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Paul.Uni

Ownership of LSWR T3 no. 563 transfered to Swanage Railway

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A very handsome machine, that. Hope the Swanage railway have somewhere indoors to keep it.

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Sorry, what is going on with the NRM, giving away historical assets to private trusts. Do we the owners (taxpayers) get any say in this?

Much as I like and respect the Swanage Railway, I don't see why they should be gifted state assets.

What next Green Arrow is rather similar to Flying Scotsman, so we'll gift it to the GCR/NYMR?

We don't need all of King Arthur, Nelson and a Schools, so we'll give two of them to their respective custodians...?

We only need one Deltic so we'll give one away.

Oh and we don't need both a King and a Castle....

 

The NRM acquired the T3 for a reason, it was deemed historically appropriate. Why has this changed?

It is a unique locomotive, and the only Adams loco in the NRM, so a real loss.

 

I'm all for locos being loaned out and properly looked after, but retaining ownership by the NRM at least allows displays to be rotated, ensures standards of preservation, and maintains the breadth of the collection as a whole.

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I wonder if this is some sort of elaborate April Fool? Is it too old to steam again?

 

....What next Green Arrow is rather similar to Flying Scotsman, so we'll gift it to the GCR/NYMR?....

 

Admittedly, there are quite a few who would like this kind of arrangement if it gives the V2 a sporting chance of running again with a new cylinder block. It would be a brighter prospect than never running again.

Edited by Horsetan

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Is it a state asset or a state liability? Relevant in today's economic circumstances.

 

Hopefully there are some "terms and conditions" with regard to the loco's future. I do take on board the comments above but surely better that the loco is on display somewhere and preferably in the part of the country where it operated. NRM don't have the space to show all their exhibits (like most museums).

 

Hopefully, Swanage can make arrangements for occasional loans to the Mid-Hants.

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I also hope they don't decide to 'restore' it to working condition by essentially throwing half of what's currently there away. 

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I wonder if this is some sort of elaborate April Fool? Is it too old to steam again?

 

 

Admittedly, there are quite a few who would like this kind of arrangement if it gives the V2 a sporting chance of running again with a new cylinder block. It would be a brighter prospect than never running again.

Yes, but there is no reason why this would have to involve a transfer of ownership. The V2's last overhaul was privately sponsored. No reason why a similar arrangement couldn't happen in the future. Given the reduced pattern costs through 3D printing, I'd say this has opened doors to a new cylinder casting. The old Monobloc, and possibly the pattern for the new one would make a fascinating exhibit.... Transfering ownership is rather throwing the baby out with the bathwater. but this is OT.

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As a former active Swanage Railway volunteer, my first reaction was an early April Fool's set-up. I would've believed if it was on a long term loan to Southern Locomotive Group, as I would be surprised if Swanage Railway itself has the volunteers available to take on such a job.

 

edit, sorry it's ;- Southern Locomotives Limited, it's changed it's name in the intervening years. :sungum:

Edited by bike2steam

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I wonder if this is some sort of elaborate April Fool? Is it too old to steam again?

 

 

 

 

563 was built in 1892, pre-dating the first of Drummond's T9s by a mere 7 years and making it considerably younger than a number of locos that have been steamed in preservation, including another of Mr. Adams' creations for the LSWR. Not to mention the Beattie Well Tanks and several Terriers. 

 

Whether the Swanage Railway will contemplate restoring her to working order remains to be seen.

 

John

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Sorry, what is going on with the NRM, giving away historical assets to private trusts. Do we the owners (taxpayers) get any say in this?

Much as I like and respect the Swanage Railway, I don't see why they should be gifted state assets.

What next Green Arrow is rather similar to Flying Scotsman, so we'll gift it to the GCR/NYMR?

We don't need all of King Arthur, Nelson and a Schools, so we'll give two of them to their respective custodians...?

We only need one Deltic so we'll give one away.

Oh and we don't need both a King and a Castle....

 

The NRM acquired the T3 for a reason, it was deemed historically appropriate. Why has this changed?

It is a unique locomotive, and the only Adams loco in the NRM, so a real loss.

 

I'm all for locos being loaned out and properly looked after, but retaining ownership by the NRM at least allows displays to be rotated, ensures standards of preservation, and maintains the breadth of the collection as a whole.

Absolutely agree! The NRM does these things without consultation, discussion or accountability. However, the NRM didn't acquire the T3 for a reason. It was preserved long before the NRM was dreamt of. It was preserved before the Clapham Museum, although it was displayed there. It is not appropriate for such artefacts to be given to working railways. A loan, with guarantees as to covered display, as used to be done by the NRM, is fine. However, our national museum, stuffed full of concessions, gift stalls and cake trollies, has done this sort of thing before but on a less obvious scale. The prototype Mk2 coach (which had a moth infestation) was given to the mid-Norfolk Railway. As the first of a new cutting edge design - the monocoque body on B4 bogies - designed and built at Swindon it tells a vital story from the last decades of that town's railway works and would be a perfect exhibit for that museum. Preserved railways have a different set of priorities to museums. They need stock to run in order to earn its keep, the precise opposite of the care and conservation which museum artefacts require. I stress that this is no criticism of the Swanage Railway - they have just been given a very nice present.  (CJL)

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This is very disturbing. What exactly are the Swanage Railway going to do with it? It will cost a lot of money to create a suitable museum space to exhibit the loco. They have nowhere to put it at the moment, I believe.

 

Incidentally, I'm thinking of building a new rockery in my back garden. I wonder if the British Museum would donate the Elgin Marbles to me?

