Olivia's Trains BOC VBA and Cryogenics TEA

[cheesysmith]

The reason I asked about the bogies is that I was under the impression that the GPS bogies were a later fitment and came after the others. The original type of bogies had the springs betwen the bogie side frame and the bolster, the later type ad the spring between the axle and the bogie frame. So did the tankers come with the GPS from new, or were they a later fitment when having overhaul? I hve not seen any photos of the tanks over the woodhead with the later bogies.

[Fat Controller]

As far as I can work out, the bogies differed according to the builder. They were all built in 1970 or just after. Those built by Procor were to Design Code TEO13C (Oxygen) or 13D (Nitrogen) using Gloucester GPS bogies. Those built by Charles Roberts were to Design Code TEO13F (both Oxygen and Nitrogen I believe. I cannot see any other design code being used to separate the two) using Gloucester Mk IV bogies. I cannot see any pattern to the BOC numbering system, but I guess there must be one!

I thought Procor (a Canadian firm specialising in road and rail tanks) had bought the Charles Roberts plant at Horbury, along with the Gloucester company?

[PaulCheffus]

The reason I asked about the bogies is that I was under the impression that the GPS bogies were a later fitment and came after the others. The original type of bogies had the springs betwen the bogie side frame and the bolster, the later type ad the spring between the axle and the bogie frame. So did the tankers come with the GPS from new, or were they a later fitment when having overhaul? I hve not seen any photos of the tanks over the woodhead with the later bogies.

Hi

 

I have a picture showing a pair of 76s with the bogies of the first BOC tanker clearly having GPS ones. I can't post the image as I got it from the internet somewhere but cannot remember where.

 

Found the original

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodger5450/20263929155/in/photolist-nJ6nWq-cADEK5-wSDW9T-nNEjDh

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited January 18, 2018 by PaulCheffus

[Mike Storey]

I thought Procor (a Canadian firm specialising in road and rail tanks) had bought the Charles Roberts plant at Horbury, along with the Gloucester company?

 

Procor bought the plant in 1974. This is where the confusion starts. All the BOC tanks show a build date of 1970, which would imply all Roberts builds, but Procor is shown as the builder on all GPS bogie fitted versions. I can only presume that the "build date" is actually the design code date, and that, whilst Roberts commenced production before 1974, production continued past, or at least into, 1974, by Procor. As to why they changed the bogie from that used by Roberts, I can find no further info. As both are Gloucester products, ownership does not seem to be the explanation?

[Mark Saunders]

Procor bought the plant in 1974. This is where the confusion starts. All the BOC tanks show a build date of 1970, which would imply all Roberts builds, but Procor is shown as the builder on all GPS bogie fitted versions. I can only presume that the "build date" is actually the design code date, and that, whilst Roberts commenced production before 1974, production continued past, or at least into, 1974, by Procor. As to why they changed the bogie from that used by Roberts, I can find no further info. As both are Gloucester products, ownership does not seem to be the explanation?

This was about the time that GPS bogies were fashionable and quite a bit of new build received them but it has not proved to be as good as thought hence the replacement on several vehicles!

 

Design codes are frequently altered by the small modifications which are not noticeable!

 

It will probably take someone to sit down and tabulate which had which bogies by date!

 

Mark Saunders

[Thrallwelder]

Would any kind soul have a pic of these wagons behind a class 56 1988 onwards ... or indeed any knowledge to wether they were ever in use together .

 

Thanks

[Fat Controller]

This was about the time that GPS bogies were fashionable and quite a bit of new build received them but it has not proved to be as good as thought hence the replacement on several vehicles!

 

Design codes are frequently altered by the small modifications which are not noticeable!

 

It will probably take someone to sit down and tabulate which had which bogies by date!

 

Mark Saunders

I recollect that some Tiphook container flats received these bogies (or something very similar), which had to be changed for VNH1/Y25CSM to permit them to run to France.

Regarding places these wagons might be seen; the Nitrogen ones did wander a bit as well. They went to Falmouth docks, where the gas was used to purge ship's tanks prior to welding. They also went to Ipswich (not sure why), and Grimsby, where the gas was used in a frozen food plant.

[Mark Saunders]

I recollect that some Tiphook container flats received these bogies (or something very similar), which had to be changed for VNH1/Y25CSM to permit them to run to France.

