RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hi all, I have a series of commissions to produce some 4mm wagons in Loadhaul livery. That set me thinking and searching! I started with Wikipedia which gives a rough guide to Loadhaul having in the region of 3500 wagons. The question is - How many of these received the Loadhaul paint scheme? I started over on the DEMU Members Forum but then expanded my search to here and got some more results. The list - so far? BBA910547 BDADB950320DB950414DB950772950910950644950385950467 BFA950526 BIA910450 BOA990004 BPA965008965011 BSA900196900032 CEA360115360283361605361642361816 HEATBC HKATBC HOA TBC HPA983239983271992714992804992836993173993194993230 MEA391211391230391207391204391216391222 MKA390254390293393000393035390268391222391223391235390201390253393009393001393014393020393024393033393034393014393054393502393022 MTA395251 to 395405395374 OCA112284112171112258122398112229 RAQ955094 RUQ993830993880993754 VBA200606? YGBDB982583DB982587DB982578DB982472DB982652DB982911 YWADB996461DB996663 ZBADB972644 ZCADC460080DC460065DC460113DC460702DC460255DC460252DC460944DC460282DC461099DC460702DC460165 ZFV993024993111993411DB993230DB992804DB993279DB993024 ZKA390293 ZUADB993882DB993876993715993718993826993882 ZUB993826 Where have I searched so far? Photos on DEMU Forum - I've found them Photos on here - I've found them Photos on Paul Bartlett - I've found them Photos on Martyn Read - I've found them Photos on Andy Jupe - I've found them Still looking for more photos - either to confirm wagons already listed or to add new to the list. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 Here's some for you ! Numbers appear to be- 982652 112171 982878 460515 360105 993041 Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Here's some for you ! Numbers appear to be- 982652 112171 982878 460515 360105 993041 Cheers, Phil. Hi Phil, Thanks for adding to the collection! I suppose I better think about writing this up as I can't see where anything like it has already been done. I'll try and keep this thread updated as things develop. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Brilliant graffiti on the Sealion! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hi Phil, Thanks for adding to the collection! I suppose I better think about writing this up as I can't see where anything like it has already been done. I'll try and keep this thread updated as things develop. Thanks I took a couple more close-up pics of 112171 if there any use to you ? Is that wagon unusual with the Orange going right-left, all the others go left-right ? Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 I took a couple more close-up pics of 112171 if there any use to you ? Is that wagon unusual with the Orange going right-left, all the others go left-right ? Cheers, Phil. Hi Phil, More photos please! You are right - it is unusual in that way. That's what makes it a modelling 'must have'..... Plus I now have photos showing the orange right way around as well as wrong way around! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 All were taken on 25.4.2016 at Toton. Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hi all, Browsing throough the photos of Loadhaul wagons has been interesting - to say the least! Sometimes the same wagon number with a different TOPS code crops up! For instance? ZUA/ZUB SharkSame wagon number, different TOPS code. The MKA/ZKA situation appears to be the same. Other things noted..... HPA in Loadhaul with Air Brakesthen appear asZFV in Loadhaul without Air Brakes I'm making the assumption that these lost the Air Brakes after the traffic they were converted for was either lost by Loadhaul or by the railway itself. ZCA SeaHare2 different ways of welding up the doors, flat strip along the top of the doors and angle iron along the top and the inside of the top of the doors.2 different types of end step, angled and straight. Once I've looked at this lot - then it's time to look at the models that are/have been available in 4mm Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 On your list 982652 is shown as a YGB, in my pic its a YBH ! Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 On your list 982652 is shown as a YGB, in my pic its a YBH ! Cheers, Phil. Hi Phil, That's exactly why I decided I needed a list... There are several instances where the same wagon number has carried different TOPS Codes. Once I get into the mire that is the Sealion/Seacow or YGB/YGH situation I'll have more to say! Are YGH former YGB fitted with lights.... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 Looking at the pic beside my name, how did I manage to forget about Sharks !! Cheers, Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 For instance? ZUA/ZUB Shark Same wagon number, different TOPS code. The vacuum pipe will have gone out of use at some point, prompting a recoding from B to A. The MKA/ZKA situation appears to be the same. The history is complex - but in terms of Loadhaul they inherited some engineers conversions (ZKA) ex BR (with the holes in the sides), they bought some POA ex private owner (the 393xxx series, without holes in the sides) and repainted many of them into Loadhaul paint for revenue use. Under EWS I believe the MKA fleet then had the holes cut in the sides for engineers use, and the (active) ZKA fleet were recoded to MKA. Much, much later all the surviving MKA had their bodies cut down to become MTA, some of them still have what's left of Loadhaul paint! HPA in Loadhaul with Air Brakes then appear as ZFV in Loadhaul without Air Brakes I'm making the assumption that these lost the Air Brakes after the traffic they were converted for was either lost by Loadhaul or by the railway itself. The HPA dogfish were conversions from ZFV, so most plausible that's the other way round - not all were repainted on conversion, so that was one that was probably repainted into Loadhaul before it was converted to air brakes. On your list 982652 is shown as a YGB, in my pic its a YBH ! Codes painted on the wagons are not always accurate! I've a similar wagon clearly coded YHA, EWS must have employed some confused