DC or DCC?

[lesmond]

As I mostly (for now) build micro layouts with one engine and maybe a single point I'm in the DC camp. I work in IT so computers and how to get them to talk to things isn't a problem for me, however as I do this all day (and sometimes all night) and really don't want my hobby to be an extension of work. It is however useful for cheap, powerful PSUs and D connectors.

 

I've a 27' x 18' inverted L On30 "empire" planned, and it may well be DCC controlled. On the other hand, I might just bite the bullet and go for cab control. I really enjoy planning and fitting wiring so it isn't a hardship.

 

Les

[Chris M]

I really enjoy planning and fitting wiring so it isn't a hardship.

 

Les

Im with you on that one.

[Mike Storey]

The best thing for that is BPRC as many a garden railway builder will tell you. You also need points that change automatically or a loco that is heavy enough to push the blades over.

 

You also need a steady hand and a sharp eyeball to manage to fit the damn things into the average 00 loco (pending further miniaturisation of course, for both the control units and the battery packs, plus on-the-move re-charging). I am sure it will happen one day, and allow DCC-type operation of ancillaries (sound, lights etc) but at the moment, it is for 0 gauge and above realistically. I really wanted ProtoCab and similar to be practical before I embarked on my lifetime layout. Despite major advances, mainly in the US, you cannot fit the necessary gear into a Heljan Class 33 or Dapol 73, without major surgery (self-made at the risk of completely destroying £100 plus of loco, or paying a small fortune for someone to do it for you) and then the tractive adhesion is lost through weight loss (assuming it could be done - I have not seen such a conversion yet). Of course, you may tell me how this can be done, some way or another, but I am just not interested in a start-up technology at this stage of my modelling.

 

Any Garden Railway Builder, which is what I also happen to be, in 16mmNG, will not tell you that about BPRC. Despite the widespread use of 2.7 GHz now, and the availability of some pretty serious US kit, you cannot yet achieve the same DCC effects on remote control without using track power (I know this is not far away). This will be easier to solve than for 00, but it is not there yet, without spending some serious money for personalised customisation (or learning a whole new, complex skill in utilising TMS systems or similar). Roundhouse/Brian Jones sounds systems on remote control, are not the same, but they are perfectly adequate for what I want in the garden.

[dpgibbons]

As I mostly (for now) build micro layouts with one engine and maybe a single point I'm in the DC camp.​

 

 

Yet arguably a micro layout is the perfect excuse to employ DCC for its attributes of precision slow running and sound.

[grahame]

Yet arguably . . . .

Certainly one thing that DCC has introduced to the model railway world is an element of argument and disagreement.

 

G.

[Chris M]

I see Hornby has announced they are going to produce a battery powered junior train set. It will have plastic track but will otherwise be compatible with OO. I think a main supplier moving in this way is an interesting development. It could of course turn out to be a blind alley.

 

In the meantime I have been playing with my BPRC out in the garden. This little video shows what can be done. The transmitter which will work 12 receivers costs £68 and the receivers £40 each; there is one receiver in each loco. Both locos are fitted with £49 Mylocosound cards. I use ordinary nimh rechargeables that I buy from Maplins when they are on special. So not a huge investment. The whistles are wrong but I like that sound and are worked from the transmitter. The best thing about this is not having to clean the track together with absolutely no stalling on points no matter how slow you go or how bad the point is. I was filming and controlling at the same time which doesn't help the control.

 

https://youtu.be/1zfZEjkHDhY

[pauliebanger]

Tha nks. I agree about Zimo decoders. but who's sound file are they, particularly the Class 5. It has a good sound.

 

Coachman,

 

Thank you for the complement.

 

These are sound projects that I have created on ZIMO decoders for a ZIMO UK authorised retailer, Digitrains.

 

MX644D £92, MX645R, £95 including your choice of sounds.

 

I have my own ProtoDrive versions available which include variable inertia and momentum, (without changing CVs), Working Brakes which actually slow the model by using an F key as the brake control, Light and heavy train options slectable by F key at any time which change the sounds played and the way the model reacts to throttle inputs.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

Now if you could tell me how you do that with switches on DC Mr DagworthDagworth I'd be truly amazed !

 

Roger,

 

Unfortunately, your comment was inserted into my post above my name, which on casual glance looks like I made the remark, which I did not.

 

I believe that Gaugemaster offer a DC controller which can access some DCC function keys, so it may not be as amazing a feat as you think. LOL.

 

I am a very long term user of non-analogue train control, (since late 1970s), but I'm very much of the view that DC works as well as it always has. And it continues to satisfy the needs of those who use it.

