Possible new commissions?

[Hilux5972]

Yes exactly Roy.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

From my view whether it says possible new commissions or wishlisting it means the exact same thing.

 

It means typing loco numbers and liveries in the comments for suggestions. No where in this thread does it say that their is a restricted amount of suggestions that you can make and this is what the thread is for. How do retailers know what they want to commission manufacturers to produce if they don't ask the public to make suggestsions and for their input.

 

All of the locos that I have suggested are good suggestions as far as I am concerned. The majority are 37s and 66s which considering that Bachmann are producing these left, right and centre at the moment I don't see the problem with suggesting more of them.

 

Regarding the 37s they are something that I would like to see produced personally because they cost too much to have produced. At least £120 for a Compass base model (37402 or 37405), wipac noses are £35, the cost to actually have the noses changed and fitted and then to make the lights work, the cost of the lights and Special Delivery signed for postage both ways. This could cost £265 per loco to just have one converted. This is far too expensive and Bachmann could produced them for a lot less either as a standard model, Limited Edition or Special Edition.

Edited June 1, 2017 by DRS Crewe On A Mission

[tamperman36]

how about

47325 in original railfrieght with Tinsley painted name Red Rum

47012 in BR blue with Tinsley painted name Magpie

any of Tinsley's 08s,37s,45s or 47s with painted names

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

32-780 Bachmann 37 261 in original DRS livery limited edition.

32-392 Bachmann 37 688 in DRS Compass livery

32-393 Bachmann 37 884 in Europhoenix livery

 

All 2017 announcements and available without expensive tooling modifications. I know if you desire a particular (in this case sub-class) you will try and make a valid case for it but in the current climate of increasing cost's why would you (risk?) developing/altering tooling if you don't have too.

 

Steve

 

Sorry I must have missed this comment.

 

I completely agree and see your point.

 

Bachmann may as well make the most use of the tooling that they already have. Bachmann have also just released another batch of DRS Compass 37405 and Colas Rail 37421. 37424/37558 has also been announced as a Limited Edition pack. This makes good use of the domino noses and lighting but sooner or later they are going to run out of options when using this tooling.

 

Hopefully an upgrade in the tooling will happen to produce other 37s sooner or later.

[John M Upton]

Another point is there are loads of other possible subjects out there, contrary to some of the wish listers here, the world does not solely contain locomotives painted blue with compasses on the sides....

[tamperman36]

there are plenty of upto date liveried models around today, but what about BR blue early 70s to 80s

[Hilux5972]

How do retailers know what they want to commission manufacturers to produce if they don't ask the public to make suggestsions and for input.

That's exactly the point. Rail's has not asked for suggestions or input. This thread was started by a fellow member asking about what area people think they will commission models from. Not exactly what models people want. Very different thing. Perhaps Andy Y could give us an idea of whether he considers this thread to wish listy.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

That's exactly the point. Rail's has not asked for suggestions or input. This thread was started by a fellow member asking about what area people think they will commission models from. Not exactly what models people want. Very different thing. Perhaps Andy Y could give us an idea of whether he considers this thread to wish listy.

 

I was advised by Rails themselves on another thread to make suggestions on this thread.

 

I don't see the problem with wishlisting or making suggestions for future commissions. Either way I alike every other member am allowed to express my views and opinions.

 

I am simply listing loco numbers and liveries. I don't see the problem here.

 

I have acknowledged that some people may agree with my suggestions and some people may disagree.

[cal.n]

I think adding Wipac noses needs to be done by Bachmann at some point if they are to remain the 1st choice for 37s. Investing in tooling now is much better than realising that all 37s on the network have it at some point and none can be made by Bachmann and we all have to pay an extra £35 for every (modern) 37 and we have no choice.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I think adding Wipac noses needs to be done by Bachmann at some point if they are to remain the 1st choice for 37s. Investing in tooling now is much better than realising that all 37s on the network have it at some point and none can be made by Bachmann and we all have to pay an extra £35 for every (modern) 37 and we have no choice.

 

It's good to hear that other people think that Bachmann need to upgrade their Class 37 to incorporate the new noses and wipac lighting.

 

Surely with all of the different liveries that they wear now and in the future this makes it more worthwhile and financially viable.

[No Decorum]

I think adding Wipac noses needs to be done by Bachmann at some point if they are to remain the 1st choice for 37s.

An interesting choice of words. The only other choice I can think of is someone approaching ViTrains to modify that tooling. I have a couple of ViTrains’ 37s and I rather like them. 

[John M Upton]

I think the Vi-Trains ship as regards their UK outline stuff has well and truly sailed off into the sunset sadly.

[No Decorum]

I think the Vi-Trains ship as regards their UK outline stuff has well and truly sailed off into the sunset sadly.

