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Car trains - potential for achieving greater realism


'CHARD
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I've somehow reached a total of 17 Imps Phil, as collateral 'damage,' from harvesting all these Minix-filled Tierwags and Cartics! 

Wow, someone who's got even more than the 14 I have!

One of the nicest models in the range too.

Edited by BernardTPM
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I came across some photos on the NRM website (and may be well known too!) that may be useful for showing the loading and variety of colours on the earlier new car trains:

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%20Transport%20Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_10285

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%20Transport%20Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_10288

 

Hywel

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I came across some photos on the NRM website (and may be well known too!) that may be useful for showing the loading and variety of colours on the earlier new car trains:

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%20Transport%20Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_10285

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=British%20Transport%20Commission&objid=1996-7038_BTF_10288

 

Hywel

 

Ah so that's how you do it .... 4 to a carflat ....wedged in so tight they cant possibly move!

 

Only the rear wheels with chocks too

 

Smashing photos too

 

Phil

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Interesting, all those Bedford TKs and one Ford D series amongst them.  The cars look like a Vivas so not quite an entire train of GM products.  Perhaps the trucks are on the way to a bodybuilder rather than a dealer.  Were Ford making the D series at Langley (Slough) at this time?  Can anyone identify the actual location, is this a view after loading or awaiting unloading?

 

Tony Comber

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O scale VW minibus & van train rollin thru the Rockies. (£1 each from a cheapie store quite a few years ago. The carflats are Lima)

 

post-6884-0-86446700-1330548366.jpg

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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Interesting, all those Bedford TKs and one Ford D series amongst them.  The cars look like a Vivas so not quite an entire train of GM products.  Perhaps the trucks are on the way to a bodybuilder rather than a dealer.  Were Ford making the D series at Langley (Slough) at this time?  Can anyone identify the actual location, is this a view after loading or awaiting unloading?

 

Tony Comber

Click through and the photo link says the location is Luton.

The single white car is a Vauxhall Chevette hatchback, introduced in May 1975, so very new model when the photo was taken in August 1975.

There are more Ford Ds in the distance.

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Are any of the assembled familiar with the car traffic departing these shores using the Harwich boat-train?

 

I'm specifically interested in two eras, 1959 and 1980. My "proposed but never built" is an extension of the Hadleigh branch connecting with the Varsity route so would it be feasible to have products of Luton and Oxford?

 

I understand the motors were driv off the wagons at Harwich onto the boat, any Pugs, Dafs or Fiat's etc come the other way?

 

I lay prostrate at the temple of your wisdom, C6T.

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Ah so that's how you do it .... 4 to a carflat ....wedged in so tight they cant possibly move!

 

Only the rear wheels with chocks too

 

Smashing photos too

 

Phil

 

Those are very interesting photos.  Four to a Carflat is my observation on the WR cartrains too.  But three per Cartic deck is fewer than I'm used-to, possibly a promotion shot.

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Click through and the photo link says the location is Luton.

The single white car is a Vauxhall Chevette hatchback, introduced in May 1975, so very new model when the photo was taken in August 1975.

There are more Ford Ds in the distance.

The Luton/Dunstable area was producing Vauxhall cars, Bedford Trucks, and Commer vans at least when the photo was taken at Luton. I cannot recall why the Ford Ds were there. Carflats and Cartics were loaded in Crescent Road yard.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Project Cartrains rumbles on in the hope and anticipation that one day I will reestablish sufficient man cave space to recommence my layout aspirations....

 

Somewhat taken by the functionally elegant ambience of the Triang Acho car carrier and 'innocent' simplicity of its British Cartic counterpart, one of the former and half a dozen of the latter are currently being used as storage for the featherweight ranks of the plentiful payload Minix.

 

The Halewood/ Speke Jct to Bathgate service now has a pool of 60-odd raw Fords available, and its Ellesmere Port counterpart sufficient Vauxhalls to fill six Carflats.

 

_91519507_fordanglia2.jpg

 

I have mined the web for prototype paint specs, and shortly test pieces will be set up using otherwise scrap bodyshells - Hillman Minx and Austin 1100s.  There will be a preponderance of the typically bland late sixties colours.  The principal repaint donor vehicles will be the distinctly unconvincing pale colour specimens.  Some of the solid colours are nearer to the real thing and attempts will be made to fettle these into usable examples.  Plainly fictional colours will, in the main, be eliminated from the car pool, with the possible exception of the solid dark yellow, blue and red, which do retain a convincing depth.  They are potentially near enough to pass muster for dealer stock!