 

I've no desire to foist my preference on others,  and certainly not to claim that my choice is the only (or even the best) one,  but I am happy to state that only DCC meets my needs.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Mike Storey]

Coachman,

 

Thank you for the complement.

 

These are sound projects that I have created on ZIMO decoders for a ZIMO UK authorised retailer, Digitrains.

 

MX644D £92, MX645R, £95 including your choice of sounds.

 

I have my own ProtoDrive versions available which include variable inertia and momentum, (without changing CVs), Working Brakes which actually slow the model by using an F key as the brake control, Light and heavy train options slectable by F key at any time which change the sounds played and the way the model reacts to throttle inputs.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul

 

I keep seeing praise heaped on your sound files, but how does one obtain any? I cannot see any ProtoDrive options on the Digitrains site.

[pauliebanger]

Hi Paul

 

I keep seeing praise heaped on your sound files, but how does one obtain any? I cannot see any ProtoDrive options on the Digitrains site.

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for your interest

 

Digitrains have their own series of my sound projects, mostly now under the banner of 'ActiveDrive'. Digitrains require their projects to be useable by owners of the majority of DCC systems. That means that there is a restriction on F key use as some systems have limited access to higher F keys, so no sounds higher than F20 and some advanced functions are excluded.

 

This is to meet their requirements as they see them to meet their customers' needs.The main engine and ancillary sounds are the same or vey similar to ProtoDrive equivalents, so it's normally control function differences or the ommission of certain sounds. EG, the ActiveDrive Class 08 is almost identical to the Protodrive versions but does not include the driver and shunter radio traffic for propelled shunting control. (from about 2min 30sec)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnlfle1HaTM

 

My own series of ProtoDrive projects have all the knobs, bells(sometimes) and whistles that I can throw at them. Many use all available F keys.Some have special software adaptation which I have developed with ZIMO software engineers.

 

The Sutton's Locomotive Workshop Class 24 is an example of a ProtoDrive sound project, the sound projects for Minerva Models' Peckett and their Victory steam locos are likewise. The Little Loco Company Class 15 is a ProtoDrive type project too.

 

The only other way to get ProtoDrive projects on ZIMO decoders, supplied or re-blown is from me direct.You still only pay the price of the decoder (and postage), but you are certain to get the very latest version of regularly created or updated sound projects, and the opportunity to have them customised to your own specifications.

 

If you are on my newsletter email group you will get (occassional) updates and my email address through which to contact me.

 

A PM on here will usually receive a prompt reply.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Roger Sunderland]

Roger,

 

Unfortunately, your comment was inserted into my post above my name, which on casual glance looks like I made the remark, which I did not.

 

I believe that Gaugemaster offer a DC controller which can access some DCC function keys, so it may not be as amazing a feat as you think. LOL.

 

I am a very long term user of non-analogue train control, (since late 1970s), but I'm very much of the view that DC works as well as it always has. And it continues to satisfy the needs of those who use it.

 

I've no desire to foist my preference on others,  and certainly not to claim that my choice is the only (or even the best) one,  but I am happy to state that only DCC meets my needs.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Yes very sorry Paul, I did edit it immediately though.

[Mike Storey]

Mike,

 

Thanks for your interest

 

Digitrains have their own series of my sound projects, mostly now under the banner of 'ActiveDrive'. Digitrains require their projects to be useable by owners of the majority of DCC systems. That means that there is a restriction on F key use as some systems have limited access to higher F keys, so no sounds higher than F20 and some advanced functions are excluded.

 

This is to meet their requirements as they see them to meet their customers' needs.The main engine and ancillary sounds are the same or vey similar to ProtoDrive equivalents, so it's normally control function differences or the ommission of certain sounds. EG, the ActiveDrive Class 08 is almost identical to the Protodrive versions but does not include the driver and shunter radio traffic for propelled shunting control. (from about 2min 30sec)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnlfle1HaTM

 

My own series of ProtoDrive projects have all the knobs, bells(sometimes) and whistles that I can throw at them. Many use all available F keys.Some have special software adaptation which I have developed with ZIMO software engineers.

 

The Sutton's Locomotive Workshop Class 24 is an example of a ProtoDrive sound project, the sound projects for Minerva Models' Peckett and their Victory steam locos are likewise. The Little Loco Company Class 15 is a ProtoDrive type project too.

 

The only other way to get ProtoDrive projects on ZIMO decoders, supplied or re-blown is from me direct.You still only pay the price of the decoder (and postage), but you are certain to get the very latest version of regularly created or updated sound projects, and the opportunity to have them customised to your own specifications.

 

If you are on my newsletter email group you will get (occassional) updates and my email address through which to contact me.

 

A PM on here will usually receive a prompt reply.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul - will PM you!