You’re probably right. I was thinking about how the 47s were modifed to such good effect.

[black and decker boy]

I think adding Wipac noses needs to be done by Bachmann at some point if they are to remain the 1st choice for 37s. Investing in tooling now is much better than realising that all 37s on the network have it at some point and none can be made by Bachmann and we all have to pay an extra £35 for every (modern) 37 and we have no choice.

I think the number fitted with WIPACs is still a minority, even now and other than 37608 & 611, they have only ever worn variants of DRS blue. Even then, there are big detail differences across those fitted with WIPACs so getting all types RTR is most unlikely.

 

The possibilities with the existing tooling are pretty much endless but it's possible Bachmann will do a WIPAC nose if a common appearance can be settled upon but I would think that would need the 20/3s to sell out quickly before they commit.

 

Obviously the other way is to buy the replacement cab ends and do a bit of modelling.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

I think the number fitted with WIPACs is still a minority, even now and other than 37608 & 611, they have only ever worn variants of DRS blue. Even then, there are big detail differences across those fitted with WIPACs so getting all types RTR is most unlikely.

 

The possibilities with the existing tooling are pretty much endless but it's possible Bachmann will do a WIPAC nose if a common appearance can be settled upon but I would think that would need the 20/3s to sell out quickly before they commit.

 

Obviously the other way is to buy the replacement cab ends and do a bit of modelling.

 

See their are quite a few 37s with the new noses and wipac lighting but because their are three variations it's not something that can be easily replicated to create the whole fleet with only one modification/upgrade to the tooling. This is a shame in the aspect of Bachmann are less likely to produce them in a hurry.

 

The locos with new noses and wipac lighting are:

 

038, 059, 069, 218, 259, 423, 602, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611 and 612.

 

So that's fifteen locos in total with three types of noses.

 

Personally I wouldn't expect Bachmann to produce the door noses/locos as only 602 and 605 have these. Also R3Sprays and Olivia's Trains have produced 605 as a Limited Edition model and also did several resprays and conversions numbered 602.

 

It would be good if the flush noses and headcode noses/locos could be produced. That would allow thirteen locos to be produced. Obviously it's unlikely that all of them would be produced but certainly some numbers and liveries could be selected and then renumbered by modellers/collectors if they wanted to. Yes these locos do have minor differences but I would be quite happy to ignore these if I was going to renumber some locos to other locos.

 

The advantage here is that two modifications to the tooling as opposed to three would make it more possible and viable and their are at least seven liveries to model and potentially more in the future.

 

It's a shame that Bachmann don't have these 37s listed in the wishlist poll that I think they do once every year. I'm sure if these 37s were on the list they would be quite popular.

[black and decker boy]

These are the 37s with original lighting on cabs that remain operational on the mainline this year:

 

37 025 / 057 / 099 / 116 / 175 / 219 / 254 / 401 / 402 / 403 / 405 / 407 / 409 / 419 / 421 / 422 / 424 / 425 / 516 / 518 / 601 / 603 / 604 / 668 / 669 / 685 / 716 / 800 / 884

 

97 301 / 302 / 303 / 304

 

There are also others possibly to make a come back

37 146 / 188 / 207 / 521 / 901

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

These are the 37s with original lighting on cabs that remain operational on the mainline this year:

 

37 025 / 057 / 099 / 116 / 175 / 219 / 254 / 401 / 402 / 403 / 405 / 407 / 409 / 419 / 421 / 422 / 424 / 425 / 516 / 518 / 601 / 603 / 604 / 668 / 669 / 685 / 716 / 800 / 884

 

97 301 / 302 / 303 / 304

 

There are also others possibly to make a come back

37 146 / 188 / 207 / 521 / 901

 

Thank you for the list. I really appreciate it.

 

What is just as good is that many of the above haven't been produced by Bachmann yet.

 

These are: 057, 116, 175, 219, 254, 403, 407, 419, 422, 425, 516, 518, 601, 603, 604, 668, 669, 685, 716, 800, 301 and 302.

 

*254 hasn't been produced in Colas Rail livery yet, 422 hasn't been produced in DRS blue yet and 425 hasn't been produced in DRS Compass livery yet.

 

It's good to see that Bachmann have lots of opportunities to model current and active in traffic Class 37s as well as the ones with the new noses and wipac lighting.

[James Makin]

Thank you for the list. I really appreciate it.

 

What is just as good is that many of the above haven't been produced by Bachmann yet.

 

These are: 057, 116, 175, 219, 254, 403, 407, 419, 422, 425, 516, 518, 601, 603, 604, 668, 669, 685, 716, 800, 301 and 302.

 

*254 hasn't been produced in Colas Rail livery yet, 422 hasn't been produced in DRS blue yet and 425 hasn't been produced in DRS Compass livery yet.