Regarding places these wagons might be seen; the Nitrogen ones did wander a bit as well. They went to Falmouth docks, where the gas was used to purge ship's tanks prior to welding. They also went to Ipswich (not sure why), and Grimsby, where the gas was used in a frozen food plant.

The first batch of Tiphooks had GPS bogies and most of these became NLU these bogies were painted Yellow.

 

Those that were stored at York appear to be have been scrapped after removal by road when Klondike was cleared about a year ago!

 

Mark Saunders

[Mike Storey]

I recollect that some Tiphook container flats received these bogies (or something very similar), which had to be changed for VNH1/Y25CSM to permit them to run to France.

Regarding places these wagons might be seen; the Nitrogen ones did wander a bit as well. They went to Falmouth docks, where the gas was used to purge ship's tanks prior to welding. They also went to Ipswich (not sure why), and Grimsby, where the gas was used in a frozen food plant.

 

I suspect the Ipswich bound tanks were for Lowestoft, for the Birds Eye frozen food plant there (mainly peas, sprouts and broad beans after the fish processing stopped, for which it was originally built)? This used to be rail connected some decades back, when the trawler dock lines were still used for the new shore defence works. I recall tanks being unloaded to road tankers in the old sleeper yard in the 1990's, but do not know if this continued later.

 

Unless there was some secret body-freezing activity in Ipswich, or another activity which required Liquid Nitrogen of which I am not aware, there was no frozen food processing plant there.

[Winter123]

Quick video of BOC Tanks on Olivia's website. Go to Heljan>Wagons>BOC Tanks. These apparently need minor adjustments and will then hopefully go into production but summertime looks a bit ambitious.

Also, no factory weathered versions now but they will offer weathering in house. The transfers will allow for the type of gas to be changed along with renumbering options.

[Mike Storey]

Quick video of BOC Tanks on Olivia's website. Go to Heljan>Wagons>BOC Tanks. These apparently need minor adjustments and will then hopefully go into production but summertime looks a bit ambitious.

Also, no factory weathered versions now but they will offer weathering in house. The transfers will allow for the type of gas to be changed along with renumbering options.

 

Many thanks for this. The odd new reference on the relevant page now calls these a "standard manufacturer release", considering it was advertised as an exclusive commission by Olivias. I wonder what that means? I cannot work it out on Heljan's own website. It seems £75 a pop will require even more work, or more costs. Still, at least it will save me trying to make a rake whilst I grapple with part scratch/part bash a rake of 102t JXA/POA's.......

[Winter123]

Many thanks for this. The odd new reference on the relevant page now calls these a "standard manufacturer release", considering it was advertised as an exclusive commission by Olivias. I wonder what that means? I cannot work it out on Heljan's own website. It seems £75 a pop will require even more work, or more costs. Still, at least it will save me trying to make a rake whilst I grapple with part scratch/part bash a rake of 102t JXA/POA's.......

 

Definitely an exclusive to Olivia's Mike. For "standard manufacturer release" read pristine only, as seen in pictures with no added modifications like brake pipes etc (which are included in the detail pack).

£75 is eye watering but unfortunately it's the way the prices are now going. However they regularly have 10% off offers (there's one at the moment-shame the tanks aren't available yet!!). I don't think they will sell out for a while as they are doing quite a substantial run.

[E3109]

Good lord.

 

Apart from the appalling state of the 'new' boxes, I'd also add that the typeface used for 'BOC' bears no similarity to those used by the company... Either now or earlier.

[Andrew P]

How old are those boxes, I haven't seen any like that used for years.    

 

But would ''O's'' care.        

[25901]

Does make you wonder, Hattons all new zza snowplough in new packaging for £43 and Olivia's offering as seen above at £56.

[Mike Storey]

Does not bode well for the TEA's. Oh dear.

[Deltic Man]

Does not bode well for the TEA's. Oh dear.

Video of tanks here must be samples

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Heljan/heljan_4-wheel-b-tank-wagons/Heljan-boc-tanks/Heljan-100ton-wagons-boc-livery-2-2/

[Mike Storey]

Video of tanks here must be samples

 

http://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Heljan/heljan_4-wheel-b-tank-wagons/Heljan-boc-tanks/Heljan-100ton-wagons-boc-livery-2-2/

 

Thanks - yes, seen those. They look ok so far. But the proof will be in the pudding. I have retained my orders, in faith.

