fun.I am also finding that not only is emulsion paint a low cost and effective paint , but it can also help smooth out the grains. I give the surface a light rub, and am now experimenting with a mini electric drill I have, but ideally need to power it from a variable controller,as it is a bit too powerful. I know some like their spray paints, but it is an abslute no for WSF as it sucks in every drop of liquid.

I also use paper and cardboard in my construction, and this superglues to the WSF very easily. It also drills easily and takes a screw thread.

 

 

I am at the Blackpool exhibition in June, not sure what state this layout will be in,but I plan to have a couple of my other mini layouts there, both ralway, but one is a docksidewith inset track.

Edited by rue_d_etropal
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Getting back on track(?), re threaded the rail, so it is continuous, Had a couple of bumps, now sorted.

Now definitely going HO. Decided the laser cut cinema/theatre front is actually closer to HO scale, so it remains. Looking for buildings, as a fair bit of space to fill. Plan to design a typical London underground station front.

Done a basic design for an E3 tram, based on varous bits of info and an E1 tram model I have, and I reckon it will be printed in one piece.I should be able to reach every bit of interior, One advantage of WSF is that you can spread thin paint easily.  I plan to cheat on the chassis and use a Bachmann HO Trackster 4 wheel motor chassis, hidden. I can add the extra detail,such as poles in the entrances, and the traction poles and other fittings.

e3-tram.jpg

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Not strictly trams, but for a London scene, I needed an Underground station building. The Leslie Green design is iconic. I have designed my 3D printed version modular, so I can assemble it(on computer), in various ways.

This is just a test design setup, too big to fit the layout, unfortunately. I plan to remove the arched section and window section from short side, so it wil fit in the right hand side. The curved junctions actually take up a lot of space, forcing buildings back, unless I angle them into the curve.

lt-station.jpg

I have received some nice IHC(Heljan) town buildings, which will fit in nicely, I hope.

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Got something up and running for exhibition in Blackpool. tram is basic, but at least it runs.

hoburn-road-1-sm.jpg

Now need to fix track down properly, complete the inner loop. pavements etc, not much. Plan to have lines running either end of bridge sotrain9eitherLT train or North London EMU.

Chosen name for layout as HOBURN ROAD. This continues my theme combining HO and the my original Lancashire layout name HOBURN . In this case it is also a phonetic pun on Holborn.

Edited by rue_d_etropal
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That track is impressive, is it representing conduit pickup so you don't have to make overhead? H0 scale makes a difference in what fits in the space !

 

Dava

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