Olivia's Trains BOC VBA and Cryogenics TEA

[black and decker boy]

Something is happening, my order for 2 Nitrogen tanks placed on Monday has been updated today as Picked so maybe more stock has arrived. Either that or I’m getting a near empty box.

[dogbox321]

Had a couple of TEA's turn up today.

 

Whilst I know they were exclusive etc., I think the wagon is very nice - but £45 is plenty for a relatively simple wagon.  Probably expect to see them in EFE range in a couple of years time.  But based on Bachmanns normal TEA price of £60, I would not expect them to be cheap!

 

A diagram to aid where the parts go, would have been a useful inclusion.

 

Best Wishes, 

 

Chris.

[lyneux]

8 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

A diagram to aid where the parts go, would have been a useful inclusion.

Sadly, I don’t think they (whoever did the research for this wagon) knew as it turns out that the tank barrel is a mixture of features from the three different styles that existed.

 

For example, it has discs on the upper body side (correct for some of the wagons) but only on one side and not both.

 

I’ve done a full write up on the DEMU wiki of the detail differences.

 

My four will take a bit of carving of plastic to get right!

 

Guy

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, lyneux said:

Sadly, I don’t think they (whoever did the research for this wagon) knew as it turns out that the tank barrel is a mixture of features from the three different styles that existed.

 

For example, it has discs on the upper body side (correct for some of the wagons) but only on one side and not both.

 

I’ve done a full write up on the DEMU wiki of the detail differences.

 

My four will take a bit of carving of plastic to get right!

 

Guy

 

Thats pretty shocking if they're still not right on what was priced as a £75 wagon

[WILLIAM]

1 hour ago, lyneux said:

 

For example, it has discs on the upper body side (correct for some of the wagons) but only on one side and not both.

 

 

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, fingers crossed, but I thought from the pictures on Hattons website that they got this detail correct at least on BOC16 (0014)?

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/450705/heljan_boc16_100_ton_boc_tank_in_boc_liquid_nitrogen_livery_with_red_stripe_and_gps_bogies_0/stockdetail.aspx

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by WILLIAM

[66738]

2 hours ago, lyneux said:

Sadly, I don’t think they (whoever did the research for this wagon) knew as it turns out that the tank barrel is a mixture of features from the three different styles that existed.

 

For example, it has discs on the upper body side (correct for some of the wagons) but only on one side and not both.

 

I’ve done a full write up on the DEMU wiki of the detail differences.

 

My four will take a bit of carving of plastic to get right!

 

Guy

That’s very interesting Guy. Would you be so kind as to provide a link for said write up? I’ve tried to have a look for it but can’t seem to find it. 
Many thanks in anticipation.

66738

[Enterprisingwestern]

21 minutes ago, 66738 said:

That’s very interesting Guy. Would you be so kind as to provide a link for said write up? I’ve tried to have a look for it but can’t seem to find it. 
Many thanks in anticipation.

66738

 

It's probably Guy's carrot to a DEMU subscription!

 

Mike.

[lyneux]

6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It's probably Guy's carrot to a DEMU subscription!

 

Mike.

 

Come on Mike, it's been too long. We know you want to re-join! 

 

29 minutes ago, 66738 said:

That’s very interesting Guy. Would you be so kind as to provide a link for said write up? I’ve tried to have a look for it but can’t seem to find it. 
Many thanks in anticipation.

66738

 

Link is here: https://forum.demu.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=TEA_Cryogenic. Mike is right, the wiki is members-only.

 

The wiki page has been a collaboration by members to share information with several members contributing their own photos and research on these wagons to build as complete a picture as we can of the detail differences.

 

I think the short answer is: study pictures of the wagon that you want to model as there are lots of detail differences.

 

Guy

 

 

[black and decker boy]

18 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

Something is happening, my order for 2 Nitrogen tanks placed on Monday has been updated today as Picked so maybe more stock has arrived. Either that or I’m getting a near empty box.

box has arrived and there are 2 nitrogen tanks inside ;-)

[Martin_R]

Just been notified by Hattons my order has been picked and packed so looks like more stock has been ‘obtained’ from Olivia’s....

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Spoke with Hattons 'phone sales team.

 

Orders are being dealt with in date/time order.

 

At present my date/time of ordr means I won't be getting my order.

 

However, they are still hoping to get more stock.

 

So - fingers crossed.....

 

Phil H

[66738]

6 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

Come on Mike, it's been too long. We know you want to re-join! 

 

 

Link is here: https://forum.demu.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=TEA_Cryogenic. Mike is right, the wiki is members-only.

 

The wiki page has been a collaboration by members to share information with several members contributing their own photos and research on these wagons to build as complete a picture as we can of the detail differences.

 

I think the short answer is: study pictures of the wagon that you want to model as there are lots of detail differences.