 

Right, what I need now is a favourable weather forecast for waving rattle-cans around...

 

Meanwhile, I've lost count of the Tierwags that need to be rehomed  :O

Edited by 'CHARD
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A couple of Cartics off eBay landed yesterday.  It never ceases to amaze me what permutations of Minix come with them.

 

In this instance, the two wagons came with 13 and 8 cars respectively. And in both cases, the vehicles were confined to Austin 1100, Morris 1800 and Hillman Minx.   All the Minx were white, the 1100s were pale yellow or dark green, and the 1800s grass green or dark green. The wagons were sourced from different sellers at opposite ends of the country.  I have no reason to believe that the vehicles had been specially selected by the sellers for sale with these wagons - and the coincidence is striking in any event.

 

Anyway, some of these vehicles are destined for the swaps pool.  Much as I'd like to, none of these BLMC products were sent up the WR on company block trains, so the scruffier examples will be populating Tierwags for onward sale.  

 

One of the 1800s will be fettled to represent the grey Landcrab I went home in at two days old - EOP xxx D, and an 1100 to its pale blue successor, NOJ541F.  My uncle's white 1300 will be fashioned as well, KVR742F.

 

 

EDIT: The Sutton Coldfield - Stirling car sleeper would have been diverted over the Waverley off the WCML from time to time; good excuse for a run of the mill Bescot Class 47 and retaining sufficient holidaymakers' cars to fill the half dozen Blue Motorail Carflats!

Edited by 'CHARD
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Planning for the Halewood (Speke Jct) - Bathgate car trains continues.

 

Parking the Corsairs for a bit, as numerically they're unlikely to reach 15% of this pool, I'm starting to work out the paint strategy for the Anglias.  There were fewer than 20 colours offered from the factory, let alone dealer stock, by the end of Anglia production in November '67.  So sensibly, I can restrict the colours of the Carflats' payload to maybe a dozen.  In some cases, alternative colours are indistinguishable in model form, like the two blacks offered (how very Henry Ford!).  Also a couple of the blues and greens are almost impossible to tell apart.  

 

Of the fictional colours, only the solid yellow is being retained - invoking an arcane subclause of Rule 1 - I am creating a backstory that these cars were produced in factory yellow for a commercial user such as Post Office Telephones or British Rail.  The other fictional colours, pale yellow and pale green for example, will be turned over to accurate greens, blues and gold.  I now need to compile an inventory of what colours make up the pool.

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Of the fictional colours, only the solid yellow is being retained - invoking an arcane subclause of Rule 1 - I am creating a backstory that these cars were produced in factory yellow for a commercial user such as Post Office Telephones or British Rail.

Both of those were still using dark green for their service fleets (the yellow was, at that time, only used on BR's collection and delivery fleet, though since 1963). When applied to dark green the double arrow was in white. Perhaps those yellow Anglias are due to be winning prizes in a Welgar's 'Shredded Wheat' win-a-car competition.

 

The 1800 is a pretty nice model of the Mk.I version though the track of the wheels seriously needs widening!

Edited by BernardTPM
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Both of those were still using dark green for their service fleets (the yellow was, at that time, only used on BR's collection and delivery fleet, though since 1963). When applied to dark green the double arrow was in white. Perhaps those yellow Anglias are due to be winning prizes in a Welgar's 'Shredded Wheat' win-a-car competition.

 

The 1800 is a pretty nice model of the Mk.I version though the track of the wheels seriously needs widening!

 

Back to the drawing board for a business consumer of yellow passenger cars then!

 

The tracking of the bigger cars (Victors and Corsairs suffer also) is high on my sorting list.

Edited by 'CHARD
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The tracking of the bigger cars (Victors and Corsairs suffer also) is high on my sorting list.

The Victors will require a little 'excavation' on the inside of the rear wheel arches as the opening slightly covers the very top of the tyre:

post-1877-0-72402300-1492857221_thumb.jpg

 

Here's what it looks like on the inside:

post-1877-0-29255500-1492857122_thumb.jpg

 

The wheels and axles I used were early Herpa ones, bought from Beatties in High Holborn in the late '70s (so the old Bassett-Lowke premises), new then but probably long discontinued now. I added some extra width to the seats and, more importantly, the two extra plastic strips to keep the wider-tracked wheels centred.

