Freightliner containers in the late 1960's

[davetheroad]

What sort of containers would freightliner have in the late 1960's. I want to collect a typical 15 flat train? and need to know the container designs and sizes, and what colours to paint them.

['CHARD]

What sort of containers would freightliner have in the late 1960's. I want to collect a typical 15 flat train? and need to know the container designs and sizes, and what colours to paint them.

 

Google images is your first port of call.

 

'Freightliner train 1968' got me this; substitute '1967' for plenty more, ad infinitum...

 

http://www.eastbank.org.uk/images/Glasgow/UK0336.jpg

[bennyboy]

As usual Paul Bartlett's site has the answer.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightliner

[davetheroad]

Thanks I should have remembered Paul Bartlett!

 

It looks like they are mostly 20' and 30' but there are a few interesting specials for variety.

[jim.snowdon]

As well as the relatively uncommon, and soon to be extinct 10 foot containers, and oddest of all, the 10' guard's container in lieu of the traditional brake van. They were not, from what I have seen, at all popular with the guards and in the days before agreement was reached about the guard riding in the rear cab of the loco, there were instances of redundant non-gangwayed Brake 3rds being used just to carry the guard and the tail lamp.

 

Jim

[Enterprisingwestern]

As well as the relatively uncommon, and soon to be extinct 10 foot containers, and oddest of all, the 10' guard's container in lieu of the traditional brake van. They were not, from what I have seen, at all popular with the guards and in the days before agreement was reached about the guard riding in the rear cab of the loco, there were instances of redundant non-gangwayed Brake 3rds being used just to carry the guard and the tail lamp.

 

Jim

 

Not always at the rear of the train.

 

Mike.

[duncan]

& this site !

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/243-intermodalcontainers/

[Mark Saunders]

Triang should be given more credit than they get for the containers, especially the Lacashire flat and Tank!

 

Mark Saunders

 

[The Johnster]

As well as the relatively uncommon, and soon to be extinct 10 foot containers, and oddest of all, the 10' guard's container in lieu of the traditional brake van. They were not, from what I have seen, at all popular with the guards and in the days before agreement was reached about the guard riding in the rear cab of the loco, there were instances of redundant non-gangwayed Brake 3rds being used just to carry the guard and the tail lamp.

 

Jim

 

 

These were painted in the Freightliner grey livery, without the red stripe.  I do not know what provision there was for heating; I assume they were fitted with stoves.  Come to that, I do not know what heating was provided in the 'container guard's box' thing either, but IIRC the NRM has one of those.  Presumably the guard had access to a brake valve, or there would have been little point in him being there at all!

[Fat Controller]

These were painted in the Freightliner grey livery, without the red stripe.  I do not know what provision there was for heating; I assume they were fitted with stoves.  Come to that, I do not know what heating was provided in the 'container guard's box' thing either, but IIRC the NRM has one of those.  Presumably the guard had access to a brake valve, or there would have been little point in him being there at all!

I believe that a propane-fuelled gas heater was provided; I've seen a photo of one of the 'cabooses' with a gas bottle next to it.

[markw]

Found another photo of a container livery as modelled by triang on IMCDb.org.

William Donald/Sainsbury

http://pics.imcdb.org/10314/00-11tksains.jpg

[russ p]

That looks to have twistlock sockets is it ISO?

[Merfyn Jones]

That looks to have twistlock sockets is it ISO?

 

Yes , but the trailers are not fitted. Used for internal use round the depots only. Note bit of string.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Model Rail, April 2015, has a short article on early containers.

 

Mike.

[russ p]

Were the BSs air braked of just through piped?

Also were the propane heaters for the 'cabooses' used in the BSs?

I wonder if they left the seats in the compartments, if so I'd put money on them being used as beds especially on nights!

[markw]

That looks to have twistlock sockets is it ISO?

Well they were introduced in 1967, about a year before the ISO adopted the standards but they are to the same standards.

[rodent279]

So how was the guards brake valve arranged in the container? Or was one required, since the train was fully fitted?

[giz]

So how was the guards brake valve arranged in the container? Or was one required, since the train was fully fitted?

ISTR that there was a hose that connected onto the end brake pipe of the container wagon.

[jonny777]

You could do worse than obtain a copy of this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/302621782452?chn=ps&adgroupid=49962975962&rlsatarget=pla-379145151066&abcId=1129946&adtype=pla&merchantid=113695056&poi=&googleloc=1006641&device=c&campaignid=974199341&crdt=0

 

It has some great photos in it, and at the price shown there is half of what I paid for my new copy 27 years ago. 

