Glueing aluminium

[Graham456]

I have a couple of Hobbytime mink F kits to build, now the instructions recommend a few glues, but due to the passage of time these are no longer made, parafrat ? ?

Now being a very long time Land Rover owner I know all about the oxygenation of of the surface makeing it a pain to join, but I don't think my normal TIG welding ! Would be any good / appropate in this case!

Can any one suggest the best glue for sticking this kit together,there are ally to ally bits and ally to whitemetal joins to do.

And I have seen with this kit the recommendation of turning the internal reinforcements around to put the cross walls more evenly spaced from what the instructions say, comments ?

[Bernard Lamb]

I have a couple of Hobbytime mink F kits to build, now the instructions recommend a few glues, but due to the passage of time these are no longer made, parafrat ? ?

Now being a very long time Land Rover owner I know all about the oxygenation of of the surface makeing it a pain to join, but I don't think my normal TIG welding ! Would be any good / appropate in this case!

Can any one suggest the best glue for sticking this kit together,there are ally to ally bits and ally to whitemetal joins to do.

And I have seen with this kit the recommendation of turning the internal reinforcements around to put the cross walls more evenly spaced from what the instructions say, comments ?

Epoxy seems to do the job. Araldite or other similar brands.

I would suggest you roughen up the surface to give a better grip.

Use the correct flux and solder combination and that should also work but I have never bothered to try as Araldite is pretty good..

Bernard

[Spitfire2865]

Id think some quick 2 part epoxy would work, assuming the surface is roughed up a bit. Though I dont have experience gluing aluminum.

[bertiedog]

Purely added as help, aluminium is best joined by any normal long set epoxy glue, long experience in industry and making the BSL kits. Make sure the metal is totally clean, and roughen the surface.

To shorten time of work, warm the whole thing or use fast set, but only a top branded quick set from Araldite or Loctite etc.

An alternative is Gorilla type glue, which sets with moisture, it works well with Aluminium.

Do not attempt soldering, it works but needs years of experience and practice.

Stephen

[Barry O]

I have some mtk and bsl stock with aluminium sides and cast ends. Use evostick to make a join then epoxy to come over the evostick. The evostick moves with temperature and stays glued to the aluminium and white metal. The epoxy sticks to the araldite.

 

Bsz

[Graham456]

[quote name="bertiedog" post="2669474" timestamp="1490826072"

Do not attempt soldering, it works but needs years of experience and practice.

Stephen

 

There are in the classic car field quite a few products for soldering ally quite easily! (Thirty seven years of Land Rover ownership does give you years of experience and practice ! )You just have to aggatate the surface to get the solder through The oxidation coating, great on Land Rover wings And eroded castings ! But I don't think I go there on the model!

But thank you for the glue advise that's what I needed

[DCB]

I think glue is a great short term fix..  However I have dismantled numerous araldited and evostuck kits both white metal and aluminium and can honestly say I have never found one that was stuck together robustly.   Maybe a superfine tip and some superfine mig wire?

[Graham456]

I think glue is a great short term fix..  However I have dismantled numerous araldited and evostuck kits both white metal and aluminium and can honestly say I have never found one that was stuck together robustly.   Maybe a superfine tip and some superfine mig wire?

I know what you are saying David I have come across more than a few whitemetal kits with rubbery araldite that fall apart, and i to well remember the sticky mess I got in with it in my youth building K's kits but that encouraged me to learn solder kits.

It was this sticky finger mess that made me post this question in case any improvements had arrived in fourty years, I can't see super glue working on a flexible surface? Or will it be OK? And I am worring to much about ally expanding and contracting shattering the joint

P S you need TIG not MIG to weld ally got one, but not going there!, can really see the wife being happy with me lugging the welder up to the muddling room NOT !

[PatB]

I find modern Araldite to be much less robust than its older incarnations. I have, however, found a nominally similar product which has the properties I remember of yore. Unfortunately the labels have fallen off my dual syringe of the stuff and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, except that it was a USA made product. Unhelpful I know, but offered to illustrate that Araldite alternatives may be worth a try when looking for epoxies.