 

Guy

 

 

Ah ok. No problem. Thanks for getting back to me.
I must say,  It’s a shame the tanks aren’t as bang on as I’d previously thought. Most reviews I’ve seen are quite favourable. Perhaps it needs a keen, ‘knowledgeable’ eye to really see the errors. I’ll sit down and compare models with photographs, to see what I can can spot. 
66738
 

[dogbox321]

17 hours ago, 66738 said:

Ah ok. No problem. Thanks for getting back to me.
I must say,  It’s a shame the tanks aren’t as bang on as I’d previously thought. Most reviews I’ve seen are quite favourable. Perhaps it needs a keen, ‘knowledgeable’ eye to really see the errors. I’ll sit down and compare models with photographs, to see what I can can spot. 
66738
 

 

To look at the models out of the box, they certainly look nice.  I Do like these TEA's.  

 

Never worth £75 but at £45 not too bad for recent/niche product.

 

With respect to detail being wrong- Its Heljan!  Just look how many Class 33/0 versions there are!  Have you ever tried to re-number a Class 58?  I did a Mainline Blue version and I couldn't put warning flashes where they should have been! 

 

Best Wishes,

 

C.

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

Have you ever tried to re-number a Class 58?  I did a Mainline Blue version and I couldn't put warning flashes where they should have been! 

 

Similar problems with the BTH type 1.

 

Mike.

[66738]

Back in stock. 

66738

[Dungrange]

Out of interest, was there a reason for the range of different liveries on such a small fleet?  Was the yellow stripe meant to signify something different from the red stripe and if so, what?  Similarly, did the entire fleet carry what appears to be the more common BOC livery shown in the many of the photographs in this thread and then some were de-branded later in life, or were the ones without branding always like that?  Similarly, was the BOC Gases a later change in livery that was only applied to a few wagons, like a partial rebranding exercise?  Looking at the photographs above, there are a couple of wagons that look as though they have the same logo variation as the BOC Gases livery but without the word 'Gases', but I'm not sure if that's just another livery variation or I just can't see the word 'Gases' from the angle of the photograph.

 

They are a bit early for my time period, but if any made it into the 21st Century, which livery would be most likely?

[66738]

2 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Out of interest, was there a reason for the range of different liveries on such a small fleet?  Was the yellow stripe meant to signify something different from the red stripe and if so, what?  Similarly, did the entire fleet carry what appears to be the more common BOC livery shown in the many of the photographs in this thread and then some were de-branded later in life, or were the ones without branding always like that?  Similarly, was the BOC Gases a later change in livery that was only applied to a few wagons, like a partial rebranding exercise?  Looking at the photographs above, there are a couple of wagons that look as though they have the same logo variation as the BOC Gases livery but without the word 'Gases', but I'm not sure if that's just another livery variation or I just can't see the word 'Gases' from the angle of the photograph.

 

They are a bit early for my time period, but if any made it into the 21st Century, which livery would be most likely?

Closest I’ve seen to the 21st century was in 1998 on Flickr. A class 56(076) on a rake of Un branded tanks. So tanks BOC04, BOC14 and BOC19.

66738

[Carl BR]

I'm a bit late with the compliment but hats off to Hatton's for coming up trumps with my 5 outstanding BOC tankers. They landed last Friday.

 I wonder if they had to go begging to Olivia's for the extra stock to fulfil the orders they were struggling  to honour?

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Carl BR

[woodenhead]

11 hours ago, Carl BR said:

I'm a bit late with the compliment but hats off to Hatton's for coming up trumps with my 5 outstanding BOC tankers. They landed last Friday.

 I wonder if they had to go begging to Olivia's for the extra stock to fulfil the orders they were struggling  to honour?

 

I doubt it, the fact Hattons has them from Olivias to sell at a discount, like they did with the 76/77s, would suggest Olivia's wants the cash and isn't wanting them hanging around their storeroom much longer.

[Dungrange]

But if Olivia's want the cash, why don't they sell them directly to the public at £45 each rather than sell to Hattons for less?  I'm fairly sure Hattons are not selling them on at the cost they pay Olivia's.

[Mike Storey]

My three, Oxygen, tanks arrived yesterday, ordered a couple of weeks ago, so still a chance of getting some.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

But if Olivia's want the cash, why don't they sell them directly to the public at £45 each rather than sell to Hattons for less?  I'm fairly sure Hattons are not selling them on at the cost they pay Olivia's.

Olivias has a poor reputation, Hattons does not, it would have been good business for Olivias to move them all themselves at full price like Kernow managed with most of their own models but Olivias like with the 76/77 is seeing the stock move too slowly and has had to let Hattons have a go and is clearly doing a good job of moving them on.

[Pillar]

Mine arrived last week. Very nice models of an interesting prototype and great service from Hattons.

 

One thing I noticed regarding the decoration is that although the large numbers vary between models (I believe these are the pre-TOPS numbers?), the 846xx numbers on the TOPS panels are sometimes duplicated. My examples of 0007, 0013 and 0014 all carry the TOPS number BOC84607. Hardly noticeable of course, but maybe worth overlaying with transfers.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Pillar

[dogbox321]

10 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

My three, Oxygen, tanks arrived yesterday, ordered a couple of weeks ago, so still a chance of getting some.

