Animation and other gimmicks - but done realistically

[TEAMYAKIMA]

If I may paraphrase a well known advert.......

 

'If Pendon did animation or gimmickry......' anyone done anything?

[Dave John]

Depends on what you mean by animation. In the simplest case a loco moving is animation. Then the other stuff. Signals, points, crossing gates . Add in cranes, loaders, lorries, lighting. 

 

My view is that it is all fun; messing about with servos , motors and stuff. Folk may debate how realistic it is, but thats only half the point. You learn by trying. I model in the early edwardian era, to get things to look right I need a 4mm scale radio controlled horse. Don't laugh. ( well you can if you want ) Even if I don't crack it someone will. And a lot of people will have fun trying. 

[cal.n]

As electronics become become smaller and cheaper, this will only get easier.

 

I have seen working bicycles, flying seagulls, waving people and moving CCTV cameras all done realistically in 4mm.

 

I am currently planning to add DCC motorised opening doors to a class 156 linked to a sound chip. (An arduino operated by the door light circuit to operate linear servos on each door under the window level). If it ends up becoming a 'gimmick' and the system isn't completely hidden or is audible over the DCC sound, I will scrap it.

 

IMHO, animation can look it's best when it is part of railway operation (opening shed/depot doors, guards moving arms to dispatch trains, workers operating moving ground frames, opening train doors, working tampers, a working station clock from a cheap wrist watch?)

[PatB]

I always loved the old RM articles on the Ortogo layout although the only one I can now remember was the ganger who stepped back from the track on the approach of a train. I also remember being impressed by an article by the late Derek Naylor (I think) on an operating donkey engine in a small cinderblock works.

 

More recently was the map-reading hiker on Arcadia (I think) and, IIRC, a fisherman casting.

 

I see no reason why animation, done well, shouldn't form part of a "serious" model railway. The main difficulty  that seems to exist is making objects which weigh a few grams (or even less) behave, visually, like their full sized counterparts weighing anything from a few pounds (the angler's arm, for example) to many hundredweight. Things with a bit of weight to them tend to accelerate slowly, move smoothly and decelerate slowly; characteristics which are often lacking in their model representations. The most obvious examples are all those European kits for waterwheels, windmills and fairground rides.

 

However, with the easy and cheap availability of all sorts of servos, small motors and gearboxes and the electronics to drive them with any characteristics the constructor may desire, I would hope that realistic animation becomes more common than it was in the days when the available power units were old solenoid point motors and time expired X04s.

[Douglas G]

"the cacophony of competing sound-equipped layouts is (better: has been) taking away my pleasure of quietly observing a layout for several years."

 

That's a long time to be observing a layout - I would get bored...

 

 

 

 

[BernardTPM]

I  see no reason why animation, done well, shouldn't form part of a "serious" model railway. The main difficulty  that seems to exist is making objects which weigh a few grams (or even less) behave, visually, like their full sized counterparts weighing anything from a few pounds (the angler's arm, for example) to many hundredweight. Things with a bit of weight to them tend to accelerate slowly, move smoothly and decelerate slowly; characteristics which are often lacking in their model representations..

Weight is not the only problem - any kind of swinging length is a pendulum and the rate of swing is not determined by the weight (though that is a factor when it comes to air resistance and momentum) but by it's length. No model pendulum will swing corrected if left to gravity; it must be moved at the correct speed artificially.

[ColinK]

There was a layout years ago with rabbits which retreated back into their burrows when a train approached.

 

More recently; last year I went to the Cologne model railway exhibition. There were loads on animated bits on the maunfacturers stands. Cow moving head, man trying to hit moles when the popped up, man with shovel.

[PatB]

Weight is not the only problem - any kind of swinging length is a pendulum and the rate of swing is not determined by the weight (though that is a factor when it comes to air resistance and momentum) but by it's length. No model pendulum will swing corrected if left to gravity; it must be moved at the correct speed artificially.

 

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the pendulum effect. As you say, a positive drive needs to be devised.

[allan downes]

Dave Rowe of Under Mikwood fame had animation licked way back in the 70's

 

Skipping girl. Man smoking fag - which glowed brighter when he drew in. A fabulous quarry scene where a drag line scooped up sand and loaded wagons and much more. The electronics available then to make these things work was very limited and archaic - but Dave managed just the same with motors, gears, cogs, elastic bands and parts out of Meccano sets !

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

[Pacific231G]

I always liked "The Living Lineside" by the cartoonist Dax in Railway Modeller with the animated figures moving along a slot in the ground. Some of his ideas were lovely and could probably be reproduced fairly readily.