 

It's good to see that Bachmann have lots of opportunities to model current and active in traffic Class 37s as well as the ones with the new noses and wipac lighting.

 

 

I'd definitely recommend having a go at a splash of modelling Danny! Bachmann aren't ever going to do all of those models, and even if they do, they won't be that great I'm sure! They all look rather identical, a bit bodged from generic tooling and way too clean! Any Bachmann (or other manufacturer's loco) no matter how recently released, needs hours of modelling work to get them looking vaguely realistic, so it's almost worth resigning yourself to adopting a DIY approach and bashing your own loco fleet!

 

I'm sure I've even seen some more recent Bachmann Class 37 releases with awful printed-on nose socket detail on the fronts of some of their locos, this is bringing back memories of the early-2000s models with printed on panel line details like their 'Deltics' and 2nd Batch Class 37s when the bodyside 'trench' got briefly removed...! 

 

As always it's a time vs money thing with modelling - the £35 figure to add some light on the front of a loco is crazy money but if you've not got the time/skills then fair play, but I reckon if you're already renumbering locos, just keep going and hone those modelling skills, be prepared to dare a little, make a few mistakes along the way (I make a lot!) and you can save a fortune here! Practice painting and modelling on some old Lima locos or cheap throwaway wagons and then you'll be building those unusual DRS 37s in no time, and the best bit is, not many other people will have the same ones as you!

 

Cheers,

James

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

May I clarify some points.

 

- I was strictly suggesting the 37/6 is considered as an exclusive/limited edition/commission for Rails Exclusive.

 

- Yes the top-light might be considered to require a new roof tooling, this would then be an additional slide created along with the nose ends. Not out of the way for a commissioner to take on. And roof's for the 37 have previously been re-tooled for Rail Exclusives (not to be confused with Rails Exclusive). This demonstrates is it more than possible for a commissioner to have Bachmann re-tool a 37 and even DRS liveries were offered back in 2010 through such a successful initiative. 

 

 

- Utterly agree the Brush works refurbished 37/6s are niche, yet: 1. This is why it appeals as an exclusive/limited edition/commission. 2. Many other 'niche' locomotives (steam, diesel and electric) have been brought to market by commissioner's and 3. Some of these comissions have had less of a time on a network/livery than the 37/6s.

 

- I was not suggesting all numbers and tooling alterations needed to be offered, that would be business suicide. I was pointing to the potential, for then a commissioner to select a most suitable locomotive tooling assembly to choose.

 

- Within the 'modern' modelling era. Direct Rail Services livery is extremely popular with recent main range releases from Bachmann, ViTrains and Dapol selling very quickly.

 

- The risk of a 37/6 to the main range in being niche is countered by a commission of 1000-2000 in different liveries which the market could take and has proven to with other DRS releases.

 

- I also totally agree that the 20/3 is clearly a test case for Bachmann in the main range, so is the re-tooling of 37099 to similar extent. Thus as above the risk is lessened by being an exclusive/limited edition commission by Rails Exclusive who seem to be well aware of the modern locomotive market.

 

- It was never my intention to make the thread a wishlist of every single ex-Brush works 37 for DRS, only to demonstrate the potential of chosen one or two possible tenders to consider.

 

Thus I shall start a specific debate, by choosing out of the Brush works refurbished 37s could be chosen to commission Bachmann to re-tool.

 

 

Clearly it would be wise to choose from 606-609 to best maximise a revised roof tooling and new nose ends. The variation between these is minimal and inline with similar compromises taken for any modern 37/4 in DRS livery.

 

Say if 37608 is chosen, this then see all DRS as well as Europhoenix liveries. That is 3 liveries which could easily justify 750 pieces each and enough to justify a re-tooling over a 2000 model run. (Naturally the tooling for 37608 allows 606-609 and thus another livery or two over a 2000 commission run).

 

This gives potentially with one re-tooling:

 

DRS Compass twin pack of 37607 and 609 (2 x 500)

Europhoenix 37608 (500)

Original DRS 37606 (500)

 

None of the numbers clash, thus different modern eras can be modeled. Tooling would allow in the future HNRC or DRS Green-fade liveries.

 

- 2000 is based on known previous commission numbers by other commissioners. eg. London Transport Museum or Rail Exclusives.

- Re-tooling (pre-Brexit) a logical estimation would be 20-35 k including R&D.

- A model retailing around £160 based on todays RRP seems perfectly acceptable in todays market when looking at other current exclusives.

 

The whole point of limited editions/commissions is to bring to market the niche locomotive or rolling stock. Certainly I would argue the ex-brush 37 works fits that.

 

I look forward to further, specific discussion on a reality of a commission rather than every single model.

 

I was thinking about the 37/6s again yesterday.