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Wait for tomorrow when they will announce they are building a baggage van style body for one of the 33's to act as a hidden motor to push it up and down ;)

I hope the NRM would specify covered accommodation as part of the deal. It strikes me they have a lot on the financial plate with the Bunch Moguls to restore and get earning to pay for their hire so this does seem a little odd when there is no covered space to display it. The goods shed at Swanage is an important repair shop and the Corfe one is already full of exhibits.

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I was about to post that that loco would have made a nice Locomotion commission - but clearly not now.

 

It's not as if the NRM has a constant stream of old engines coming in - it has what it has when it comes to steam and it's going to be a few years before any modern stock make it to the National Collection if at all given their ownership differs from all the nationalised stock the NRM has now.

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Yes I hope the engine has gone to a good home unlike some which the NRM has given away which are in a poor state, or have been scrapped such as a GWR coach and the LNWR steam brakedown crane which was saved at the last minuet from been scrapped.

 

If it is going to be steamed again how much will have to be replaced such as the boiler/firebox etc as the engine most likely was in a very poor state when it was withdrawn for the second time as it was in the scrap lines when WWII started, and was returned to use because of the engine shortages so most likely in 1945 it was in a very poor condition.

 

Also when (if) the new NRM outpost is built at Leicester North there will be more room to put the collection under cover so there will be less need to give these items away, and people saying it is coming home because it shouldn't be in York as it never worked in that area have to remember it is called the NRM so covers all the railways in this country and not just the ones in that area. 

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Don't panic, I don't think the full facts have surfaced yet - give it time, I'd wait 'till tomorrow is over - I'm just an old cynic :sungum: .

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We don't know all the caveats of the deal so some of the doom laden posts are speculation ;)

It is at least an appropriate location and one of the railways with a natural visitor base as it encompasses two popular tourist destinations.

If the furzebrook site had already been approved for a new stock storage area and sheds built then the Swanage goods shed would be available and make a really nice museum building.

That's all that concerns me but we don't know what's happening with all that at present as I haven't noticed anything in announcements in the members magazine.

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I went to the NRM last week for the first time in a few years.

What on earth is going on, as Chris says above there are three refreshment facilities, the great hall has greatly reduced the amount of exhibits for the sake of seating.

There is a Eurostar cab as well as a power car??!

The interesting section with all the odds and ends has hardly any information of what the items are and the once good bookshop is full of flying Scotsman tat, surprised they haven't got a stock of those tacky clocks!

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If the furzebrook site had already been approved for a new stock storage area and sheds built then the Swanage goods shed would be available and make a really nice museum building.

That's all that concerns me but we don't know what's happening with all that at present as I haven't noticed anything in announcements in the members magazine.

Isn't the Furzebrook site likely to be for stock storage only ? The original planning permission given to BP had a condition that the site had to be returned to Heathland when it was finished with, if the railway open a workshop there then it is an engineering facility rather than storage using the existing sidings. In the last magazine it was noted that the planning permission for the land behind Herston works had been renewed although there was the issue with a gas main as well as drainage.

 

I'll wait for a full anouncement as I would doubt the NRM would give something away without covered storage being on the cards.

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Isn't the Furzebrook site likely to be for stock storage only ? The original planning permission given to BP had a condition that the site had to be returned to Heathland when it was finished with, if the railway open a workshop there then it is an engineering facility rather than storage using the existing sidings.

.

Yes but like the goods shed at Swanage a lot of carriage running repairs, restoration and repainting can be done in a storage shed without heavy engineering equipment. I did a bit on 1361? , the maunsell, many years ago and they used to work on interiors in the sidings but heavy lifts etc would mean transfer to the main workshops at Herston.

 

I'll wait for a full anouncement as I would doubt the NRM would give something away without covered storage being on the cards.

Yes I agree, as I said above we don't know all the caveats yet ;) Edited by PaulRhB

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Yes but like the goods shed at Swanage a lot of carriage running repairs, restoration and repainting can be done in a storage shed without heavy engineering equipment. I did a bit on 1361 many years ago and they used to work on interiors in the sidings but heavy lifts etc would mean transfer to the main workshops at Herston.

 

Yes I agree, as I said above we don't know all the caveats yet ;)

I volunteer in the C&W in the goods shed at Swanage, although it's been some time since I've been able to do so (3+ hours away). The goods shed has been hosting some locomotive repainting recently so they certainly need more cover.

 

I note it doesn't give a timescale for movement so I wonder if the railway will announce some covered accommodation at the same time. :good:

 

At present it's stuffed and mounted, at least if it heads to the SR it has a decent chance of running again.

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I volunteer in the C&W in the goods shed at Swanage, although it's been some time since I've been able to do so (3+ hours away). The goods shed has been hosting some locomotive repainting recently so they certainly need more cover.

.

I used to nearly 30 years ago as a teenager!

Moved onto the S&T then another railway closer to home ;) Still a member of Swanage though :)

I think it's an excellent idea IF it can be displayed and protected I'm just a bit concerned about the amount they are taking on financially with the Bunch locos and Project Wareham.

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I used to nearly 30 years ago as a teenager!

Moved onto the S&T then another railway closer to home ;) Still a member of Swanage though :)

I think it's an excellent idea IF it can be displayed and protected I'm just a bit concerned about the amount they are taking on financially with the Bunch locos and Project Wareham.

Yep, I can remember, you, your brother, and dad :sungum: I can also remember, from before that, a certain Mr Bunch and his previous involvement, but we don't talk about that, but the present worries me, but fortunately I'm no longer a member. 

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Well I try to keep a low profile about that Western engine I painted bits for ;)

At least it must've made Dave Round happy !? A devout LNER man restoring an ex GWR loco. :scratchhead:

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