Car trains - potential for achieving greater realism

['CHARD]

Great info, Bernard - many thanks for sharing.  I have half a dozen of those boxes, and I have stared at the Victor but 'seen' the Cresta every time!  Now it all becomes clear - despite the fact that it had never clicked with me before that the car on the box had never actually been produced!!!  No estates for me, especially at eBay prices - but with a few more GM vehicles I'll be perfectly happy.

 

Note: Hattons email today advising that the Oxford Carflats are expected this month; my wallet shivers....

Edited June 5, 2017 by 'CHARD

[mikeharvey22]

First Carflat release now in stock in the Oxford online shop:-

 

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/new-in/products/carflat-br-or76car001

[PhilJ W]

Well I never - it's the 1st of June, a month since my last post - so let's just think of this as a blog between friends!  

 

The first batch of Tierwags have been dispatched to their new eBay homes, and that's culled my Hillman Minx, Sunbeam Alpine and Simca 1300 totals accordingly, plus a few runts of the Anglia, 1100 and Imp gene pool (runts being those with missing bumpers - Minix bumpers are a very nice feature when they are entire).  One Tierwag has been dispatched with half a dozen post-72 black wheel/ white chassis on board.  I just can't get on with the austerity plastic those guys are injection-moulded from, whereas some collectors seem to actively seek them.

 

I did my audit of the three makers' pools, and incredibly there's the following 'stock' available for use (totals rounded down to nearest full wagon load):

• Ford - 80 vehicles (16 Corsair + 64 Anglia) = load 20 Carflats 
• Vauxhall - 36 vehicles (5 Victor + 31 Viva) = load 9 Carflats
• BLMC - 76 vehicles (47 1100 + 18 1800 + 6 A60 + 5 Triumph 2000) = load 19 Carflats

I've learned so much about the Minix genre thus far, that I do find them fascinating.  Lovely little models, and until I started this exercise I had never seen an A60, Corsair or Victor in the plastic.  Furthermore, I didn't know they had even been produced!

Some are rarer than others, the Rambler followed by the Cresta estate are the rarest, the Victor 101 is not at all common either but does pop up now and then. Other models in the range are a Simca and Thames 400E van and Hillman Imp, not common but not too rare either, and a Sunbeam Alpine which is very common. Also in the range is a caravan and a builders trailer. The caravan is a small one suitable for the smaller cars. The builders trailer which is quite rare utilised the caravan base. An odd item in the range is a single deck bus, its scale is somewhere between TT and N scale, probably because it uses the stamped alloy wheels of the cars. I have two of the 1100 models in unusual colours, one is in a deep maroon colour and the other is black, I have never seen any others in those colours in the range.

[DCB]

When I started in the motor trade in a British Leyland dealership 1973 the cars arrived covered in wax, whether driven or delivered by transporter and I believe this had been the accepted method of avoiding damage to paintwork for many years previously.  The wax had the  appearance of milky matt varnish, very matt no shine what so ever.   It washed off with paraffin to leave a factory fresh ripply orange peel effect with occasional blemishes we had to touch up before sale.   The cars were painted body colour underneath and we undersealed them with black gunge after the pre delivery inspection.

The cars came without number plates, and the BL ones had just two brackets for the front plate, there was no backing plate.   Equally the back panel had a number plate light but no backing plate and some people fitted seven digit in line number plates and some two row "Square" plates to the same model.

We always preferred "New" cars to be delivered by road. we were  about 45 miles from Longbridge 30 from Cowley. The delivery drivers gave the cars a good thrashing and bedded in the piston rings before some old codger spent 1000 miles driving at 38 mph to run it in.   If it came by Transporter he old codger got it with 5 miles on the clock and crawled around at 38 mph it glazed the piston rings and the oil consumption was hopeless, mind you BL reckoned 350 miles per pint of oil was acceptable oil consumption!  

The awkward problem with representing new car trains as opposed to the public "Motorail" service is the cars were all new and current models, many models changed on a 3 or 4 year cycle so really only the Minic Hillman Imp and BMC 1100 (62 - 72?) covers a reasonable number of years.

Edited June 16, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[BernardTPM]

I have two of the 1100 models in unusual colours, one is in a deep maroon colour and the other is black, I have never seen any others in those colours in the range.

While black isn't that common, I do have several, mostly Ford Corsairs. I don't have Minix any in maroon, though I've heard of it.

 

The awkward problem with representing new car trains as opposed to the public "Motorail" service is the cars were all new and current models, many models changed on a 3 or 4 year cycle so really only the Minic Hillman Imp and BMC 1100 (62 - 72?) covers a reasonable number of years.

Interesting inside info!

There are subtle details that restrict the date of the Imp, but you'd have to be looking in close-up detail to spot them. The Imp was discontinued in 1976. The 1100s were revised to Mk.II format in 1967 which gave them new, more sloped tail lights. These lights were later (1969) applied to the FX4 taxi where they were used until the model's demise in 1997.