[Dunsignalling]

I find modern Araldite to be much less robust than its older incarnations. I have, however, found a nominally similar product which has the properties I remember of yore. Unfortunately the labels have fallen off my dual syringe of the stuff and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, except that it was a USA made product. Unhelpful I know, but offered to illustrate that Araldite alternatives may be worth a try when looking for epoxies.

The one I use is Devcon but is in two tubes, not a syringe.

 

I have a number of items (including BSL) that are held together with it that exhibit no sign of it softening after more than a decade.

 

That's not to say, of course, that a government nanny on either or both sides of the pond hasn't forced the makers to change to an inferior recipe on "safety" grounds in the meantime. 

 

John

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Red Devil]

I find modern Araldite to be much less robust than its older incarnations. I have, however, found a nominally similar product which has the properties I remember of yore. Unfortunately the labels have fallen off my dual syringe of the stuff and I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, except that it was a USA made product. Unhelpful I know, but offered to illustrate that Araldite alternatives may be worth a try when looking for epoxies.

Devcon?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Devcon-High-Strength-Epoxy-Resin/dp/B0006O8QQ0

[PatB]

The one I use is Devcon but is in two tubes, not a syringe.

 

I have a number of items (including BSL) that are held together with it that exhibit no sign of it softening after more than a decade.

 

That's not to say, of course, that a government nanny on either or both sides of the pond hasn't forced the makers to change to an inferior recipe on "safety" grounds in the meantime. 

 

John

 

 

Devcon?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Devcon-High-Strength-Epoxy-Resin/dp/B0006O8QQ0

 

Might be Devcon, although having come across Devcon before I'm vaguely surprised I don't remember in this case.

[bertiedog]

Devcon is a top brand. The soldering is feasible, but you are going to have to learn it from scratch, the Aluminium Oxide that's always on the surface is entirely resistant to normal fluxes, there are special ones that work, but they are messy and contain strong acids. MiG does not work, it is TiG or plasma that works.

 

The special solder sold for car panels and castings is a Eutectic metal, it has an affinity to bond with pure aluminium, and given careful cleaning and scratching of the surface, it will bond completely, but it is a high temperature process, near the plastic melt point of the aluminium, and risks melting the sheet. It works on car sheets as the metal acts as a heat sink, and allow a slow build up of heat, till the eutectic metal flows.

 

It is more like a weld process than soldering. It is  always a bit messy in appearance and needs a lot of finishing work. It will never break, as it is as strong as the Aluminium.

 

The Gorilla urethane glue has the advantage of being flexible when set, and I have used it on sheet aluminium with good results. The metals must be cleaned and then dampened on one side of the joint to activate the setting process, which expands to fill all cracks etc.

 

There are specialist 2 part cyanoacrylate super glues for Aluminium, but they are not for the General Public, they are very toxic. Respirators are worn to use it, and I do not mean paint masks! 

 

Stephen.

[Graham456]

Bertiedog I take it this bit is not aimed at me the OP

(Devcon is a top brand. The soldering is feasible, but you are going to have to learn it from scratch)

as I plainly stated I have been useing what you called eutectic solder for years on Land Rovers !

But it's a very interesting post, makeing me think I will investigate the gorilla glue angle

thank you Bertiedog

Edited March 30, 2017 by Graham456

[bertiedog]

] think the important point was missed, eutectic welding is not the same as soldering, and are different approaches to joining Aluminium, the soldering at the melt point of the solder, and the eutectic weld the much higher temperatures that help shift the oxide.

As I said it is the soldering that is the problem to solve by practice.

 

Stephen

[Nearholmer]

Aluminium can be soldered.

 

If you clean the metal, then tin the surface as soon as possible, then, while keeping the solder liquid, ideally basting with liquid solder, scratch-brush the metal through the liquid solder. This gives a good bond, because it prevents oxygen getting at the metal, which otherwise happens astonishingly fast.