The colour is Cypress Green, a very dark green that looks almost black on the model.

Edited by BernardTPM
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Just found a much earlier thread which clearly indicates that Kings Norton to Bathgate block trains ran across the WR carrying Longbridge and Adderley Park products.  

 

Looks like I have found a use for my Landcrabs, 1100s and A60 Farinas.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68623-morris-cowley-car-trains/?p=970319

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EDIT: The Sutton Coldfield - Stirling car sleeper would have been diverted over the Waverley off the WCML from time to time; good excuse for a run of the mill Bescot Class 47 and retaining sufficient holidaymakers' cars to fill the half dozen Blue Motorail Carflats!

 

How prevelant were the blue carflats in the late 60's?, I only ask, as, from the pics and info I have, there didn't seem to be many repaints until a few years later, trains in the period seemed to primarily consist of bauxite carflats with motorail boards, as the car industry had spare capacity in the summer months and loaned out the wagons.

Primarily the reason I haven't pre-ordered any Bachmann or Oxford blue varieties.

 

Mike.

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How prevelant were the blue carflats in the late 60's?, I only ask, as, from the pics and info I have, there didn't seem to be many repaints until a few years later, trains in the period seemed to primarily consist of bauxite carflats with motorail boards, as the car industry had spare capacity in the summer months and loaned out the wagons.

Primarily the reason I haven't pre-ordered any Bachmann or Oxford blue varieties.

 

Mike.

 

Exactly my logic, Mike.  I've done a (planned) bundle on browns and bauxites, but no blues at this stage.  My intuition is that, especially on the flows I'm modelling, there would not be many of the blues on the day-in, day-out automotive company trains at any time.  The daily Motorail services would have received blue wagons as a matter of marketing priority some time, and I guess that would be after the WR closed in my case.  So I think I'm in your camp, unless I do run that diverted exotic Sutton Coldfield - Stirling car sleeper very occasionally!

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I might end up turning this into a blog...  But for now, the updated position on May Day Bank Holiday is thus.  

 

We have established the three regular flows that I will be modelling, all being well: Vauxhall, Ford and BLMC.  

 

A chance internet Cartic find (with 17 loose autos) should inject the required balance of Corsairs into the Halewood pool to enable varied, convincing trains to be represented.  Possibly even at suitable lengths (for photographic purposes at least) with the cheeky trademark double-headed steam combinations of NE + LMS.   I know well of the anecdotal tale where a Kershopefoot resident is said to have counted 100+ new cars on 25+ bogie wagons; I reckon 20 would be sufficiently challenging for a one off photo shoot.

 

A stray Victor has been added to the GM pool, which will now enable a variegated mix of HA and FC in roughly correct proportions for a ten wagon rake once I've herded a few straggling Viva. 

 

I have yet to undertake the audit of Austin vehicles, but am confident there is an over-sufficiency to mix loads up over a 12 wagon rake with relative ease.  A few more Cambridge would be a nice luxury - if only because I truly love the Minix rendition of the prototype!

 

The future block trains are presently corralled onto appropriate configurations of Cartics, making for an interesting diorama and talking point atop the lounge cupboards!!!  Pride of place is a really businesslike sixties Hornby Acho foreigner acting as overspill storage for ten ADO16s.    :angel:

 

All of these donor wagons (except the later Railroad incarnations of the Cartics designed for a part load) will be kept.  As for the horde of donor Tierwags (lost count), my projected savage cuts using the eBay conduit have yet to start.  When they go, I'll probably dispose of Minx, Alpines, Simca, Triumph 2000 and other hangers-on (are there any I forgot?), plus a few ironically spare Oxford diecast.  Anyone fancy a dozen Thames 307E vans?

 

On the technical (what???) side, I'm getting to work on the stance issue.  A number of years ago I was one of those lucky enough to hoover up Herpa spares by the bagload at a shop of legend on Pentonville Road.  That way lie the trials.  My suggested volume modification, however, is to reuse the existing wheels on replacement axles from wire, cut to lengths better suited to the individual car types.  The bank holiday weather was still not calm enough for rattle-can trials on the patio, dare I take that sub-project to the office, for lunch time evaluation?