 

My idea is that if two of the three new noses could be produced. I think that the flush and headcode noses are the best and most worthwhile if the tooling was upgraded. I think it would be pointless producing the locos with the door noses because this only accounts for 602 and 605. 605 has already been produced as a Limited Edition by R3Sprays and Olivia's Trains a few years ago. This would probably mean that it would be impossible for it to be produced again as another Limited Edition commissioned by another retailer a few years later. This just leaves 602 and it wouldn't be financially viable to upgrade the tooling to produce one loco. This wouldn't make sense at all.

 

So focusing on the flush and headcode noses.

 

I was thinking two different batches. Batch one could include the main liveries that the locos have worn the longest.

 

Batch One

 

37606 & 37607 in DRS Compass livery as a twin pack

37608 in original DRS Blue

37609 in DRS Revised livery

 

Batch Two

 

37423 in DRS Basic livery

37608 & 37611 in Europhoenix livery as a twin pack

37607 & 37612 in HNRC Orange (possibly, if and when they are repainted) as a twin pack

37610 in BR Large Logo Blue livery

 

This would then also allow an opportunity for a third batch if their was evidence from batches one and two that their was still further demand.

 

37608 & 37611 in DRS Plain Blue with Europhoenix logos as a twin pack

37038 or 059 or 69 as a single model

 

This would allow for all of the different liveries to be produced which would cover a lot of the running numbers which would make the upgrade to the tooling more worthwhile.

 

The reason that I have suggested 606 and 607 in DRS Compass livery as a twin pack is so that Revised liveried 609 could be included in batch one.

 

I am aware that 610 and 612 have slight differences when compared with 606-609. Personally I wouldn't mind these minor differences been overlooked if we got to see 610 in BR Large Logo Blue and 612 in (possibly) HNRC livery produced.

 

The idea of the three different batches is that if batch one sells well this would suggest that their would be demand for the newer liveries in batch two.

 

Batch three is merely a suggestion as 609 in DRS Revised could be renumbered to 038, 059 and 069 and their may not be demand for 608 and 611 in DRS Plain Blue with the Europhoenix logos, especially now that they have both been repainted into Europhoenix livery.

 

I'm sure that batches one and two would be good sellers.

 

As I have previously mentioned these are my own ideas and suggestions. Some may agree and some may disagree.

Edited June 22, 2017 by DRS Crewe On A Mission

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

Just been thinking again...

 

It wouldn't make sense to produce 608 three times. It also wouldn't make sense to produce 611 twice.

 

Really batch three can be ignored because I'm sure the majority of people would rather have 608 and 611 in Europhoenix livery as opposed to plain DRS blue.

 

Also 609 from batch one can be renumbered to 038, 059, 069 and 218. So really they wouldn't need to be produced as 609 could just be renumbered.

 

I'm also not sure if 610 in BR Large Logo Blue would sell as a minimum of 504 models.

 

What does everyone think about my suggestions for batches one and two?

[Nick G]

 

 

Also 609 from batch one can be renumbered to 038, 059, 069 and 218. 

 

 

 

 

No it couldn't.

[DavidM]

You're also forgetting that 37423 would need a new front tooling to accommodate the ETH socket and the /0s would need new body toolings to accommodate the top light - the refurbished grille body can't be reused from the /6s on the unrefub grilled /0s.

The more this subject is researched the more of a minefield of details it becomes. You aren't going to cover quite as wide a number of locos as you think with a small number of tooling mods.

[fozzy280472]

A blue class 45 with sealed beam headlights.......surely got to be a better seller than a number of basically similar niche 37s in liveries that only seem to last a year or two .

I've been buying on eBay for years and have noticed 70s/80s BR blue locos always seem to go for a premium, either the manufacturers are not producing enough of them or there are an awful lot of 70s/80s BR blue layouts we don't know about !

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

No it couldn't.

 

Or if you didn't want to model another loco, you don't have to renumber 609 at all. Personally though I would so that I could have 038, 059, 069 and 218. I'm not fussed about the minor differences. Apart from the noses and some of the 37s having horns on either side of the top light and some not I haven't noticed any other noticeable differences.

 

You're also forgetting that 37423 would need a new front tooling to accommodate the ETH socket and the /0s would need new body toolings to accommodate the top light - the refurbished grille body can't be reused from the /6s on the unrefub grilled /0s.

 

The more this subject is researched the more of a minefield of details it becomes. You aren't going to cover quite as wide a number of locos as you think with a small number of tooling mods.

 

Thank you for making me aware of that. 038, 059, 069 and 218 don't have to be produced if the tooling isn't the same on the 0s and 6s.

[Nick G]

 I'm not fussed about the minor differences. 

 

 

 

They are not minor differences the nose side grilles are completely different as 609 is a refurbished body and 038,059, 069 and 219 are not.