 

I do wonder though if the limitation is to have something moving in a fairly animated way in an otherwise frozen world. The level crossing gates open but the cars don't move (better perhaps to model the road when it's quiet so there are no cars)  A train arrives but the waiting passengers ignore it (Peter Denny's advice was to have the main platform behind the train so you wouldn't see what wasn't happening)

Looking out of my window  onto the street outside nothing much is happening apart from the odd car driving past but the world isn't still. The branches of the trees are swaying in the wind. The TV aerials are moving slightly, a cat is slinking across my garden. I'm thinking that reproducing those sorts of subtle movements might be a good place to start.

 

Animating specific movements in isolation may tend to make the scene look like an automaton, a medieval guidhall clock or one of those animatronic  "Pirates of the Caribbean" type  scenes you see at Disney world all with a lot of repetitive actions. Needless to say, if you enjoy modelling animated scenes then that's what you should be doing.  

 

A lot of models also rather overdo the vignettes- there's always a wedding in the church (rather than vicar just chatting with the verger), there's a road accident, it's market day (but everyone is standing still),

 

Even if you animate his arm the station master will still spend his entire day standing at the end of the platform waiting to give the right of way- He mus be way behind with his paperwork. 

 

There was a fascinating programme about automata on BBC-4 (where else!) called Mechanical Marvels-Clockwork Dreams presented by Prof. Simon Schaffer. It's not currently on BBC iPlayer but they seem to repeat it from time to time and it's well worth seeing. There's a good clip here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p019ng2n and the complexity is astonishing. 

[Orange Cat]

Many, (very many) years ago I was at a show in Worksop. There was a small circular layout (OK: a train set circle of track) modelled in winter with heavy snow. It had a number of animations, very well done. The ones I recall are the lamplighter trying to light the street light in the snow-storm. He climbed his ladder, lit the lamp and when he got down the lamp went out and he had to do it all again. Then there was the van trying to drive up a hill in the snow. It skidded around as it climbed as far as it could and then slid down to the bottom again. I am sure there were more I can not remember. Probably not a realistic railway model but a very enjoyable little layout. The fact that I remember that one layout, and no others, from the show, more than 40 years later, says a lot.

[TonyA]

Animating specific movements in isolation may tend to make the scene look like an automaton, a medieval guidhall clock or one of those animatronic  "Pirates of the Caribbean" type  scenes you see at Disney world all with a lot of repetitive actions. Needless to say, if you enjoy modelling animated scenes then that's what you should be doing.  

 

 

For repetitive action in the "real world", watch Jim Carrey's film, The Truman Show, and see the problems it causes.

 

However, what I would like to do is have chickens feeding slowly beside the road but without paying Viessmans's prices for it. I think it is doable but I have to do the rest of the layout first.

 

Tony

[BG John]

It's something I'd like to try. So far my ideas have been mainly to have the actual movement of people happen when something blocks the view, like a passing train. They first appear in one place, but when the train has passed they are somewhere else. This would overcome the problems of realistic movements. I've also thought about moving horses and people travelling along a road, where the road is behind a hedge or wall, so only the upper part of them moving is visible. This probably avoids all body movements in people, and simplifies the movement in horses.

 

It's on my to-do list, but so are lots of other things!

[davefromacrossthepond]

While all of these ideas (and I'm sure many more) seem to be "way out there."  I have to say if someone told me ten years ago that one day soon I could have a 4mm scale semaphore signal that not only could operate, but have arm "bounce" I would have given myself a stomach ache from laughing so hard.  Perhaps the best way to advance animation is to tell those you know that are natural tinkerers that something can't be done.  

[TEAMYAKIMA]

It's something I'd like to try. So far my ideas have been mainly to have the actual movement of people happen when something blocks the view, like a passing train. They first appear in one place, but when the train has passed they are somewhere else. I

 

AS the OP let me say that this is the kind of thing I've been thinking about and working on.

 

My layout is set in China in 2004/5 at the very end of mainline steam.

 

A diesel passenger passes by ......................

 

 

A double headed steam frieght passes by .............

 

 

Where the heck did he come from?

 

 

He's gone again!

[bertiedog]

For animation, boundaries have been breached. There's even animation of adult activities!

 

Joking aside, as said, miniaturisation makes more cameo's possible. Some are realistic enough to be plausible, others, shall we say, not so much   Case in point: sound. Manufacturers stuff their chips full with 'additional sounds' that are totally unrealistic coming from a (moving) train   Station and on-board announcements, for example. Volume is also a concern, especially on shows. It's one of the reasons I stopped going to shows: the cacophony of competing sound-equipped layouts is (better: has been) taking away my pleasure of quietly observing a layout for several years.

 

Anyway, if someone finds a reliable source of small linear actuators (servo or otherwise) I'd be much obliged to let in on the secret

 

[edit: found some! ]

 

The small linear servos from Hong Kong are easily available on Ebay in pairs,..... But if you want realistic movement generally animate via a CAM, as the follower takes the action in a pre planned path rather than a reciprocal movement. Such a movement is best from a slow moving motor fitted with a cam of large diameter, with a follower driving a lever to the animated item.