stencillers. Are YGH former YGB fitted with lights.... No, the third letter of the code always refers to the braking. B is Air braked with a vacuum through pipe. H is dual braked, with AFI style vacuum brakes. YGH was the original code of the 1970s built Sealion (riveted body) wagons YGB was the original code of the 1980s built Seacow (welded body) wagons Those codes would probably not have changed much over the course of BR. In modern times, the increasingly obsolete vacuum brakes and through pipes may have been altered, and that would change the last letter, irrespective of batch. Examples from both batches ended up coded YGA (air brake only) for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 The vacuum pipe will have gone out of use at some point, prompting a recoding from B to A. The history is complex - but in terms of Loadhaul they inherited some engineers conversions (ZKA) ex BR (with the holes in the sides), they bought some POA ex private owner (the 393xxx series, without holes in the sides) and repainted many of them into Loadhaul paint for revenue use. Under EWS I believe the MKA fleet then had the holes cut in the sides for engineers use, and the (active) ZKA fleet were recoded to MKA. Much, much later all the surviving MKA had their bodies cut down to become MTA, some of them still have what's left of Loadhaul paint! The HPA dogfish were conversions from ZFV, so most plausible that's the other way round - not all were repainted on conversion, so that was one that was probably repainted into Loadhaul before it was converted to air brakes. Codes painted on the wagons are not always accurate! I've a similar wagon clearly coded YHA, EWS must have employed some confused stencillers. No, the third letter of the code always refers to the braking. B is Air braked with a vacuum through pipe. H is dual braked, with AFI style vacuum brakes. YGH was the original code of the 1970s built Sealion (riveted body) wagons YGB was the original code of the 1980s built Seacow (welded body) wagons Those codes would probably not have changed much over the course of BR. In modern times, the increasingly obsolete vacuum brakes and through pipes may have been altered, and that would change the last letter, irrespective of batch. Examples from both batches ended up coded YGA (air brake only) for example. Hi Martyn, Thanks for the clarification onseveral things. Got to get out of research mode - I have models to build.... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 29, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Looking at the pic beside my name, how did I manage to forget about Sharks !! Cheers, Phil. Hi Phil, Now that you have posted the Shark photos.... I know which Phil you are! Sharks are somewhat a pet subject of mine. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2017 All I can contribute: EWS OCA Open Wagon 112284 Eastleigh 25/2/12 by John Upton, on Flickr Loadhaul Sealion Hopper DB982587 Eastleigh 4/4/05 by John Upton, on Flickr I do like a really grotty wagon!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The HPA were converted to carry chrome ore from Humberside to the Sheffield area. A couple were sold on to Eurotunnel, who used them for ballast workings around the Cheriton terminal. I've not seen them for a while, so presume they've been scrapped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 A slight tangent, but how was the split in the fleet between Loadhaul and the other two worked out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Phil Mc Posted March 30, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hi Phil, Now that you have posted the Shark photos.... I know which Phil you are! Sharks are somewhat a pet subject of mine. Thanks I'm not sure I like the sound of that !! Cheers, Anon.! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hi all, Thanks for the additional information and photos.... John - Thanks - these are good photos to have in my Loadhaul wagon file. Brian - I believe you are correct and the wagons went for scrap. I have a photo of one without number that the comment said was 'near Sheerness for scrap'. Tim - I have no idea how the wagon split was decided but given the regional nature of the newly created business units - possibly based on wagons required to maintain the existing contracts? Phil - no worries - I have several photos that were sent to me that I can now credit to the photographer (you). Mainly old Fotopic stuff from the file history when they were saved. I have a photos of the solitary HOA - but I can't share it! Basically it was an HEA cut down to just above where the slope of the sides begin. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 A slight tangent, but how was the split in the fleet between Loadhaul and the other two worked out? Not that I know for certain, Loadhaul was iirc "Trainload North-East" so I'd guess those wagons already allox in that area got black and orange. I'd like to hear RussP's take and if freight at the time was in the Stationmaster's remit, his opinions/experience. The carve-up of the loco's allotted to the shadow privatisation is well documented but less so the cargo carrying fleet. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince minto Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 If it helps only ever took two wagons in loadhaul,despite only living 5 mins from tyne yard!! both sharks,mainly because I was building the cambrian kits anyway 993715 at Carlisle 15-2-2006 993826 Bescot 18-4-2004 cheers vince Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 30, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2017 If it helps only ever took two wagons in loadhaul,despite only living 5 mins from tyne yard!! both sharks,mainly because I was building the cambrian kits anyway 993715 at Carlisle 15-2-2006 DB993715 CARLISLE 15-2-06.JPG 993826 Bescot 18-4-2004 993826 BS 18-4-2004.jpg cheers vince Hi Vince, They all help.... I must keep resisting the impulse to model another Shark though as I've done more Sharks then any other wagon type. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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