 

Mike

[bike2steam]

I've noticed that most of the way of this thread it's been a roughly 40%/60% split, but I still agree with post #4 - it proves nothing.

[pauliebanger]

Yes very sorry Paul, I did edit it immediately though.

 

Roger,

 

No harm done.

 

Thank you, I noticed the correction. (and clicked on the 'thank you' icon).

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[chaz]

I have two layouts, both of which are DCC controlled. My 7mm exhibiton layout (Dock Green) has a now quite old Lenz system but with all the points controlled with switches. On my On30 home layout I use a Multimaus system with all the points thrown from the two handsets. I love the facility of throwing points from the MM handsets, which show the track settings - no need to walk over and have a look and no need for control panels.

I would not now like to revert to DC control although I do concede that it is not the cheapest option. Personally if I were short of cash I would prefer fewer locos with DCC rather than more without.

 

Chaz

[ruggedpeak]

As I mostly (for now) build micro layouts with one engine and maybe a single point I'm in the DC camp. I work in IT so computers and how to get them to talk to things isn't a problem for me, however as I do this all day (and sometimes all night) and really don't want my hobby to be an extension of work.

This thread is precisely the sort of thing I really can't be bothered with trying to sort out. Horses for courses.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122563-Hornby-class-67-with-tts-sound-chip-programing-issue/&do=findComment&comment=2713196

 

Yet arguably a micro layout is the perfect excuse to employ DCC for its attributes of precision slow running and sound.

?? I am building a DC micro layout and have excellent slow running. Even over insulfrog points. Don't see how DCC provides better slow running unless you have stay alive fitted (more cost & complexity). I can get a lovely crawl off a 30 year old Hornby train set controller as well as my Gaugemaster. Indeed I was at show yesterday and watching a very good layout but DCC was causing problems, especially around slow running. The one bit that worked consistently well was the magnet/paperclip automatic uncoupling system that was entirely analogue.

[dpgibbons]

Don't see how DCC provides better slow running unless you have stay alive fitted (more cost & complexity).​

 

 

Because with DCC you are controlling the motor in a much more sophisticated way. Average performers under DC can be transformed using DCC. I wonder though how many DCC users have the equipment and tuning skills to get the full potential out of their locos.   

[Ron Ron Ron]

...From going to shows regularly with my micro layouts I see more DC than DCC....

 

 

That appears to have been changing over the last couple of years, from my own personal observations.

At this years Ally Pally show, I made a point of looking and noticed that DCC layouts were in the majority. 

At a guess, at least two thirds, if not as high as 70%.

 

Also at a couple of the larger shows down here along the south coast, the number of DCC controlled layouts has been gradually increasing over the same time frame.

At one large show earlier this year, more than half were controlled using DCC equipment.

 

I suppose there's a critical mass at which point newer methods become commonplace and regarded as the norm?

 

 

.

[chaz]

That appears to have been changing over the last couple of years, from my own personal observations.

At this years Ally Pally show, I made a point of looking and noticed that DCC layouts were in the majority. 

At a guess, at least two thirds, if not as high as 70%.

 

Also at a couple of the larger shows down here along the south coast, the number of DCC controlled layouts has been gradually increasing over the same time frame.

At one large show earlier this year, more than half were controlled using DCC equipment.

 

I suppose there's a critical mass at which point newer methods become commonplace and regarded as the norm?

 

 

.

 

I suspect the "critical mass" you speak of happened some time ago in the US where I believe DC control is now unusual. However that's not the position here in the UK - yet. But even when DCC (or indeed RC) becomes "the norm" I hope that DC controllers will be available for those who want them.

There is room in the hobby for several control approaches and no need for anyone to feel they have to justify their choice - we are all free to choose - Rule One always applies.

 

Chaz

[jpendle]

I've noticed that most of the way of this thread it's been a roughly 40%/60% split, but I still agree with post #4 - it proves nothing.

Ah, but the original purpose of this poll was to show our anonymous letter writer that DCC is at least as popular as DC, hence the number of articles on DCC. So its acheived its primary mission.

 

It's also reinforced what we already know.

 

There are as many opinions on this forum as there are members who like trains :)

[jpendle]

Ah, but the original purpose of this poll was to show our anonymous letter writer that DCC is at least as popular as DC, hence the number of articles on DCC. So its acheived its primary mission.

It's also reinforced what we already know.

There are as many opinions on this forum as there are members who like trains :)

Sorry didn't mean to be anonymous.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[tyler 04]

i will stay with analogue on cost and to keep life simple

[Hroth]

Bi-Modal!

[Robin Brasher]

I am surprised to see how many people are DCC users.

[DCB]

DC and on board battery power for me.