 

The movement can be very complex indeed, and the same cam can switch lights or be stacked with several cams for several figures. and also suit level crossings and lifting bridges, and gates or doors. An off position can be added to the cam or double cam, which a micro switch runs on, and you only have to by pass the switch for a moment, and it will run until over, back at rest.

 

If the cam has a stop position added halfway round, then two different patterns can be added to break up the routine that the animation follows.

 

Stephen

 

[allan downes]

I had this idea of a a straight platform that was full of waiting passengers and pivoted at each end and just as the train was pulling away, the platform could be turned upside down revealing and empty surface..

 

Never did it as my wife at the time said that naming the plastic engine drivers was bad enough !

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

[Stubby47]

I had this idea of a a straight platform that was full of waiting passengers and pivoted at each end and just as the train was pulling away, the platform could be turned upside down revealing and empty surface..

 

Never did it as my wife at the time said that naming the plastic engine drivers was bad enough !

 

Cheers.

 

Allan

 

PECOrama had similar rotating scenic sections - one showed a lake in the 'garage' layout. I'd spotted the movement, but when my little daughter tried to convince me there was a lake, I denied all knowledge and said she was seeing things

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I had this idea of a a straight platform that was full of waiting passengers and pivoted at each end and just as the train was pulling away, the platform could be turned upside down revealing and empty surface..

 

 

Allan

Hello Allan

 

Yes. I considered that but I don't think I am that much of a precision engineer. Unless you could manufacture something to the nth degree of precision so that the pivot was positioned VERY accurately at the centre of rotation there would have to be an amount of tolerance to ensure a reliable operation and that tolerance would result in a gap which would annoy me.

[Dave John]

Interesting idea dutch. Just a thought, if the servo or actuator moved a magnet and the pan raising mechanism had a magnet then the magnetic coupling would act as a spring with the pan raised. I can bounce the signal arm on these, a bit like a pan following a wire.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/2091/entry-19079-a-plug-in-signal-mk-1/

[BG John]

I'm hoping to use radio control on my O gauge layout, which means that there will be no power on the track. So I could short out the wheels on some rolling stock, and use a short section of track as a switch to activate an animation when a particular vehicle runs over it. I could have a cattle dock full of cows that disappear when a cattle wagon is parked next to it, and reappear when it returns, but no other wagon would trigger it. Or the same with a platform of passengers when coaches are standing at it.

 

The Deltang RC system has provision for operating servos from the receiver, and also an infrared LED, so could be used to activate movement on the loco with a servo, or trackside events with IR.

 

I've got an 8 channel IR relay board to experiment with too. The plan is to use it for operating point motors, but it could be used for special effects.

 

One thing I would like to do on my O gauge layout is to have "Last Vehicle" boards appearing on the last wagon of a goods train, as the Kent & East Sussex Railway had a dispensation from using brake vans. This might be a use for a cheap "Coke Can" RC car receiver, or some fixed triggers on the layout.

 

I think it would be good to use a variety of methods for operating the efforts, so that if someone works out how one was done, they don't also see how all the others work! The real skill would be making the animation convincing, adding to the effect of the model, and not just being a gimmick.

[BG John]

This is why I thought of having a road behind a hedge or fence. This is a full view of a walking horse, showing a lot of complex movements:

 

 

This is the top half with the movements simplified. Still not straightforward, but far less difficult to animate, especially as the mechanism could be under it and hidden from view:

 

Not much help for a shunting horse operating in an exposed goods yard, but possible if the layout is designed so that wagons are shunted by horse on one siding behind a wall.

 

Anyway, I may never get round to trying any of this, so if someone would like to try my ideas and report back, it might encourage me .

 

[Vecchio]

Interesting ideas. I am very open to this stuff. I have several electric locos which I have fitted with a lifting pantograph (or two in a multisystem loco...) - using memory wire in all but one (central cab model - not long enough for the memory wire) where I use a servo (toki bio metal smart servo). This is small enough to sit under the cabin roof and is invisible for the normal viewer.

I was also crazy enough to take a H0 scale Eurocopter (Roco) and put a motor and battery in it - so you have a heli which you can position everywhere on the layout and the rotorblades are turning. Next to that I made controlled loco shed doors and of course the H0e tipper unloading facility ( see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120156-009-working-tippers/  #20)

 

Vecchio

[Corbs]

What if you had animated armature with the skin stretched over? You could use an elasticated material.

[Talltim]

One day I plan to automate a car parked blocking the line that moves after a period of time. Possibly sound activated so you have to blow the horn for a bit first!

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2004042119155219277.jpg