[john new]

A follow up question. These containers began for sea use in 1956 and, as mentioned above, on BR from 1967. Has anyone any idea when they started to be sold off and began to appear dotted around the lineside areas as store sheds and the like?

 

An everyday sight these days but, despite seeing the transition era first hand, I have no idea when they began to appear as statics.

Edited January 22, 2019 by john new

[Fat Controller]

The original Freightliner 'bottom-lift' containers, as modelled by Hornby would have been superceded by the early 1970s. 

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm building one of these:

 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-freightliner-guards-caboose-at-the-national-railway-museum-york-england-141362553.html

 

I have scaled from photographs and a used one of my "highly accurate" Triang Hornby containers for a guide.

 

 

Gibbo.

[john new]

The original Freightliner 'bottom-lift' containers, as modelled by Hornby would have been superceded by the early 1970s.

 

So is that when they would start to appear as static storage units etc?

[The Johnster]

In the early days, the majority of containers on trains were in Freightliner's own red/grey livery, and the first different ones I recall making much of an impact on that were P and O and Ford.  The 'guard's van containers' were unpopular because they were made of glass fibre and very prone to condensation; even the calor gas heaters failed to keep them warm and dry, and they shook about a bit and became draughty at the door and window frames, no fun at Freightliner speeds in cold weather.  I suspect they were already being withdrawn by the time my local Freightliner depot, Pengam in Cardiff, was opened and I became familiar with the trains, as I do not recall ever seeing one except in photographs in 'Modern Railways'.  The first Freightliner trains I ever saw had Freightliner grey liveried mk1 non-gangwayed brake seconds, and I assume that these had been converted to at least through piped (if not fully air braked) vehicles with a setter in the guard's compartment.  These were of course also calor heated, but did not last very long before the 1969 single manning agreement allowed guards to ride in the rear cab of the locomotive on fully fitted trains that did not carry passengers.  These Brake 2nds could be marshalled anywhere in the train, as up to 20 vehicles behind the brake van were permitted on a fully fitted Class 4 train by this time.

 

Had they come into general use, there would have been a pilferage issue with the calor bottles at many depots, and burning gas would still have been a cause of condensation in the guard's compartments.  BR fairly clearly intended these trains, and the Cartics, to run without guard's vans from the outset, which led to an industrial dispute; I couldn't avoid the feeling at the time and am still of the view that solutions known to be impractical in the long term were used in order to persuade the unions to accept trains without specific guard's accommodation (this is very much an opinion of mine and I am not stating it to be a fact); the NUR, never as aggressive as ASLEF the driver's union and not much use to my view when I worked as a guard in the 70s, actually did pretty well to hold the line and keep a man on fully fitted trains to protect the rear for some considerable time to come.

 

A guard in the rear cab of the loco (mostly we rode in front with the driver) had no brake that he was trained to use that could stop a train in an emergency; on a fully fitted train post 1969 you were supposed to inform the driver by bell code that you wanted to stop, using the fire alarm test bell, then you walked through the engine room to tell him why.  But in the event of an incident or failure that blocked the line, the driver (or secondman if he had one) would protect the train 'in advance' with detonators that would be set off by the assisting train/locomotive if it approached in that direction, while the guard's job was to do the same 'in rear', behind the train.  Unlike modern railways where nearly everywhere is track circuited, our remaining semaphore signalled areas required this form of protection in the sections between boxes, and these could be quite long with many boxes closed and even more switched out at night or on Sundays.

 

This was one of the reasons that the guard's job I applied for was advertised; the railway had planned freight guard staffing levels to fall by natural wastage/retirement at this time and post 1969 suddenly found themselves needing guards to work the fully fitted trains that had been intended to be single manned.  But of course we new boys worked on train with traditional brake vans as well and had to have full route knowledge to do so.  There was some understandable resentment of us from old hands who'd waited year's for the job we'd come off the street for, and from some drivers who considered us less competent, so you had to prove yourself a bit, not necessarily the worst thing in itself of course!

Edited January 23, 2019 by The Johnster

[Fat Controller]

So is that when they would start to appear as static storage units etc?

I would think so; any on terminals would find a use as storage for all sorts of things. I don't think a formal market for the things arose until the dealers had cleared their stocks of old van bodies and wooden containers. I must go and take some photos of the one that's at Etchinghill cricket club before the builders move in.