[E3109]

I'm aware that this firm is subjected to regular criticism on this page, and in fairness nearly all of it is warranted especially the price tag.

 

I'm glad Mr Bishop commissioned the EM1 and EM2 because, clangers apart it can be turned into a decent model.

But at £160 a pop, I expect perfection and the only reason I've been buying as many as I can afford is because Hatton's are selling them at a reasonable price.

 

I've just had a look on the OT page thanks to the BOC topic, here are a few observations.

 

1. £75 for a bogie tank? What are they thinking, unless it's O Scale.

 

2. They offer EM1s as bespoke 'specials', the namers from 26046-57. Only £20 above their RRP and many would say that's not bad.

It wouldn't be, if only they'd used numbers with the correct font/typeface. The photos show a sort of condensed Rail Alphabet, even correct Rail Alphabet is inappropriate for these engines. They should be in the 1960s diesel style (can't recall the name of it).

 

3. They offer another 'bespoke' class 40 in the form of D210 ''Empress of Britain'.

I'm not going to repeat the price here because even the DC version is enough to make a wh*re blush.

But that model is also afflicted with font issues.

 

Their conversions of the standard 76 'to represent Tommy' (sic) are retailing for the bargain fee of 'just' £350.

For that price I'd expect the windscreens to be narrower as per prototype, the lower body side grilles to be wider, cab footsteps to be of the correct pattern and to actually line up with the repositioned doors, red bufferbeams instead of black, the 'sandbag' roof vents to be the same as the original, and proper replacements for those appalling pantographs.

 

Sadly, none of those apply.

 

Neil needs to realise that we as 'trainspotters' (in the generic sense) are pretty anal about detail.

He's a crank himself so I really can't comprehend how the firm gets things so wrong, so often and that's before we even get started on prices.

I've got a few MW-fitted versions of 76022. The typeface for the numbers is pure RES. Doesn't matter to me as they're being renumbered anyway. But, WHY? Yet another schoolboy error that could've been avoided with just one jpg email to Denmark.

76014 is no better, it isn't RES but it certainly isn't BR either.

 

Add to that, the EM2s have the correct font but it's depicted about ten or twenty percent too big.

They got it right on the standard E26049 version, so that demonstrates that it can be done when they're bothered.

But I'd even question the choice of that loco as it carried the distinctive eyebrow gutters for most of its life, the model of course doesn't.

 

Still, people are still buying stuff from there so who am I to argue.

Personally, I couldn't sleep at night thinking I was passing this stuff off, but hey ho.

[Andrew P]

Does not bode well for the TEA's. Oh dear.

Probably Ex Lima!        

[chuffinghell]

My pair of "pristine" Olivias BOC livery VBA vans arrived today, as a Father's Day present from my son.

 

To say I was shocked when I unpacked them is an understatement...

 

I've bought stuff that was supposed to be new arriving in tatty, worn, old boxes with the contents not being much better

 

The last (and it is the last) time I spoke to them Mr Bishop tried to pressurize me into 'needing' stay-alive for a particular loco telling me it wouldn't work properly without it..........so I bought said loco from elsewhere and fitted it with a cheap non-stayalive decoder and it worked perfectly even over setrack points

 

I'm not a fan of Olivia's Trains or Mr Bishop for these reasons and will never buy from them again

Edited July 12, 2018 by chuffinghell

[Wolf27]

Sounds about right. Bizarre about the retailer deciding whether or not the goods were acceptable. Like they are going say they are not! Banning customers is the way to go!

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Enterprisingwestern]

Being devils advocate, no one can say they weren't warned.

 

Mike.

[Guest]

Having just looked at the advert on the website for the wagons you can see in the photos that this is not Tampo printed but water slide transfers badly applied

If it stated the photos where for demonstration models and not production models it would be acceptable for the advert

When zooming in on the pictures you can see rips in the decals and the clear joints attaching the stripes together, the decals have been applied over a Matt surface and no attempt has been made to gloss first and apply then Matt classic school boy mistake

Cheers

Roomey

[The Ghost of IKB]

Over the years this firm have been exposed on this site for poor practices and sky high pricing. Personally I'd rather do without a model than put a penny in their direction.