Edited June 16, 2017 by BernardTPM

[mikeharvey22]

 

We always preferred "New" cars to be delivered by road. we were  about45 miles from Longbridge 30 from Cowley. The delivery drivers gave the cars a good thrashing and bedded in the piston rings before some old codger spent 1000 miles driving at 38 mph to run it in.   If it came by Transporter he old codger got it with 5 miles on the clock and crawled around it was hopeless and BL reckoned 350 miles per pint of oil was acceptable oil consumption!  

 

 

​When I worked at Luton there were a few drivers doing the shuttle from the factory to Crescent Road Goods yard whose party piece was to get the engines repeatedly backfiring as they drove the brand new car along. Not impressed.

['CHARD]

While black isn't that common, I do have several, mostly Ford Corsairs. I don't have Minix any in maroon, though I've heard of it.

 

 

These lights were later (1969) applied to the FX4 taxi where they were used until the model's demise in 1997.

 

I have raked-in a few blacks over the course of this process - will look later at what they are, Victor and Anglia I think being two.  

 

Lovely detail about the FX4 taxi - I always suspected something but never bothered to find out what it was, I think I guessed they were MGB lights or something similar!!!

['CHARD]

I have two of the 1100 models in unusual colours, one is in a deep maroon colour and the other is black, I have never seen any others in those colours in the range.

 

I have certainly gathered a maroon 1100 or two, will check for others.

[mikeharvey22]

Back up the thread we had the intriguing photo of a train of Bedford TKs with one Ford D series mixed in, at Luton.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121228-car-trains-potential-for-achieving-greater-realism/?p=2666270

 

Today I splashed out on the "Vintage Roadscene" special " The light brigade - vans, pick-ups and light commercials". Page 96 has a picture taken at Luton, Crescent Road which has a carflat train in the background with a mix of HA vans, TKs, HB Viva Estate, and another larger Vauxhall (FD Victor/Ventora?). Alongside are a couple of truck chassis with bonneted cabs but which I cannot identify from the angle of the photo. Someone will know what they are.

 

The main subject of the photo is a Bedford KM artic and a milk float transhipping a load of milk crates. What looks like a brown liveried CovAB sneaks into a corner of the photo.

 

My magazine came from WHSmith.

 

Edit:- corrected page number

Edited June 21, 2017 by mikeharvey22

[Fat Controller]

Back up the thread we had the intriguing photo of a train of Bedford TKs with one Ford D series mixed in, at Luton.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121228-car-trains-potential-for-achieving-greater-realism/?p=2666270

 

Today I splashed out on the "Vintage Roadscene" special " The light brigade - vans, pick-ups and light commercials". Page 90 has a picture taken at Luton, Crescent Road which has a carflat train in the background with a mix of HA vans, TKs, HB Viva Estate, and another larger Vauxhall (FD Victor/Ventora?). Alongside are a couple of truck chassis with bonneted cabs but which I cannot identify from the angle of the photo. Someone will know what they are.

 

The main subject of the photo is a Bedford KM artic and a milk float transhipping a load of milk crates. What looks like a brown liveried CovAB sneaks into a corner of the photo.

 

My magazine came from WHSmith.

J or TJ type? A 'normal-control' contemporary of the TK, used as the chassis for the Bedford-Lomas ambulance.

[mikeharvey22]

A snip from a bit of the image.

 

http://servimg.com/view/12125302/166

Edited June 21, 2017 by mikeharvey22

[PhilJ W]

A snip from a bit of the image.

 

http://servimg.com/view/12125302/166

Certainly a TJ those rear windows are quite distinctive. Production of the TJ continued right up until the end of lorry production at Bedford, all went for export.

[Fat Controller]

Certainly a TJ those rear windows are quite distinctive. Production of the TJ continued right up until the end of lorry production at Bedford, all went for export.

Here's an Australian one:-http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p157466816/h41093f0#h41093f0

and a Maltese one:- http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p157466816/h9707694#h9707694

Some of the earlier ones were sold on the home market; I remember a coal merchant in Llanelli with one.

['CHARD]

Here's an Australian one:-http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p157466816/h41093f0#h41093f0

and a Maltese one:- http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p157466816/h9707694#h9707694

Some of the earlier ones were sold on the home market; I remember a coal merchant in Llanelli with one.

 

Great website, Brian!  

 

Now to watch several hours of my life evaporate....  

[BernardTPM]

A snip from a bit of the image.

 

http://servimg.com/view/12125302/166

And the car is indeed an FD Victor. Given it doesn't appear to have the strake between the wheelarches that would suggest 1967-69 and the wheels themselves mark it as the Victor rather than the more expensive Victor 2000. The first COV ABs appeared in 1969, I believe, so that suggests the photo was taken in that year, but before the Autumn.

The TJ series was used by W H Smith well into the 1970s orange/brown era (brown cabs, orange box body, white WHS 'box').

['CHARD]

The TJ series was used by W H Smith well into the 1970s orange/brown era (brown cabs, orange box body, white WHS 'box').

 

Ooooof!  Now that's a great memory-trigger!