Oh good!  Still owed the 4 I paid for on the 19th November........

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris

[Dungrange]

On 03/12/2020 at 01:17, 66738 said:

Closest I’ve seen to the 21st century was in 1998 on Flickr. A class 56(076) on a rake of Un branded tanks. So tanks BOC04, BOC14 and BOC19.

 

I did see one reference to these wagons being for the period up to 'early 2000s' but other references say 'late 1990s' and I don't think I've seen any photographs dated this century.  I suspect that many of the trainload services had gone by the late 1990s because of the desire by customers for more frequent delivery of smaller loads (driven by changes in Health and Safety legislation) and the changes at EWS around 1999, which led to the contraction of Enterprise services probably marked the end for rail operation.

 

I was a bit slow to order, so missed BOC04, but picked up the other two unbranded ones and a couple of what seem to be the much less popular BOC Gases livery.

 

On 02/12/2020 at 23:05, Dungrange said:

Out of interest, was there a reason for the range of different liveries on such a small fleet?  Was the yellow stripe meant to signify something different from the red stripe and if so, what?  Similarly, did the entire fleet carry what appears to be the more common BOC livery shown in the many of the photographs in this thread and then some were de-branded later in life, or were the ones without branding always like that?  Similarly, was the BOC Gases a later change in livery that was only applied to a few wagons, like a partial rebranding exercise?  Looking at the photographs above, there are a couple of wagons that look as though they have the same logo variation as the BOC Gases livery but without the word 'Gases', but I'm not sure if that's just another livery variation or I just can't see the word 'Gases' from the angle of the photograph.

 

They are a bit early for my time period, but if any made it into the 21st Century, which livery would be most likely?

 

To sort of answer my own question, I note that the logo on the BOC Gases wagons match the company's current logo apart from the fact that the words 'A Member of the Linde Group' now appear underneath following the 2006 takeover. However, looking at the company's history, what was BOC plc when these wagons came into service became BOC Group plc in 1978 following the completion of the takeover of Airco Industrial Gases.  I suspect that the company logo was changed in 1978 to reflect the new company structure and a few of the wagons may have been re-liveried around that time for promotional purposes, but I can't find anything online to confirm that was the case.

 

However, given that I'll need to apply Rule 1 to run these on an early 21st century layout, having wagons with logos that match the current corporate identity would seem to be appropriate.  In an alternate reality where these continued in service, it's not unbelievable that they may eventually all have carried the BOC Gases livery, or something similar.

 

On 05/12/2020 at 13:31, woodenhead said:

Olivias has a poor reputation, Hattons does not, it would have been good business for Olivias to move them all themselves at full price like Kernow managed with most of their own models but Olivias like with the 76/77 is seeing the stock move too slowly and has had to let Hattons have a go and is clearly doing a good job of moving them on.

 

I'm aware of Olivia's poor reputation for customer service, although I can't personally comment.  The reason that I haven't bought anything from Olivia's is that I tend to find they are more expensive than other on-line retailers.  If the same wagon was available at the same price from both Hattons and Olivia's I would buy from Hattons, because I've had good service from them on many occasions, and this was no exception: ordered Thursday and delivered in Sunday.  However, if Olivia's were significantly cheaper than elsewhere, I'd be willing to do business with them (until I personally had problems).  My question is therefore, is Olivia's stock moving slowly because of their customer service reputation or is it because the models are simply overpriced at Olivia's.  Unfortunately, we can't actually answer that unless Olivia's were to try shifting some of these to the public at a lower price and it doesn't look like they are willing to do that.

 

On 05/12/2020 at 18:41, Pillar said:

One thing I noticed regarding the decoration is that although the large numbers vary between models (I believe these are the pre-TOPS numbers?), the 846xx numbers on the TOPS panels are sometimes duplicated. My examples of 0007, 0013 and 0014 all carry the TOPS number BOC84607. Hardly noticeable of course, but maybe worth overlaying with transfers.

 

This seems to be the case on the models I bought.  At least one of yours is correct.  The two unbranded ones that I purchased (0002 and 0011) both have the number 84635 in the TOPS panel, while the two BOC Gases versions (0034 and 0040) have 84610 in the TOPS panel.  I assume that the TOPS panel on only one of each livery is therefore correct.

 

Overall, I don't think it's that noticeable, especially from normal viewing distances.  If I was to go to the bother of changing the number in the TOPS panel, I suspect I should also try to change the phone number (ie the 051 dialling code became 0151 in April 1995 and I suspect that since this is an Emergency Contact number, it was probably updated post1995).

 

One other point, did anyone else get a transfer sheet in their box?  Two of my wagons had one of the transfer sheets that Hattons are selling separately for £6 and the other two didn't.  I'm therefore not sure if it's their inclusion or omission that is wrong.  Either way, I don't really care as I don't think I need them.  I certainly wouldn't have paid £75 for these, but to someone who is not overly familiar with the prototype, they are a nice model for £45.