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  • 1 month later...

Well I never - it's the 1st of June, a month since my last post - so let's just think of this as a blog between friends!  

 

The first batch of Tierwags have been dispatched to their new eBay homes, and that's culled my Hillman Minx, Sunbeam Alpine and Simca 1300 totals accordingly, plus a few runts of the Anglia, 1100 and Imp gene pool (runts being those with missing bumpers - Minix bumpers are a very nice feature when they are entire).  One Tierwag has been dispatched with half a dozen post-72 black wheel/ white chassis on board.  I just can't get on with the austerity plastic those guys are injection-moulded from, whereas some collectors seem to actively seek them.

 

I did my audit of the three makers' pools, and incredibly there's the following 'stock' available for use (totals rounded down to nearest full wagon load):

  • Ford - 80 vehicles (16 Corsair + 64 Anglia) = load 20 Carflats 
  • Vauxhall - 36 vehicles (5 Victor + 31 Viva) = load 9 Carflats
  • BLMC - 76 vehicles (47 1100 + 18 1800 + 6 A60 + 5 Triumph 2000) = load 19 Carflats

I've learned so much about the Minix genre thus far, that I do find them fascinating.  Lovely little models, and until I started this exercise I had never seen an A60, Corsair or Victor in the plastic.  Furthermore, I didn't know they had even been produced!

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There's an obscure little tale behind the Victor, part of which you'd see if you have a boxed car.

 

Ain't got no box car, Willy  :angel:

 

Four of my Corsairs were boxed and came from Spain!  The other ones I've not encountered are the American car (Rambler?) and the Vauxhall Cresta estate.

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Here's the illustration that's on the back of the standard MINIX packaging.

post-1877-0-37804200-1496403036.jpg

 

This shows RC1, RC2 and RC4 to RC7. (RC stands for Rovex Cars). The two anomalies are RC6 Vauxhall Victor and RC7 Ford Corsair. When you look at the actual models RC6 is a Ford Corsair (early models don't have tow hooks, later ones do and the tooling slightly amended to make them the 1964 on V4 version) and while there is a Vauxhall Victor in the range it's number RC11 and the later "101" model.

As was normal with Rovex models, each part has a number. The early models without interiors had five parts, two being the wheel/axle assemblies which almost standard across the range*, so each car has a body, floor and glazing unit each with an 'SC' number (possibly 'Spares Car' or 'Sub-component Car?). In the first five models these run in a complete numerical sequence as follows:

 

           body        floor       glazing

RC1  SC1011   SC1012   SC1013

RC2  SC1014   SC1015   SC1016

RC3  SC1017   SC1018   SC1019

RC4  SC1020   SC1021   SC1022

RC5  SC1023   SC1024   SC1025

 

Now, here's where the plot thickens. The next model produced, RC6 Ford Corsair

 

RC6  SC1029   SC1030   SC1031

 

i.e. what would have been the seventh consecutive set of numbers, which would match the originally intended number, the sixth set (SC1026-8) being omitted. These, I suggest, would have been the parts for the original RC6 Vauxhall Victor (1963-64 facelifted FB model). At the time Vauxhall were replacing their cars on a three-year cycle so by the time they came to doing the tooling the FB Victor had been replaced (October 1964) by the FC '101' model.

It's possible that no work had been done on the FB model, but in real life the FB Victor and PB Cresta share the same doors so if some design or even spark erosion tools had been started they could have been useful in tooling up the RC15 Cresta estate.

 

Both the RC15 Vauxhall Cresta Estate and RC17 Rambler Classic 770 are rare models; I was lucky to pickup a Cresta estate (along with a handful of others) from the Fratton Bargain shop in the early 1980s and swap a rare 'Playpacks' trailer for a couple more blister packed examples in the '90s. The Rambler and the Simca 1300 are the only foreign cars in the range. All the cars were current models in 1964.

The other 'odd' model is RC14 AEC Reliant/Strachans bus which is around 1:130 scale, nicely matching the Matchbox No.74 (74B) Fleetline bus.

 

* RC13 (Ford 15cwt Thames van), RC15 & RC17 use a larger wheel with a slightly wider track.

 

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