 

By now I'm lost in this website of incredible artifacts though...  http://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p157466816/h399324DA#h399324da

 

and  http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/ate/tec/yellow2.html

Edited June 21, 2017 by 'CHARD

[Alister_G]

Some of the earlier ones were sold on the home market; I remember a coal merchant in Llanelli with one.

 

When I worked for the GPO (latterly British Telecom) in the early eighties we had quite a few Bedford J3 jointers-gang wagons like this:

 

 

 

I had a feeling BR S & T had some as well.

 

 

Al

Edited July 8, 2017 by acg_mr

[RANGERS]

 

When I worked for the GPO (latterly British Telecom) in the early eighties we had quite a few Bedford J3 jointers-gang wagons like this:

 

 

 

I had a feeling BR S & T had some as well.

 

 

Al

 

I remember these well, we had a couple of them in my days with BT from 1981, from memory they were M and R reg ones. The TJ was available on the home market right up to GM selling Bedford in 1986, and possibly after AWD and finally Marshalls took it on, but was special order and I doubt there were many built. York Truck Equipment at Corby carried out chassis mods to huge numbers of them, both right and left hand drive variants. They would be parked up in a compound adjacent to what is now the BR/ Network Rail branch in to Tata Steel, it was still BSC owned at the time. I guess most would probably have been destined for export but some may have been home market

[billy_anorak59]

You may have seen this, and possibly a bit later than the time period you're after, but a nice shot on the excellent 'Derby Sulzers' website showing brand new Ellesmere Port built Vauxhall Viva HCs loaded on flats at Hooton in 1972.

 

http://www.derbysulzers.com/5052hooton72.jpg

 

Cheers

['CHARD]

You may have seen this, and possibly a bit later than the time period you're after, but a nice shot on the excellent 'Derby Sulzers' website showing brand new Ellesmere Port built Vauxhall Viva HCs loaded on flats at Hooton in 1972.

 

http://www.derbysulzers.com/5052hooton72.jpg

 

Cheers

 

Oh that's a lovely photo - everything about it has changed, too, which makes it so irresistible. 

[BernardTPM]

There's a nice metallic green 4 headlight Firenza too, though still with 'boring' hubcap wheels rather than Rostyles.

[acg5324]

My first car was a Viva HC British racing green(ish) with black vinyl roof 1973 model 6 years old when I bought it. RMD183L

['CHARD]

Well yesterday I finally re-established my workbench after the best part of a decade in the wilderness.

 

The domestic authorities had served notice on the stockpiled Minix output of Ellesmere Port, Halewood and BLMC's various factories, so now that inventory is waiting to be loaded onto Carflats.

 

A quick check found quite a few vehicles were already in PKD or CKD format, with chassis, axles and in a few cases, glazing all separable.  So these are now in their constituent components ready for detailing and upcycling!

 

I've found the Ford paint references applicable to Corsair and Anglia models.  Corsair are as follows:

 

 

AZ Imperial Maroon

BA Ermine White

BM Windsor Grey

BR Goodwood Green

BS Monaco Red

BT Aqua Blue

BU Platinum Grey

BX Tuscan Yellow

BY Glacier Blue

BZ Spruce Green

CD (1965) Lombard Grey

CF (1965) Alcuda Blue

CG (1965) Malibu Gold

CM  (1965) Alpina Green

M Ambassador Blue

 

The BLMC paint colours are as the attached picture.

 

Now to establish which Minix donor colours become which manufacturers' colours, then to buy some rattle-cans!

[BernardTPM]

For HA Vivas, colours are shown in these brochures. Here's those for the FC Victor 101s.

[fodenway]

 

Well yesterday I finally re-established my workbench after the best part of a decade in the wilderness.

 

The domestic authorities had served notice on the stockpiled Minix output of Ellesmere Port, Halewood and BLMC's various factories, so now that inventory is waiting to be loaded onto Carflats.

 

A quick check found quite a few vehicles were already in PKD or CKD format, with chassis, axles and in a few cases, glazing all separable.  So these are now in their constituent components ready for detailing and upcycling!

 

I've found the Ford paint references applicable to Corsair and Anglia models.  Corsair are as follows:

 

 

AZ Imperial Maroon

BA Ermine White

BM Windsor Grey

BR Goodwood Green

BS Monaco Red

BT Aqua Blue

BU Platinum Grey

BX Tuscan Yellow

BY Glacier Blue

BZ Spruce Green

CD (1965) Lombard Grey

CF (1965) Alcuda Blue

CG (1965) Malibu Gold

CM  (1965) Alpina Green

M Ambassador Blue

 

The BLMC paint colours are as the attached picture.BLMC colours 68.jpg

 

Now to establish which Minix donor colours become which manufacturers' colours, then to buy some rattle-cans!

 

Be VERY careful using aerosol paints on Minix plastics, I've tried several from different manufacturers over many years - CarPlan, Dupli-Color, Halfords and Hycote amongst them, and every time I've ended up with what I can only describe as "swirl marks" on the surface. Try on a scrap body first! (If anyone knows of a "safe" combination of primers and paints to use, please let us know.)