 

This method used to be used for jointing of some types of aluminium conductor cable, before the advent of suitably large and reliable crimps.

 

And, it works on Landrovers!

 

Kevin

[Arthur]

 

Carrs used to sell a 'grey label' flux and solder suitable for aluminium which I used many years ago to construct a MTK DMU kit. I tinned the ends of the aluminium shell with the aluminium solder and then used a low melt solder to attach the white metal ends.

 

I seem to recall that it was claimed not to be as strong as a tin based solder but that kit must be nearly 30 years old and it's still in one piece.

 

I don't recall it being a particularly difficult process.

 

.

[Footy]

On 29/03/2017 at 20:30, Graham456 said:

I have a couple of Hobbytime mink F kits to build, now the instructions recommend a few glues, but due to the passage of time these are no longer made, parafrat ? ?

Now being a very long time Land Rover owner I know all about the oxygenation of of the surface makeing it a pain to join, but I don't think my normal TIG welding ! Would be any good / appropate in this case!

Can any one suggest the best glue for sticking this kit together,there are ally to ally bits and ally to whitemetal joins to do.

And I have seen with this kit the recommendation of turning the internal reinforcements around to put the cross walls more evenly spaced from what the instructions say, comments ?

Graham

Just found this thread because, like you in 2017,  I am about to build the Hobbytime Mink F I've had in my kit stash for more years than I'm prepared to admit, so would be very interested to hear which solution you adopted and how it went...

[Graham456]

Footy

 after a long fruitless and answer less time, I went for useing a contact adhesive branded 151 as it claimed to be suitable for metal, well it worked which is what you wanted to hear

 tips I can give

my kit like yours is old and had some corrosion from storage, this I cleaned up and then on the hidden surface to be glued used a course file to scratch the surfaces to help the glue stick

 I glued the inner ends inside the ends proper, whilst the ends were around the floor, this was to ensure the inner ends were up a bit and not flush with the bottoms of the sides to leave room for the floor when set as the floor has to be flush with the bottom of the sides.

when set I added the middle sides and left to set

 the floor to side and inner ends joint was reinforced with bead of epoxy as their isn't enough surface contact area to rely on the contact adhesive 

 brass shouldered  pinpoint bearings fitted  and then I used Hornby spoked wagon wheels as disc wheels are to new for me,

final point........ENJOY

P.S I used a spray can etched primer 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Graham456
Primer

[Barry O]

My Westdale, BSL and MTK aluminium coaches are held together using a thin smear of Evostick on each part. Let it go almost dry then fasten together. Add epoxy over the top of the evostick joint...

 

Looks like it works - some of my coaches are over 35 years old now...

 

Baz

[Footy]

Thanks, both. Apologies for the delay in replying.  Couldn't get in here at all yesterday. 

[polybear]

On 27/08/2020 at 21:50, Barry O said:

My Westdale, BSL and MTK aluminium coaches are held together using a thin smear of Evostick on each part. Let it go almost dry then fasten together. Add epoxy over the top of the evostick joint...

 

Looks like it works - some of my coaches are over 35 years old now...

 

Baz

 

The only caution I would add is that today's Evostick is reportedly a shadow of it's former self

[Barry O]

It still works..but I may need to live for another 49 years to check its longer term work.

 

Baz

[Michael Edge]

Some of my older (30 years +) Evostuck aluminium models have started to come apart a bit - Araldite is more permanent but needs the surfaces roughened a bit first.

[doilum]

On 30/08/2020 at 06:47, polybear said:

 

The only caution I would add is that today's Evostick is reportedly a shadow of it's former self

Wickes sell a contact adhesive that is identical to the old evostick beloved by kitchen fitters and glue sniffers alike. It even has a red and black tin! Also available in tubes. More expensive but controllable for small jobs.

Has anyone tried the silicon type adhesives used by the motor trade for fixing body kits etc?